Interesting/worrying story from Scotland - ZS with no brakes.

[Ruislip Resident]

Where did he get that from?

Insert oil and gas industry sponsored right wing media outlet here . . .

Oil and gas industry sponsored media outlet

 

[Rolfe]

Oh, I can't get an EV as need to travel more than 100 miles before recharging.
I get nearly 300 miles, where did you get that from?

The misinformation is rife!

I had a friend who was absolutely convinced that if an EV driver wanted to drive beyond the range of his car, he had to take a hotel room and charge the car overnight. When I said no, I drove all the way to Brighton (from Scotland) in a day with three 30-45 minute charging stops, he showed me an information sheet about a Tesla which said it took 8 hours or something like that to charge on a "fast charger". Like he didn't believe me when I told him what my (SR) car was actually capable of and had actually done!

So I explained about DC as opposed to AC chargers, and batteries that charge so fast you scarcely have time to snatch a coffee, and he went completely quiet. I didn't even get a response.

People are weird.

 

[profdraper]

I had a friend who was absolutely convinced that if an EV driver wanted to drive beyond the range of his car, he had to take a hotel room and charge the car overnight. When I said no, I drove all the way to Brighton (from Scotland) in a day with three 30-45 minute charging stops, he showed me an information sheet about a Tesla which said it took 8 hours or something like that to charge on a "fast charger". Like he didn't believe me when I told him what my (SR) car was actually capable of and had actually done!

So I explained about DC as opposed to AC chargers, and batteries that charge so fast you scarcely have time to snatch a coffee, and he went completely quiet. I didn't even get a response.

People are weird.

Yes, and likely a direct result of the horseshit information published, re-published & 'developed' on social media. Like this story here, some better reserach might be required vs. just continuing to re-publish the stupid story ....

There's another one getting around just recently (I will not contribute to the BS by re-publishing), however it goes like this (together with the findings by people who took the trouble to followup & do some research /fact finding):

It goes that BYD EV batteries are catching on fire everywhere in China & its a huge disaster /cover-up everywhere, yadda, yadda ... The thing is that in the video purportedly showing this, some indentified that the car was in fact a deisel Range Rover & even followed up on the registration plates ... futher, the site reporting this was from an 'American' in suit & tie (dressed up in studio to appear 'authoritative), but in fact a background check was run on him & turns out he's a disgruntled South African who lived in China for a while & didn't like it so much ...

Also clearly a racist tone which tends to happen a lot when Anglos start talking about the (current) 'other'.... Seems that the West is increasingly upset (check out Germany & the US for example). and only recently starting to notice that the Chinese are walking all over this EV manufacturing, suppliing most companies, owning or part-owning many Western companies & even more infurating, actually doing a pretty good job of it.

We need to do better than lazy social media, & even worse, circulating the stuff. Clearly, the disinformation war is becoming increasingly dangerous - from Brexit, to Trump, to the recent Australian referendum (not to mention a range of swing-ultra right elections in the EU) - far too many actaually belive what might be published 'by anyone' on a platform like LazyFace.

 

[Ruislip Resident]

Yes, and likely a direct result of the horseshit information published, re-published & 'developed' on social media. Like this story here, some better reserach might be required vs. just continuing to re-publish the stupid story ....

There's another one getting around just recently (I will not contribute to the BS by re-publishing), however it goes like this (together with the findings by people who took the trouble to followup & do some research /fact finding):

It goes that BYD EV batteries are catching on fire everywhere in China & its a huge disaster /cover-up everywhere, yadda, yadda ... The thing is that in the video purportedly showing this, some indentified that the car was in fact a deisel Range Rover & even followed up on the registration plates ... futher, the site reporting this was from an 'American' in suit & tie (dressed up in studio to appear 'authoritative), but in fact a background check was run on him & turns out he's a disgruntled South African who lived in China for a while & didn't like it so much ...

Also clearly a racist tone which tends to happen a lot when Anglos start talking about the (current) 'other'.... Seems that the West is increasingly upset (check out Germany & the US for example). and only recently starting to notice that the Chinese are walking all over this EV manufacturing, suppliing most companies, owning or part-owning many Western companies & even more infurating, actually doing a pretty good job of it.

We need to do better than lazy social media, & even worse, circulating the stuff. Clearly, the disinformation war is becoming increasingly dangerous - from Brexit, to Trump, to the recent Australian referendum (not to mention a range of swing-ultra right elections in the EU) - far too many actaually belive what might be published 'by anyone' on a platform like LazyFace.

All true except the nonsense comments at the end.

