Rollercoaster road to new MG4

[Rolfe]

Until 31st March (eleven days ago) I knew next to nothing about electric cars except that my next car would be one. I'm collecting my new MG4 SV on Thursday.

My existing car is a 2009 Golf GTi Mk6 with 135,000 miles on the clock and bodywork issues. In December an idiot BMW driver pulled out of a side street and hit me, damaging the front wing and driver's door, also scratching the alloy wheel. First he said he'd pay for the repair and I was OK about that because I didn't want to risk the car being written off by the insurance company (it goes like a bat out of hell), but when he heard the cost - £1,600 - he backtracked, so the insurance became involved.

Insurance said that's fine, it's repairable, but we can't do it till 22nd March. So I just drove around in this bashed car till then. On 22nd March they carted it off and said, soon have that back to you all fixed. The courtesy car arrived, all fine. Then on 31st March an email arrived out of the blue saying they'd decided to write the car off. They'd give me £4,000 (so a fair bit more than it would have cost to repair!) and please fill in a transfer of ownership and hand back the courtesy car.

I panicked. That was going to leave me stranded with nothing. I told them I wanted the car back. The insurance said they'd give me £2,674 if I wanted to keep the car, and I said OK then, having little option at that point or so I thought, and went to collect it.

However the seed had been planted. About 20 minutes of googling that evening convinced me that the MG4 was the stand-out candidate to replace the Golf. I was mindful that the Golf needed four new summer tyres about now, and was it worth it given that I'd been thinking about changing the car next year anyway? Also, how much would it take to get it through its MOT in November this time? I spent the rest of the evening watching reviews of the MG4 on YouTube.

After the weekend I went to talk to my own garage man and he said, well, if you're going to change the car, don't get it repaired because that wouldn't increase its trade-in value by as much as it cost. I was still thinking it would take weeks - probably months - to get hold of an MG4, but I could run the car on its winter tyres till then (this is Scotland after all), and its road tax was good till August. So I thought I'd get the process started and booked a test drive on 8th April, expecting that even if I wanted one I'd still be in the Golf until about July.

I loved the car and decided on that course of action. Order placed for MG4 SE basic model in Holborn Blue. I was gobsmacked when the dealer said, would Monday 17th April be OK for you? No waiting list. Apparently they're selling like hot cakes so the dealership has been ordering them on spec, knowing that they'll sell, and he had one sitting waiting to be prepped for sale. Wow. Sadness for the Golf was rapidly being replaced by new-car excitement.

Then the dealer said he could only offer £500 on the Golf as trade-in, but that he thought I could get maybe £1,300 for it on Auto Trader. I said well I could do that, but both of us realised that the original insurance offer was even better. The dealer said to me, get back on to your insurance and tell them you've changed your mind. You want to take their original offer. Cry a bit if you have to. Tell them you're a poor confused old lady (who drives boy racers, right...)

It worked. (I didn't even have to cry.) There was a bit of confusion about what to do with the Golf, which actually resulted in the dealer speeding up the prepping of the new car so I could have it on Thursday (13th), because I thought I had to return the Golf to the repair shop today. But that fell through, and now I'm just waiting for the salvage company to collect it directly from my house at a time to be arranged. Which will probably not be before Thursday. So I'm not even going to be without a car for a day.

Of course the insurance people could have handled it better, but on the whole it's all worked out to my advantage in the end. The only downside? If I'd realised I'd be getting rid of the Golf Tuesday/Wednesday I wouldn't have filled it with petrol last Thursday!

Long thread, bit of a stream of consciousness, but I thought some of you might find the story amusing. Zero to new MG4 in eleven days. Which included the Easter weekend holiday.

 

[RichardC]

Welcome to #teamblue. I have just moved from an MG ZS EV to my MG4 and I absolutely love it.

 

[FiferMG4]

Wow! That really has been a rollercoaster of a ride for you, but it seems to have all ended happily. I’m amazed how quickly you were able to get the car, but I can see you have a shrewd dealer. Mine was a six month wait. ?

 

[bowfer]

Wow! That really has been a rollercoaster of a ride for you, but it seems to have all ended happily. I’m amazed how quickly you were able to get the car, but I can see you have a shrewd dealer. Mine was a six month wait. ?

There’s plenty of cars in stock all over the UK.
I was two weeks for the MG4 from enquiry to collecting, and that was back in November when the cars were supposed to be difficult to get.
I was also under two weeks for my Born, which was in their showroom.
TBH, for a car that comes in a very fixed spec, waiting months isn’t normal.

 

[Rolfe]

Welcome to #teamblue. I have just moved from an MG ZS EV to my MG4 and I absolutely love it.

All the moaning on this forum has made me slightly nervous, but to be honest there wasn't even another car in the frame once I'd seen the MG4. And in my experience forums tend to be magnets for the disaffected and most happy campers don't even stop by.

Wow! That really has been a rollercoaster of a ride for you, but it seems to have all ended happily. I’m amazed how quickly you were able to get the car, but I can see you have a shrewd dealer. Mine was a six month wait. ?

SIX MONTHS??? If I'd had to wait that long I'd have had to buy more road tax for the Golf and it would have been getting uncomfortably close to needing another MOT! I would probably also have died of embarrassment given the large bash on the driver's side.

