Are ICE cars really cheaper than EVs ?

[Gomev]

Well of course they are....aren't they ?

Yes EVs are expensive, mostly, but I have been astounded by the price of new cars in general for some time. One of the many reasons I bought my first EV in 2020 was down to price. It was cheaper to my new ZS EV than to buy a Ford Focus, or any other mid-size family'ish' car with any sort of decent spec.
So how are things now. I have just been looking at a website which gives the list price for cars for company car tax purposes. No-one of course pays full list price but that's the same for EVS or ICE but I found it fascinating. I think we sometimes forget, or simply don't realise just how expensive new cars are now.

For example

Poverty spec Ford Focus base model no options selected - Focus 1.0L EcoBoost mHEV ST-Line 125PS - list price wait for it £29,330
Top spec no options added - Focus 1.0L EcoBoost mHEV Titanium X 155PS Auto £32,550

Vauxhall Astra again base spec no options added - Astra 1.2 Design 110PS Turbo £26.970
Top spec Astra no options added -1.2 Ultimate 130PS Turbo Auto £34,980

These aren't glamorous cars so are EVs really that expensive?

Have a play find some examples, select a car then variant via dropdowns and then click 'configure options' for the retail price.

Prices & Options

For finding out everything there is to know about company cars.

comcar.co.uk

 

[Anon70]

Some interesting numbers, from here

UK: average car price by type 2022 | Statista

As of March 2022, sport utility vehicles were the most expensive vehicle type in the United Kingdom, costing on average just over 38,000 British pounds.

www.statista.com

Also interesting that the Government insists that any car over £40,000 is an expensive (luxury) car and has been since 2017.

 

[MG Clive]

We're getting close to price parity now, and in a couple of years we'll be there, but even now the cheapest EVs are probably better cars than similar priced ICE cars, so for most people, I believe the choice comes down to how they perceive the charging problems, infrastructure, convenience etc.

 

[salty]

We're getting close to price parity now, and in a couple of years we'll be there, but even now the cheapest EVs are probably better cars than similar priced ICE cars, so for most people, I believe the choice comes down to how they perceive the charging problems, infrastructure, convenience etc.

Agree, and how much, they actually take notice of the utter shite, that's talked about EVs. Mostly may I add, by those that don't even have an EV. And apparently have no intention of ever getting one. They for some reason are usually the most vocal!

 

[siteguru]

We're getting close to price parity now, and in a couple of years we'll be there, but even now the cheapest EVs are probably better cars than similar priced ICE cars, so for most people, I believe the choice comes down to how they perceive the charging problems, infrastructure, convenience etc.

When I bought ERO (more than 2 years ago) I did a price check vs a similar-sized and specified ICE car ... namely a Vauxhall Astra Automatic ... the MG4 was cheaper.

 

[MG Clive]

the MG4 was cheaper.

And definitely a better car.

 

[T1 Terry]

Well of course they are....aren't they ?

Yes EVs are expensive, mostly, but I have been astounded by the price of new cars in general for some time. One of the many reasons I bought my first EV in 2020 was down to price. It was cheaper to my new ZS EV than to buy a Ford Focus, or any other mid-size family'ish' car with any sort of decent spec.
So how are things now. I have just been looking at a website which gives the list price for cars for company car tax purposes. No-one of course pays full list price but that's the same for EVS or ICE but I found it fascinating. I think we sometimes forget, or simply don't realise just how expensive new cars are now.

For example

Poverty spec Ford Focus base model no options selected - Focus 1.0L EcoBoost mHEV ST-Line 125PS - list price wait for it £29,330
Top spec no options added - Focus 1.0L EcoBoost mHEV Titanium X 155PS Auto £32,550

Vauxhall Astra again base spec no options added - Astra 1.2 Design 110PS Turbo £26.970
Top spec Astra no options added -1.2 Ultimate 130PS Turbo Auto £34,980

These aren't glamorous cars so are EVs really that expensive?

Have a play find some examples, select a car then variant via dropdowns and then click 'configure options' for the retail price.

Prices & Options

For finding out everything there is to know about company cars.

comcar.co.uk

A 1 ltr and a 1.2 ltr engine, how is that a comparison to even an MG4 51 ...... they are more like motorbike capacity engines and even a tad on the small side for that over here ..... they have 2.6ltr engines in jet skis and wave jumpers these days ...... a 1.0 ltr ICE would be ready for an engine swap on a drive from Syd to Perth, so there was a chance it would make it back home

T1 Terry

 

[siteguru]

But that's the way ICE engines are going over here now ... smaller capacity with highly efficient turbos to boost the power, so as to minimise as much as possible CO2 and other emissions.

Vauxhall Astra 1.2 Turbo: long-term test | Auto Express

Final report: a temperamental alarm doesn't dampen our impression of the new Vauxhall Astra hatch

www.autoexpress.co.uk

 

[mg4mc]

Cross posted...
Modern 1.2 l turbo engines are not the same as engines of yore. They are actually reasonably powerful for their size. F1 could get over 1000bhp out of 1.5 l

 

[T1 Terry]

Cross posted...
Modern 1.2 l turbo engines are not the same as engines of yore. They are actually reasonably powerful for their size. F1 could get over 1000bhp out of 1.5 l

I can just imagine the telemetry back to Honda and the techs tuning the engine on the fly as we travel to Perth from Sydney .... regular pit stops and an engine rebuild after 10 hrs or so of operation
You can get big power out of a small capacity engine, or you can have a larger capacity engine still functioning as the 100,000kms rolls over .... but you can't have both. The trucking companies over here learnt all about the great new high power smaller capacity diesel engines that were supposed to save on running costs ....... the end of life for the engine came a lot earlier than they expected and when the engines were pulled down for a rebuild, the scrap metal bin was wheeled around and in the majority of cases, they went back to the large capacity motor that didn't have to work so hard ..... the down time between engine replacements was greatly reduced leading to a more profitable operation, a lot of small time owner drivers went to the wall because these over stressed engines simply could not do the distances required to cover the initial outlay.