 

[Rolfe]

Yes, and likely a direct result of the horseshit information published, re-published & 'developed' on social media. Like this story here, some better reserach might be required vs. just continuing to re-publish the stupid story ....

There's another one getting around just recently (I will not contribute to the BS by re-publishing), however it goes like this (together with the findings by people who took the trouble to followup & do some research /fact finding):

It goes that BYD EV batteries are catching on fire everywhere in China & its a huge disaster /cover-up everywhere, yadda, yadda ... The thing is that in the video purportedly showing this, some indentified that the car was in fact a deisel Range Rover & even followed up on the registration plates ... futher, the site reporting this was from an 'American' in suit & tie (dressed up in studio to appear 'authoritative), but in fact a background check was run on him & turns out he's a disgruntled South African who lived in China for a while & didn't like it so much ...

Also clearly a racist tone which tends to happen a lot when Anglos start talking about the (current) 'other'.... Seems that the West is increasingly upset (check out Germany & the US for example). and only recently starting to notice that the Chinese are walking all over this EV manufacturing, suppliing most companies, owning or part-owning many Western companies & even more infurating, actually doing a pretty good job of it.

We need to do better than lazy social media, & even worse, circulating the stuff. Clearly, the disinformation war is becoming increasingly dangerous - from Brexit, to Trump, to the recent Australian referendum (not to mention a range of swing-ultra right elections in the EU) - far too many actaually belive what might be published 'by anyone' on a platform like LazyFace.

There's a thread about this in General Chat, because someone started a derail about it in an entirely different thread when someone else mentioned the Dolphin, and it was split off.

BYD Dolphin: reports of battery fires in China

www.mgevs.com

Some decent debunking towards the end. I didn't know a car in that video had been identified as a diesel Range Rover though. That was what started the Luton airport fire of course, although everyone and his budgie are trying to blame an EV or at least a hybrid. Are you maybe getting two stories mixed up?

 

[luis]

Here we go again: another report - this time an older ZS EV model.

Electric car 'had mind of its own' as brakes 'failed' and it smashed into house

An electric car seemed to "have a mind of its own” when its brakes apparently failed and it smashed straight into the front of a house.

www.theargus.co.uk

Read the comments (and note the upvoted ones) if you want to confirm the anti EV media war is winning.

The journalist doesn't help either by generalising the single event from this thread:

The ordeal, which happened at about 4pm last Friday, October 20, comes amid reports of MG ZS > models in other parts of the country having brake failures.

Brakes can fail and also "senior moments" can happen. ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Surfdog]

Yet another non specific story that the gullible will swallow en masse. Note the common theme of playing the mental health card (£$€£$€!!!). No doubt a mechanic will prove the brake hydraulics are in order and fully operational leaving the only other option, as you stated of a "senior moment".

 

[securespark]

Happened to me once on a Jaaaaaguar. New rear tyre installed, the mechanic had left the flex hose in such a place that it was fouled by the tyre. Gradually wore it away until the hose split and fluid left the system. Long brake pedal that day.... I used the handbrake.

Aren't braking systems dual circuit?

So if one circuit fails, at least the other is still operative?

 

[DB Go Rex]

Other Scotland one.

 

[Rolfe]

I see the bold boy Brian also features in this knocking copy from the Guardian.

UK drivers make claims of ‘dangerous’ electric car faults

Motorists locked inside their cars, while an NHS doctor said her BMW iX accelerated to 65mph and then crashed

www.theguardian.com

The proliferation of these stories is inevitably going to lead to people who have had "senior moment" accidents trying to blame it on the car "going rogue" and hoping they'll get away with it.

 

[mg4mc]

There have always been these "runaway" stories, primarily they used to in automatic ICE vehicles of course. Press the wrong pedal, the opposite of what you expect to happen occurs, press it harder!
Often in reverse where your leg is thrown harder on to the accelerator as the car lurches backwards.

How many ICE cars have we seen in past driven into shops, off car parks, into docks etc.

 

[Rolfe]

Someone in another thread suggested it might be worse in EVs because you don't get the cue of the change in engine noise when you floor the accelerator. Which could be true, but as you say, it has happened in automatic ICE cars.

It's good to know about this, because at least if it seems to be happening to us, we know that the first thing we need to do is to check which pedal our foot is on.

 

[m4rmite]

I wonder how much people get paid to sell their anti ev stories.

 

[Rolfe]

By the Mail and the Sun? Probably enough to make it worth their while. And people who've looked into Brian's online history have found evidence of him making up stories. Also weird that he came here, posted once in a very hostile manner but didn't stay to explain what he thought happened and see if anyone could throw any light on it.

