Calling all Sparkies! Electrical Question (not EV related)

[Deleted member 823]

OK, so I hope no-one minds me asking this on here as I've seen some well informed electrical answers So, I have a short adapter cable (30cm-ish!) with a domestic plug on one end and a commando socket on the other. This is so I can connect it to an extension lead for charging the leisure battery in my camper, but the cable is a couple of meters shorter than I want it. I've bought some cable so that I can make the adapter cable up to 3-4m long. The text on the side of the existing adapter cable reads: (as far as I can see):

<VO5> (could be VD5)
HO5VV-F
3G1.5MM2

The commando socket has this on a sticker:
16A - 6H
200 - 250V
50-60Hz 2P+E
EN60309

So I went to buy a new cable, the nearest I could find reads:

3 core arctic flex 1.5mm2
BS6004:2012

So my question is, is the new cable compatible? I've done some reading online and can't determine if the EN and BS standards are compatible.

Many thanks in advance

 

[Deleted member 7316]

The 13A domestic plug is your limiter and contrary to the description should not be made to draw 13A continuously

1.5mm2 is adequate for 13A at the limited length described. The standard (commando to commando) hookup lead must be 25m long and 2.5mm2 CSA to be compliant. The CSA size is more than the basic requirement for 16A but provides headroom for prolonged used and long length.

If I had a choice I would prefer 1.75mm2 cable but this appears to be non existent generally. 2.5mm2 is night on impossible to fit in a 13A plug safely.

And yes, the new cable is compatible because it is an improvement over the original. HO5VV is not rated for harsh environments, "arctic" should be although the term is somewhat mis-used as it has no statutory meaning

 

[Jomarkh]

Sounds good, this is the numbers on my 16A commando to 13A socket cable

 

[djenson]

OK, so I hope no-one minds me asking this on here as I've seen some well informed electrical answers So, I have a short adapter cable (30cm-ish!) with a domestic plug on one end and a commando socket on the other. This is so I can connect it to an extension lead for charging the leisure battery in my camper, but the cable is a couple of meters shorter than I want it. I've bought some cable so that I can make the adapter cable up to 3-4m long. The text on the side of the existing adapter cable reads: (as far as I can see):

<VO5> (could be VD5)
HO5VV-F
3G1.5MM2

The commando socket has this on a sticker:
16A - 6H
200 - 250V
50-60Hz 2P+E
EN60309

So I went to buy a new cable, the nearest I could find reads:

3 core arctic flex 1.5mm2
BS6004:2012

So my question is, is the new cable compatible? I've done some reading online and can't determine if the EN and BS standards are compatible.

Many thanks in advance

Not an electrician but I do prefer H07RN-F or H07BQ F-Series cable over "Artic" flex for a number of reasons, but the arctic flex would work too. Just make sure you're not going to be pulling more than 10amps continuously.

 

[Deleted member 823]

OK, first off, thank you to you all for taking the time to reply, much appreciated I'll address some of the points raised:

• The cable length in current "adapter cable" (13A domestic plug to commando) is about 30cm. Based on what's been written above I'd like to increase to 3-4m. My hook-up lead is 25m long, so total length will be 28-29m.
• The adapter cable is indoors connected to a recently (10 years-ish) installed plug socket and consumer board in my garage. It won't be ever used outdoors, even when it's made up to 3-4m with the "arctic" cable. The hook-up cable is used outdoors and is fully extended when I charge the leisure battery at home (and also on site, even if it's a short distance, I always fully uncoil it).
• About amperage, I have no idea what this will be pulling (or how to measure it) but in terms of duration it can be left plugged in and turned on overnight.

