Someone is on a 'normal' standard tariff, why would they buy an MG4 in this example?

[4ND]

However would it not be also reasonable to expect the average Joe to do at least some research before plowing hundreds of pounds a month (or buying outright) into an EV?

lol in theory, but average joe is average joe.
Sometimes like common sense isn't so common.

 

[siteguru]

As I posted in another thread, the ICE equivalent to the MG4 is a petrol automatic Astra. Price for that is near as dammit the same as an MG4 SE SR. The efficiency of that vehicle won't be anywhere near 52 mpg.

In my case I ended up getting a free charge point (long story), so going for an EV was a no-brainer. Even on standard tariffs it's going to be a lot cheaper in p per mile.

 

[Thorpey]

Don't want the thread to go down BBC like propaganda trash.
That's the issue with arguments for and against EVs, the greenwashing cards come out.
Often by people who happily used ICE cars all of their lives for short trips rather than walking or catching a bus, and had/still have their yearly foreign holidays on their planes.

No, clearly you only care about money whereas I am more concerned about the environment. You can try to ignore it all you like eventually you will be forced into an EV!

 

[4ND]

No, clearly you only care about money whereas I am more concerned about the environment. You can try to ignore it all you like eventually you will be forced into an EV!

Rather a sweeping opening remark, but I don't really want to argue over greenwashing, but I guess it is a healthy state when people can have different opinions.

Did you 'care' about the environment for years and years if you used your ICE car for journeys when you could have gotten a bus or walked, or if you flew the world on those planes for nice foreign holidays?

Regard to being 'forced' into an EV: If I do it will be by my choice. Petrols will be around for years and years in one form or another given there are millions and millions on the roads now. And moreover, maybe it's not the most compelling EV argument to suggest non adopters will be 'forced' into them lol

In addition, you commented in a prior post how you 'would never drive a diesel again,'
1) Did you 'care' about the environment when you did and 2) Weren't we incentivised to the hilt to adopt those cars with their so-called 'wonder fuel' back in the late 90s, 00s? That one worked out well, huh. The same cars were we incentivised to buy (but I resisted), can see the owners now punished via charges for adopting the actual cars they were incentivised to buy lol. As another poster said regarding another issue, a Monty Python sketch
Incentives, free car tax, scrappage schemes etc etc sound eerily familiar.

 

[Ron61]

Can I just make an observation. It seems to me that everyone seems to think the price of petrol and diesel wont go up. Of course it's going up, my guess would be you'll see £2.25 a litre for petrol some time next year and maybe £2.56 for diesel. Opec have quite openly stated they want $110 a barrel.

Oil price forecasts predict $110 per barrel amid OPEC+ production cut

Add to that the falling value of the pound which is going to parity with the dollar and you'll get something like a 35% increase.

On top of that there are still a lot of oil burning power stations in the world, if they can get gas, coal, whatever they are going to start using a lot more oil.

 

[4ND]

Can I just make an observation. It seems to me that everyone seems to think the price of petrol and diesel wont go up. Of course it's going up, my guess would be you'll see £2.25 a litre for petrol some time next year and maybe £2.56 for diesel.

lol I hope not, as I put ESSO Supreme RON 99 in the three cars in our family!

It was actualy about $120 a barrel at its peak a few months ago. That gave us about £1.90 a litre.

 

[DB Go Rex]

I'm not sure where you are going with this one, is this your musing debate of whether you want to buy?

If you are going to buy a new car anyway, then I don't think there is a dispute.

Enviornmentally and ecomonically, there is argument against any new car vs the current Mini you gave as an example.

That's pretty much it.

I think you are arguing for the sake of it by the look it.

 

[4ND]

I'm not sure where you are going with this one, is this your musing debate of whether you want to buy?

If you are going to buy a new car anyway, then I don't think there is a dispute.

Enviornmentally and ecomonically, there is argument against any new car vs the current Mini you gave as an example.

That's pretty much it.

I think you are arguing for the sake of it by the look it.

Wrong again.
I'm not 'musing' I'm giving some sort of alternative argument in the light of Average Joe on a standard tariff and staying that way.

Seems like you're 'arguing for the sake of it'.

 

[4ND]

I seriously question 52mpg real world in a 1.5 Mini petrol.

Sounds like you've never owned a modern 1.5 MINI.
Each fill my Mrs clocks her mileage since the last fill, and keeps the receipt showing how many litres it took to fill up/reach the petrol pump click. I then divide the miles she did by the litres it took, then multiply that answer by 4.5409 to covert to mpg. Elementary my Dear Watson .
She has had post 50mpg for EVERY fill since she got it 1.5 years ago, even more so in the summer when she got an astonishing 62mpg once when it was very hot in the lovely summer. Her commute is ~ 25 miles there and 25 miles back, and twice a week 17 there and back.