 

[Henny]

if i remember rightly there was another similar story in this forum from a year ago, he said he hit brake which failed into his house, people on here took the mick a bit .. i can‘t find the link to it though

found the link to it

Brakes failed

Anyone had their brakes fail? I’ve had it twice where when pushing the brake pedal it cancels the KERS but doesn’t engage the brakes. 2nd time was on our downward sloped driveway and ended up smashing into the house. MG customer service not taking this seriously. I was wondering if anyone else...

www.mgevs.com

Also

Brakes didn't work, auto assist didn't work, crashed!

Hi All, well we were loving our MG ZS EV, but we've had a low speed crash, and I tell you , the brakes didn't work! We'd already had some electronic weirdness: the console wasn't switching on, just stayed blank, and a couple of other electronic things went wrong, the lane warning system turned...

www.mgevs.com

and

High speed brake fail + ghost braking

Hi all, I've just seen some posts from @Bamboo and @RichRead about brake issues with their ZS EVs, thought I'd add our experience as well as this doesn't seem to be a small issue. We've got a 2021 ZS EV bought in June from new. For the first 7 months the car was fine. We'd noticed that...

www.mgevs.com

may be all unrelated faults but the similar ending

 

[mg4mc]

Well, the MG4 at least as the ability to disconnect the brake pedal from the wheel circuits - that is what it does when regen is enabled, otherwise the brakes would always engage along with regen.

The master cylinder is disconnected from the wheels and switched over to a dummy "load" whilst the car uses regen to brake. Once the dummy load exceeds the capacity of the regen, the master cylinder is reconnected to the wheels for additional normal braking.

It's not inconceivable that this could "go very wrong" is it?

 

[aserraric]

Well, the MG4 at least as the ability to disconnect the brake pedal from the wheel circuits - that is what it does when regen is enabled, otherwise the brakes would always engage along with regen.

The master cylinder is disconnected from the wheels and switched over to a dummy "load" whilst the car uses regen to brake. Once the dummy load exceeds the capacity of the regen, the master cylinder is reconnected to the wheels for additional normal braking.

It's not inconceivable that this could "go very wrong" is it?

Do you have any source for that? In my experience, regen happens when you let off the accelerator. When you apply the brake, regen may assist in braking, but the actual brakes will also engage.
Why would "brakes always engage with regen"? There is no technical reason for that.

 

[mg4mc]

Do you have any source for that? In my experience, regen happens when you let off the accelerator. When you apply the brake, regen may assist in braking, but the actual brakes will also engage.
Why would "brakes always engage with regen"? There is no technical reason for that.

I my experience gently pressing the brake pedal just increases the amount of regen from the lifted accelerator.

From the MG4 Systems Description and Operation manual...

Normal Braking During normal braking, the shut-off valve is energized and closed, and the brake fluid cannot flow to the caliper; meanwhile, the pedal simulator solenoid valve is energized and opened, the brake fluid flows to the simulator, and the driver's static pedal feel is provided by the pedal simulator. The master cylinder displacement sensor and the master cylinder pressure sensor monitor the driver's braking request at the same time, perform calculation through the built-in software model, and send the required pressure buildup request to the brushless motor. The brushless motor works to build up pressure for the four caliper wheel cylinders.

Regenerative Braking During regenerative braking, the shut-off valve is energized and closed, and the brake fluid cannot flow to the caliper; meanwhile, the pedal simulator solenoid valve is energized and opened, the brake fluid flows to the simulator, and the driver's static pedal feel is provided by the simulator. The master cylinder displacement sensor and the master cylinder pressure sensor monitor the driver's braking request at the same time, and perform calculation through the built-in software model. If the capacity of the motor meets the braking requirement, the brushless motor will not work.

Failure Braking Mode When the electrical module fails completely, the shut-off valve is normally open in the power-off state. The driver depresses the pedal to generate the braking pressure through the TMC, which builds up pressure for the four caliper wheel cylinders.

So, I was wrong, even normal braking is "simulated" drive-by-wire.

Only when a system failure is detected or there is a power failure is the master cylinder directly connected to the actual brakes.

 

[Tim Green]

One has to assume that the circuitry involved would not allow a transistor or mosfet going short circuit to shut the shut-off valve. It does sound rather a complicated system when simplicity is often the key to safety. I am wary of any interference in a hydraulic system on which my life depends, as hydraulic systems have proved themselves over many years to be very reliable.

 

[mg4mc]

It does sound rather a complicated system when simplicity is often the key to safety.

The price of implementing regen I think. I assume all EVs have similar systems.