Drink / Drive over the limit

[johnb80]

I have never been a drinker so this doesnt really affect me directly but the legal situation is different to what many people think. I regularly watch Blackbelt Barrister, he's really good at explaining the law, here's his analysis of Drink-Drive related matters, well worth a watch (and a subscribe to his channel).

 

[maskull]

I only drink water or soft drinks when driving and don't drink the night before if I know I'm driving next morning . Also leave car key at home if I'm going out for a drink . So , hopefully , I should be OK

 

[Rolfe]

It would be a very strange situation that would see someone asleep in his bed in a parked campervan lifted for drunk in charge.

 

[maskull]

It would be a very strange situation that would see someone asleep in his bed in a parked campervan lifted for drunk in charge.

The issue is that , if the driver was on a bender the night before , he or she may decide to drive off in the morning and still be over the limit .

 

[johnb80]

The issue is that , if the driver was on a bender the night before , he or she may decide to drive off in the morning and still be over the limit .

That could alsoi be true if he was in a hotel bed for the night and drive off the next day. It seems a really odd viewpoint the law seemingly has, youre in a car, youre over the limit, you MIGHT drive off so we'll nick you. How is that different to your car can do 90 mph, youre in a 30 limit, you MIGHT drive over the limit so we'll nick you for that?

Don't get me wrong, I don't approve of drink drivers, I really feel the limit should be zero but I feel quite strongly that this situation is wrong, youre in a layby in your motorhome, had a glass or two of wine before going to bed for the night and plod can nick you even though you haven't attempted and have no intention of intending to drive. What happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty?

 

[maskull]

I think that the reasoning is that having the keys in your possesion establishes an intent to drive in the eyes of the law . Probably the same reasoning that carrying a loaded gun in public shows an intent , or preparedness , to use it .
As I mentioned previously , I don't drink when I know I'm using my car in the morning . This is because,on average , one unit of alcohol takes one hour to leave the bloodstream on average . So ,even if staying at a hotel , most people aren't fit to drive until midday after a bender

 

[Rolfe]

The issue is that , if the driver was on a bender the night before , he or she may decide to drive off in the morning and still be over the limit .

That's true of anyone at all who is in bed at night after having been on a bender the previous evening. You have to actually commit the offence before you're guilty of it. Is being asleep in bed in a campervan, while over the limit, with the keys on your bedside table, an offence worthy of prosecution? Any more so than being asleep in your bed at home in a similar condition with the keys to your car on your bedside table?

Technically the first may be seen as being "in charge of a motor vehicle" while the second may not. But proportionality and public interest and all that. What might have happened to prompt the police to take action against campervanman?

 

[salty]

The only thing I agree with in that video is,
of you are over the drink/drive limit you are done, simple's, end of. But if you are done sat in your car, on your drive or the example of being in a motor home asleep or whatever, and you get done, then that's just laughable. IMO.

 

[salty]

The issue is that , if the driver was on a bender the night before , he or she may decide to drive off in the morning and still be over the limit .

Yep, but the important word there is "May"
decide to drive off, until they actually do, if they do, and they are over, then how the hell can they be done. You could apply that scenario to any situation. For example, your doing a bit of DIY in your garden, you've got a hammer in your hand, therefore you "May" decide to smash someone's head in who's walking past your house. Ok probably a bit daft, scenario, but the same principle. ?

 

[Rolfe]

I can't think of a reasonable situation where the campervan scenario would be applicable. Where did the man get drunk? If he drank the alcohol right there before going to bed, where's the danger? What makes a cop think he's going to drive off? If he was at the pub and walked back, or got a lift, or got a taxi, where's the problem? Sounds like a responsible citizen. If he drove back, do him for that!

I mean, why would a cop knock on the door of a campervan while the occupants were asleep and breathalise someone anyway?

 

[maskull]

Chances are if you're asleep in a motorhome the police aren't going to bother you as long as you are legally parked . Asleep in your car ?...maybe they will .
Many years ago I was in the pub with my mates . One of them had had quite enough to drink and decided to leave at about 10 . I knew he had driven to the pub and advised to get a bus or walk home as it was only a mile away , which he agreed to . I left the pub at closing time and had a peek around the corner to check if he had left the car behind . The driver's door was open and his feet were sticking out . He had tried to drive home and passed out from the drink ,so I drove him home , in his car , even though I was over the limit myself. I delivered him to his father and walked the 3 miles to my home . On reflection I should have just taken his keys to prevent him driving when he came to ,which he surely would have .
But my main point is , if your going to have a drink , don't take your car keys or car ...remove the temptation

 

[Rolfe]

Asleep in your car is asking for it, and I would say definitely one of the scenarios the law was written to cover. I'd heard that moving to the passenger seat would put you in the clear but I don't see why it would if there's nobody else around. The question also must arise, how did your car get to where it is, when you were drunk as a skunk? Also the probability that you might wake up, feel a bit better and decide to continue on your way must be fairly high.