So, with all this, is it safe for me to make up a 3-4m length? I think the consensus is yes, but I'd just like to be sure. Again, thanks for all the insight

 

[Gomev]

OK, so I hope no-one minds me asking this on here as I've seen some well informed electrical answers So, I have a short adapter cable (30cm-ish!) with a domestic plug on one end and a commando socket on the other. This is so I can connect it to an extension lead for charging the leisure battery in my camper, but the cable is a couple of meters shorter than I want it. I've bought some cable so that I can make the adapter cable up to 3-4m long. The text on the side of the existing adapter cable reads: (as far as I can see):

<VO5> (could be VD5)
HO5VV-F
3G1.5MM2

The commando socket has this on a sticker:
16A - 6H
200 - 250V
50-60Hz 2P+E
EN60309

So I went to buy a new cable, the nearest I could find reads:

3 core arctic flex 1.5mm2
BS6004:2012

So my question is, is the new cable compatible? I've done some reading online and can't determine if the EN and BS standards are compatible.

Many thanks in advance

Wouldn't it be easier to buy or make a new extension lead instead of messing about with the 3 pin/commando adapter. Or is that too obvious ?

 

[Deleted member 823]

Maybe @Gomev but I ain't made of money sadly. A length of cable is considerably cheaper for me.

 

[Deleted member 7316]

As I said "arctic" has no direct meaning in terms of British Standards or ISO but in general is taken to be cold resistant, if I had a worry it is that it may not be true for cheap Chinese cable of suspect branding. If the gland of the commando socket is loose on the cable build up the cable diameter a bit, self amalgamating tape is better than electricians tape.

Bear in mind that the commando plug/socket is only rated at IP44, it is NOT waterproof so protect from rain and in particular standing water

If all you are doing is charging a leisure battery then the most it would draw even with a flat battery is a few amps so no you would not be overloading the circuit. However to protect the battery do NOT leave it permanently on charge. It depends on parasitic losses but 4 hours a week to 8 hours a month should be enough, a seven day timer or if not a mk1 digit (finger) linked to a regular alarm on the phone. Good Flooded cell Lead Acid batteries can be stored for at least 6 months between top up charges if left disconnected.

The problem with devices of mixed standards (13A domestic plug vs 16A CEE 2P+E Socket) is making sure they are only used appropriately. I used exactly the same setup for a couple of years before I got round to fitting an outside 16A bulkhead socket.

The IP ratings explained:
�

First digit		Mechanical	Second digit		Liquid
0		No protection	0		No protection
1		Protected against solid objects over 50mm, e.g. accidental touch by hands	1		Protected against vertically falling drops of water e.g. condensation
2		Protected against solid objects over 12mm, e.g. fingers	2		Protected against direct sprays of water up to 15 ° from the vertical
3		Protected against solid objects over 2.5mm, e.g. tools & wires	3		Protected against direct sprays of water up to 60 ° from the vertical
4		Protected against solid objects over 1mm, e.g. wires, nails etc.	4		Protected against water splashed from all directions, limited ingress permitted
5		Protected against dust limited ingress, not harmfull deposits	5		Protected against low pressure jets of water from all directions, limited ingress permitted
6		Totally protected against dust	6		Protected against strong jets of water e.g. on ships deck, limited ingress permitted
n/a	n/a	n/a	7		Protected against the effects of temporary immersion between 15cm and 1m. Duration of test 30 minutes
n/a	n/a	n/a	8		Protected against long periods of immersion under pressure

 

[Deleted member 823]

Thanks again all

@Hairyfool - I only charge the leisure battery this way occasionally, usually before a day out. I tend to do it overnight as I turn the fridge on at the same time so it's nice and cold for the morning. The battery won't always keep the fridge running overnight so I leave it hooked up. Of course, when at a site it's always connected (without what I've described as the adapter cable, just my 25m hook-up cable) so we have power to the van.

This is so technical, way beyond me, but I really appreciate the input. Thanks everyone.

 

[Gomev]

Maybe @Gomev but I ain't made of money sadly. A length of cable is considerably cheaper for me.

Wouldn't something like this be sufficient. Plug into socket in garage, then plug your adapter into it. You don't have to use all 10m just unwind it.