Facts are stubborn things.

 

[DB Go Rex]

Sounds like she is a very steady driver.

Also sounds like your mind is made up.

 

[4ND]

Real world is more like 40-42mpg.

lol, no 'real world' is actually owning one and doing the calculations each week ?

 

[4ND]

Sounds like you've never owned a modern 1.5 MINI.
Each fill my Mrs clocks her mileage since the last fill, and keeps the receipt showing how many litres it took to fill up/reach the petrol pump click. I then divide the miles she did by the litres it took, then multiply that answer by 4.5409 to covert to mpg. Elementary my Dear Watson .
She has had post 50mpg for EVERY fill since she got it 1.5 years ago, even more so in the summer when she got an astonishing 62mpg once when it was very hot in the lovely summer. Her commute is ~ 25 miles there and 25 miles back, and twice a week 17 there and back.
(Edit: I should add she only puts super unleaded in it)
Facts are stubborn things.

 

[Paulie68]

When you think of it, if one hasn't a 'friendly' electricity kwh rate, and say have just got the standard default tariff (i.e like MILLIONS of the public has), it isn't really worth them buying a transportation pod.
For eg, a default British Gas standard tariff is, I think, now 54p per Kwh. So say this person has a Trophy with the 64Kwh pack. Then it costs 64 X 0.54 = £34.56 to charge from zero to 100%, for say a real world 250 mile range?
Now, my Mrs' 1.5 MINI Cooper gives a great 52 mpg regularly (by my own calculations, not the on board computer). So 52mpg = 11.43 miles per litre, so that's 22L per 250 miles (the probable real world range of a 100% charged, Trophy MG4). At say £1.62 per litre, 250 miles costs her about 22 X £1.62 = £35.64..... Almost exactly the same cost!! And of course it takes her about 60 seconds to fill (charge) her MINI for that range, as opposed to 7 or so hours.
So why would someone not only buy the 4, but also go to the expense and hassle of paying a solid £1000 on top of the car costs for a home charger, with the work done by the installation people, for negligible running cost gains, if they are like millions of people and on a standard default rate electric plan?
Granted you get free tax (for now), but faced with those calculations, why would someone opt for a transportation pod?

Have you driven one? or any EV? As a Mini Cooper will seem utterly crap afterwards! I used to drive high powered V8's and I'd never go back to any of them having driven EV's.

It takes me 40 seconds of my time to charge my car, 20 seconds to plug it in when I park it & 20 seconds to unplug it when I leave the next morning.

Also, lack of any local pollution, massive reduction in harmful CO2 emissions harming the climate.

Vastly reduced servicing costs.

Your figures are considerably off anyway as already pointed out.

Why are you referring to the car as a "transportation pod" are you trying to be derogatory?, because it's a far nicer driving experience than an ICE "Transportation Pod", especially a cramped, gloomy mini?

 

[SueH]

lol, no 'real world' is actually owning one and doing the calculations each week ?

Yes, and we EV drivers can do that too. We can make our own decisions as can you. In the meantime can you please stop making up scenarios of stupid people (average Joes I think you called them) not being sensible. We get it you are sceptical about EVs and you may express such opinions, but I am am also allowed to express mine, but I won't because they won't be very flattering about your posts on here. You come across like the guys who post on various forums that they think women's football is crap, but they certainly put a lot of effort into giving you their views. I think golf is a walk in the country spoilt, but I don't go online on to golfing forums to tell them that.

Good night.

 

[tsedge]

They are electric cars, not transportation pods.

I am buying one because they are a better form of car: far better driving experience with lower maintenance and always full when you leave home. They are safer, better performing, more spacious and far fewer moving parts and - with the MG4 - price competitive.

They are also cheaper to run than ICE which is still true now, especially with a night rate. In the long run electricity is going to get cheap again, whereas petrol and diesel won’t. But this is a bonus, not why I am getting one.

I am not persuaded they are better for the environment and that wasn’t a factor in my choice: it is just a better product.

Of course this is only my opinion, YMMV.

 

[Malcolm Anderson]

Here's a stat on average Joe's. 800,000 motorists a year break down because they run out of fuel. Lol.
More than 800,000 drivers a year run out of fuel
They also don't notice the poisons they are releasing as they drive around. To understand this better ice owners /average Joe's should drive into their garage close the door and sit in the car for say half an hour with the engine running and get a taste of what they force on the people and environment around them.
Londoners told to reduce physical activity on Friday due to pollution
Can any well informed person seriously ignore the increasing Climate anomalies in our modern world? I have Solar panels and I'm keeping my MG5 lr ex and wont be changing it for the new shape and instead have just ordered 10.5 KW house battery to be fitted before Xmas instead.