I often watch a You Tube channel "I do Cars" and he regularly strips down engines that have failed when they come into his shop ...... none of them have the miles we remember the less stressed engines delivering ....

T1 Terry

But that's the way ICE engines are going over here now ... smaller capacity with highly efficient turbos to boost the power, so as to minimise as much as possible CO2 and other emissions.

View attachment 34391

Vauxhall Astra 1.2 Turbo: long-term test | Auto Express

Final report: a temperamental alarm doesn't dampen our impression of the new Vauxhall Astra hatch

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Maybe a bit of R&D on better wind up clock springs to keep the emissions down at the tailpipe, the trade of is emissions of poor grammar from the driver's seat and the repeat use of words that can be fairly general purpose .... as a verb, adjective, noun and .... they are about the only breeds of words I remember these day

T1 Terry

 

[JohnV6]

I just bought a new unregistered ZV ES for £23k. It is the Trophy Long Range.
Massively discounted ahead of the new model.
Way cheaper than the equivalent ICE.

Other brands are also heavily discounting EVs in the uk

 

[WigglePig]

The reason I bought the MG5 in 2021 is that I had compared similarly-sized estate cars and the 5 came out significantly better on price (I paid £20k for mine.)

So yes, EVs can be cheaper than ICE but it varies wildly depending on what you want.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

2 years ago when seriously comparing the MG4 to other cars , the nearest comparisons I found were Golf tdi 2.0l. or some higher spec Hyundai's or Ford focus's. Comparing those prices/performance/equipment plus some secondhand prices, then insurances, servicing , running costs etc. No brainer.

 

[Gomev]

A 1 ltr and a 1.2 ltr engine, how is that a comparison to even an MG4 51 ...... they are more like motorbike capacity engines and even a tad on the small side for that over here ..... they have 2.6ltr engines in jet skis and wave jumpers these days ...... a 1.0 ltr ICE would be ready for an engine swap on a drive from Syd to Perth, so there was a chance it would make it back home

T1 Terry

This reinforces the point I was trying to make.
I didn't draw any comparisons intentionally, I merely pointed out that ICE vehicles are not cheap like many think they are. Especially when you add in that most EVs bar the cheapest of cheapest (Dacia Spring e.g.) are well specced so comparison to the base poverty spec is usually inadequate.

 

[Rolfe]

2 years ago when seriously comparing the MG4 to other cars , the nearest comparisons I found were Golf tdi 2.0l. or some higher spec Hyundai's or Ford focus's. Comparing those prices/performance/equipment plus some secondhand prices, then insurances, servicing , running costs etc. No brainer.

My thought processes also.

 

[Ferretusmaximus]

However ... cost of ownership is much more interesting. BEV prices are heavily front-loaded. An ICE car can easily come in at £1,000 a service every year. Not to mention the price of fuel (despite a Chancellor who doesn't understand the idea of net zero).

 

[gazza487]

I bought my first off the boat SE near 2 years ago as an ex demo with 1200 miles on the clock. It was 22k

The 1.5 Kia I wanted was 1k more (second hand with around 5k miles on iirc) but would cost extra on fuel and tax. Here we are.

 

[Archev]

Agree, and how much, they actually take notice of the utter shite, that's talked about EVs. Mostly may I add, by those that don't even have an EV. And apparently have no intention of ever getting one. They for some reason are usually the most vocal!

Aye, just yesterday I was asked why on earth I was faffing about plugging my car in and having to wait for ages before I could go anywhere. Hadn’t I noticed this ev nonsense was over? Every journey’s a worry about endless planning for range and charging because most of the very few chargers are broken. He has to tow a trailer and it’s well known evs don’t have the ability. And, and, and ……

, aye, it’s a sair fecht !

 

[T1 Terry]

I was checking out a charging station at the local shopping centre and the local "know it all" walked up with a big booming voice so everyone within 500 mtrs could hear him, " I wouldn't bother if I were you, they are just fad and the general public is already waking it to the huge con" so in just as loud a voice I replied "So you won't be buying an EV while they are so cheap and running one is cheap as chips?" The reply, "Not likely, I was a wake up to the con from the beginning" so I replied " I hope all your friends are listening to your sage advice, at least until there are more charging sites than fuel pumps, I haven't had to queue up yet to get a charge and I'd like it to stay that way"
He then quietly asked, "What do you mean more charging sites than fuel pumps?" In the same loud voice "Think you best look around a bit more, when was the last time you saw a fuel bowser in a shopping centre? " ....a stunned look .....then I mentioned I'd seen very old fuel pumps outside shops in country towns and they were worth quite a bit of money now as collectables ...... I guess that must have been about the time they were starting to see more horseless carriages than horses and thought they'd cash in on the new technology ........ He walked away not quite as smart arsed as he'd walked up

T1 Terry

 

[OriginalBigAl]

We are all different so it would be foolish to try to formulate a standard response to such questioning , but this is a forum, so people , lets get inventive . What would you say..... first, factual and second , oooh! I wish I'd said that.
At the time of writing I'm favouring the drama queen response of : breaking down crying and emotionally saying you're right , I didn't think or realise , I was lied to, what can I do , please help me before hugging the aggressor and wiping your runny nose on their shoulder. There , everyone's happy.