On the other hand I can't imagine why the police would be even faintly interested in whether someone asleep in bed in a campervan (presumably undressed and in nightwear) is drunk or not, unless they had evidence that he'd driven in that condition already, in which case that would be the offence.

I can think of an intermediate scenario. We have a thread on camping in the MG4, using an airbed in the load bed of the car. Suppose someone parked up, set up the car for an overnight sleep and got into his/her sleeping bag, then couldn't sleep and had a whisky nightcap or something to aid the nodding-off process? Some copper gets nosy about the parked car, then finds the driver in the back in a sleeping bag, but smelling of drink? I think you might need a good lawyer.

 

[Archev]

Yep, but the important word there is "May"
decide to drive off, until they actually do, if they do, and they are over, then how the hell can they be done. You could apply that scenario to any situation. For example, your doing a bit of DIY in your garden, you've got a hammer in your hand, therefore you "May" decide to smash someone's head in who's walking past your house. Ok probably a bit daft, scenario, but the same principle. ?

I was making a mint offering haircuts to folk walking by a couple of weeks ago as I trimmed the hedge. I offered to crop a cop but was arrested on a trim scam slam.

 

[johnb80]

Asleep in your car is asking for it, and I would say definitely one of the scenarios the law was written to cover. I'd heard that moving to the passenger seat would put you in the clear but I don't see why it would if there's nobody else around. The question also must arise, how did your car get to where it is, when you were drunk as a skunk? Also the probability that you might wake up, feel a bit better and decide to continue on your way must be fairly high.

So by the fact I'm driving a Tesla Plaid that can do 0-60 in less than 2 seconds and nigh on 180 mph it's a fair assumption I'm going to do that driving through a 30 limit and should get a speeding ticket just in case?

On the other hand I can't imagine why the police would be even faintly interested in whether someone asleep in bed in a campervan (presumably undressed and in nightwear) is drunk or not,

Could this driver not wake up and feel a bit better and decide to continue on their way too?

unless they had evidence that he'd driven in that condition already, in which case that would be the offence.

I still feel the should be caught in the act, circumstantial evidence alone shouldn't be enough.

I can think of an intermediate scenario. We have a thread on camping in the MG4, using an airbed in the load bed of the car. Suppose someone parked up, set up the car for an overnight sleep and got into his/her sleeping bag, then couldn't sleep and had a whisky nightcap or something to aid the nodding-off process? Some copper gets nosy about the parked car, then finds the driver in the back in a sleeping bag, but smelling of drink? I think you might need a good lawyer.

I really feel the law has got this wrong in a big way.

 

[ozzz]

Hi interesting question, but the officer would have to prove intent to drive surly with body cam images showing u asleep wrapped up in a blanket or in the bed of a camper wouldn’t show intent to drive at that time.

 

[johnb80]

Hi interesting question, but the officer would have to prove intent to drive surly with body cam images showing u asleep wrapped up in a blanket or in the bed of a camper wouldn’t show intent to drive at that time.

Not according to the law as per bbb’s explanation.

 

[salty]

Not according to the law as per bbb’s explanation.

Then the Laws an Ass, in this case. ?

 

[JimD]

Just butting in to say that if a police officer arrests or reports you for a crime, you are NOT guilty of it at that point - that's for the court to decide.

The police officer just has to suspect a crime has been committed, which in the scenarios mentioned would be drunk in charge.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

I assumed that if you are sleeping it off in the car/ van /camper and are on private land with the owners consent ie pub car park then that was OK. On public land (side of the road , public car park ) then that was being in charge of the vehicle and on dodgy territory. There will be grey areas like an industrial unit car park which is open to the public (but private) which could leave you open to trespass and if it has free access to the public road be classed as public by the police.
As JimD states I believe the offence is "Drunk in charge " which of course omits the driving bit.

 

[Ferretusmaximus]

That's true of anyone at all who is in bed at night after having been on a bender the previous evening. You have to actually commit the offence before you're guilty of it. Is being asleep in bed in a campervan, while over the limit, with the keys on your bedside table, an offence worthy of prosecution? Any more so than being asleep in your bed at home in a similar condition with the keys to your car on your bedside table?

Technically the first may be seen as being "in charge of a motor vehicle" while the second may not. But proportionality and public interest and all that. What might have happened to prompt the police to take action against campervanman?

"in charge of a motor vehicle" is indeed the point. Say the adults have a right skinfull and are sleeping merrily in a motorhome when is it t-boned by an artic with an over-the-hours driver at the wheel. If the rest of the family is also in the motorhome with say a young baby or a small child will the adults be in a fit state to save the youngsters... just saying.