Masterplug 13A Pro-XT Weatherproof Trailing Socket High Visibility Cable - 10m | Wickes.co.uk

Masterplug 13A Pro-XT Weatherproof Trailing Socket High Visibility Cable - 10m

www.wickes.co.uk

 

[Deleted member 7316]

Thanks again all

@Hairyfool - I only charge the leisure battery this way occasionally, usually before a day out. I tend to do it overnight as I turn the fridge on at the same time so it's nice and cold for the morning. The battery won't always keep the fridge running overnight so I leave it hooked up. Of course, when at a site it's always connected (without what I've described as the adapter cable, just my 25m hook-up cable) so we have power to the van.

This is so technical, way beyond me, but I really appreciate the input. Thanks everyone.

You don’t say what vehicle but in general motorhome/campervan fridges will never run on the leisure battery alone. They draw several amps at 12v and would flatten the battery within a few hours. For this reason the relay to power it from 12v is disabled if the engine is not running. Even the cool box type are a bit too much for overnights on the battery.

Even the combination of charging the battery and powering the fridge is not going to be that high. It is on site when driving kettles, water heaters or heating that the really heavy load occurs. Yes it can be a bit complicated but being aware of what power you are using is important on some sites where they limit the power you can use. I was on one that was restricted to 6A which meant turning off the heater to boil water and the like.

 

[Gomev]

You don’t say what vehicle but in general motorhome/campervan fridges will never run on the leisure battery alone. They draw several amps at 12v and would flatten the battery within a few hours. For this reason the relay to power it from 12v is disabled if the engine is not running. Even the cool box type are a bit too much for overnights on the battery.

Even the combination of charging the battery and powering the fridge is not going to be that high. It is on site when driving kettles, water heaters or heating that the really heavy load occurs. Yes it can be a bit complicated but being aware of what power you are using is important on some sites where they limit the power you can use. I was on one that was restricted to 6A which meant turning off the heater to boil water and the like.

Our touring caravan the fridge ran off the battery, or mains or gas. We cooled it on mains before travel - as I suspect @ARealHuman is aiming to do here, then on the battery whilst travelling (connected to car for charging - twin electrics), and mains or gas on site depending on whether we had a hook up.

 

[Deleted member 7316]

Which is why I didn't include them in the post, my 1st sentence is the same as you describe as the fridge will only run on 12v if the engine is running even when the caravan has a battery itself . The towing 12S connector has 2 +12v supply pins, one a general battery charge and 12v acc supply and the other for the caravan fridge which, if installed correctly, will be protected by an alternator activated or voltage sensing relay. With the engine running the relay will activate and power the fridge.

A VSR obviates the need to pick up the alternator output for the dashboard warning light and stops the caravan fridge discharging the car battery. The problem is too many cowboy towbar installers didn't understand the importance of the distinction between the two pins with the result that the fridge would flatten the car battery such that it would not start.

 

[Deleted member 823]

Sorry for the delay in replying, not been on here in a few days. Anyway, I'll be making up my cable this weekend so I can keep the fridge on overnight and get it cols for trips the following day, as well as charging the leisure battery! Thanks all

 

[TonyP2020]

I hope you got/get your extension cable sorted OK.
As others have said above. the limiting factor with 13A plugs/Sockets is the 13A fuse, so a bigger cable size above 1.25mm is rarely required, so 1.5mm is OK.
You can get 1.5mm cable into the connections of a 13A plug, but I would use a good quality plug, such as Masterplug, and make it as tidy as possible.
Most 13A plugs and 13A sockets have a very low Ingress Protection, even moulded 13A plugs can allow water into the fuse holder if the plug is in contact with standing water.
If you were going to use an extension cable for charging the MG using a Granny charger (with a 13A plug), then the cable size would have to be 2.5mm all the way to the socket that the 13A plug of the granny charger plugs into.
This is in the car handbook and allows for a 10A current to flow for many hours.