 

[Ian Key]

Just to throw my economic reason for buying my first EV into the discussion. At the moment I drive a 2.0 diesel which is 10 years old which I've owned for 6 years and because I'm only doing short journeys now I've retired it's not very fuel efficient, 32 mpg on average and at the moment the part ex value means I'm only loosing £3000 in depreciation.
I'm on an Economy 7 tariff which means I get 7 hours of electricity at 23p/kWh so I can do a full recharge in that time.
MG4: 61kW at 23p = £14 for 250 miles (ideal weather conditions) = 5p/mile
2.0 Focus: 13 gallons at £8.20 = £106 for 598 miles (motorway at 70mph) = 18p/mile
The Focus on short journeys never gets warm so is only doing 29 mpg (28p/mile) whereas the MG4 doesn't have to warm up.

 

[MoDolph]

Our LEAF has so far cost us around £75 per month over the 8 years (61,000 miles) that we have had it when looking at depreciation and fuel costs. This is due to the crazy used car market at the moment and the fact we have never paid to charge it since we get free charging at work.

The MG4 is not going to be anywhere near as good value I suspect. There are rumblings at work about charging to charge and the purchase price is more than twice as much. However, we are now hooked and wouldn't seriously consider switching back to ICE.

Our usage profile is perfectly suited to EV. We do several short trips every day:

1 mile to nursery
1 mile to work
1mile home at lunch
1mile to work
2 miles to ASDA
2 miles to nursery
1mile to home

That's 7 cold starts per day where the engine wouldn't even get hot. A diesel would have a blocked DPF within weeks and even a small petrol engine would suffer. Also, the car would never get warm inside whereas an EV can be preheated/defrosted in winter.

Yes we should be walking or using a bike but we are lazy.

The missus will only drive an automatic but I prefer a manual due to the quicker response due to always being in the correct gear. An EV gives you the best of both worlds. Automatic cars in the MG4 form factor are not as common as you might think.

Not visiting petrol stations is a big bonus. I sometimes try to explain it to people at work like this: "Imagine you could buy a mobile phone with a 1 week battery life that could charge in 3 minutes but you could only charge it at the supermarket and you had to stand next to it whilst it charged. Would you prefer that over what you have now?"

IMO, provided you can afford it, EV's are still worth a premium over ICE provided you have off street parking and don't need to charge away from home more than a handful of times per year.

 

[johnnyc]

Our LEAF has so far cost us around £75 per month over the 8 years (61,000 miles) that we have had it when looking at depreciation and fuel costs. This is due to the crazy used car market at the moment and the fact we have never paid to charge it since we get free charging at work.

The MG4 is not going to be anywhere near as good value I suspect. There are rumblings at work about charging to charge and the purchase price is more than twice as much. However, we are now hooked and wouldn't seriously consider switching back to ICE.

Our usage profile is perfectly suited to EV. We do several short tips every day:

1 mile to nursery
1 mile to work
1mile home at lunch
1mile to work
2 miles to ASDA
2 miles to nursery
1mile to home

That's 7 cold starts per day where the engine wouldn't even get hot. A diesel would have a blocked DPF within weeks and even a small petrol engine would suffer. Also, the car would never get warm inside whereas an EV can be preheated/defrosted in winter.

Yes we should be walking or using a bike but we are lazy.

The missus will only drive an automatic but I prefer a manual due to the quicker response due to always being in the correct gear. An EV gives you the best of both worlds. Automatic cars in the MG4 form factor are not as common as you might think.

Not visiting petrol stations is a big bonus. I sometimes try to explain it to people at work like this: "Imagine you could buy a mobile phone with a 1 week battery life that could charge in 3 minutes but you could only charge it at the supermarket and you had to stand next to it whilst it charged. Would you prefer that over what you have now?"

IMO, provided you can afford it, EV's are still worth a premium over ICE provided you have off street parking and don't need to charge away from home more than a handful of times per year.

That analogy about a mobile phone is perfect!

 

[4ND]

Yes, and we EV drivers can do that too. We can make our own decisions as can you. In the meantime can you please stop making up scenarios of stupid people (average Joes I think you called them) not being sensible. We get it you are sceptical about EVs and you may express such opinions, but I am am also allowed to express mine, but I won't because they won't be very flattering about your posts on here. You come across like the guys who post on various forums that they think women's football is crap, but they certainly put a lot of effort into giving you their views. I think golf is a walk in the country spoilt, but I don't go online on to golfing forums to tell them that.

Good night.

Rather than dissect your heightened and rather intense (but amusing) reply, I will simply address that I have no opinion on woman's football, as I have no interest or knowledge of it to comment. Whilst it does seems somewhat baffling how women's football has somehow found its way on to an mg4 forum, but that pales into insignificance compared to the irony of your final remark: 'I think golf is a walk in the country spoilt, but I don't go online on to golfing forums to tell them that.' No, you go on an MG4 forum and do it there ?