I'm just sorting out what the insurance underwriter needs, and one thing they want is its current MOT certificate. Having retrieved it from a heap of junk I'd emptied out of the car, and read down the list of advisories and concerns (from last November, so it's been through another winter since then) I'm becoming convinced that my guardian angel deserves a bonus.

I really didn't want to give up the Golf, but nothing lasts forever and sometimes the universe decides to tell you something.

 

[Rip Van]

Until 31st March (eleven days ago) I knew next to nothing about electric cars except that my next car would be one. I'm collecting my new MG4 SV on Thursday.

My existing car is a 2009 Golf GTi Mk6 with 135,000 miles on the clock and bodywork issues. In December an idiot BMW driver pulled out of a side street and hit me, damaging the front wing and driver's door, also scratching the alloy wheel. First he said he'd pay for the repair and I was OK about that because I didn't want to risk the car being written off by the insurance company (it goes like a bat out of hell), but when he heard the cost - £1,600 - he backtracked, so the insurance became involved.

Insurance said that's fine, it's repairable, but we can't do it till 22nd March. So I just drove around in this bashed car till then. On 22nd March they carted it off and said, soon have that back to you all fixed. The courtesy car arrived, all fine. Then on 31st March an email arrived out of the blue saying they'd decided to write the car off. They'd give me £4,000 (so a fair bit more than it would have cost to repair!) and please fill in a SORN declaration and hand back the courtesy car.

I panicked. That was going to leave me stranded with nothing. I told them I wanted the car back. The insurance said they'd give me £2,400 if I wanted to keep the car, and I said OK then, having little option at that point or so I thought, and went to collect it.

However the seed had been planted. About 20 minutes of googling that evening convinced me that the MG4 was the stand-out candidate to replace the Golf. I was mindful that the Golf needed four new summer tyres about now, and was it worth it given that I'd been thinking about changing the car next year anyway? Also, how much would it take to get it through its MOT in November this time? I spent the rest of the evening watching reviews of the MG4 on YouTube.

After the weekend I went to talk to my own garage man and he said, well, if you're going to change the car, don't get it repaired because that wouldn't increase its trade-in value by as much as it cost. I was still thinking it would take weeks - probably months - to get hold of an MG4, but I could run the car on its winter tyres till then (this is Scotland after all), and its road tax was good till August. So I thought I'd get the process started and booked a test drive on 8th April, expecting that even if I wanted one I'd still be in the Golf until about July.

I loved the car and decided on that course of action. Order placed for MG4 SE basic model in Holborn Blue. I was gobsmacked when the dealer said, would Monday 17th April be OK for you? No waiting list. Apparently they're selling like hot cakes so the dealership has been ordering them on spec, knowing that they'll sell, and he had one sitting waiting to be prepped for sale. Wow. Sadness for the Golf was rapidly being replaced by new-car excitement.

Then the dealer said he could only offer £500 on the Golf as trade-in, but that he thought I could get maybe £1,300 for it on Auto Trader. I said well I could do that, but both of us realised that the original insurance offer was even better. The dealer said to me, get back on to your insurance and tell them you've changed your mind. You want to take their original offer. Cry a bit if you have to. Tell them you're a poor confused old lady (who drives boy racers, right...)

It worked. (I didn't even have to cry.) There was a bit of confusion about what to do with the Golf, which actually resulted in the dealer speeding up the prepping of the new car so I could have it on Thursday (13th), because I thought I had to return the Golf to the repair shop today. But that fell through, and now I'm just waiting for the salvage company to collect it directly from my house at a time to be arranged. Which will probably not be before Thursday. So I'm not even going to be without a car for a day.

Of course the insurance people could have handled it better, but on the whole it's all worked out to my advantage in the end. The only downside? If I'd realised I'd be getting rid of the Golf Tuesday/Wednesday I wouldn't have filled it with petrol last Thursday!

Long thread, bit of a stream of consciousness, but I thought some of you might find the story amusing. Zero to new MG4 in eleven days. Which included the Easter weekend holiday.

Which dealer?

 

[CarlMG4]

Until 31st March (eleven days ago) I knew next to nothing about electric cars except that my next car would be one. I'm collecting my new MG4 SV on Thursday.

My existing car is a 2009 Golf GTi Mk6 with 135,000 miles on the clock and bodywork issues. In December an idiot BMW driver pulled out of a side street and hit me, damaging the front wing and driver's door, also scratching the alloy wheel. First he said he'd pay for the repair and I was OK about that because I didn't want to risk the car being written off by the insurance company (it goes like a bat out of hell), but when he heard the cost - £1,600 - he backtracked, so the insurance became involved.

Insurance said that's fine, it's repairable, but we can't do it till 22nd March. So I just drove around in this bashed car till then. On 22nd March they carted it off and said, soon have that back to you all fixed. The courtesy car arrived, all fine. Then on 31st March an email arrived out of the blue saying they'd decided to write the car off. They'd give me £4,000 (so a fair bit more than it would have cost to repair!) and please fill in a SORN declaration and hand back the courtesy car.

I panicked. That was going to leave me stranded with nothing. I told them I wanted the car back. The insurance said they'd give me £2,400 if I wanted to keep the car, and I said OK then, having little option at that point or so I thought, and went to collect it.

However the seed had been planted. About 20 minutes of googling that evening convinced me that the MG4 was the stand-out candidate to replace the Golf. I was mindful that the Golf needed four new summer tyres about now, and was it worth it given that I'd been thinking about changing the car next year anyway? Also, how much would it take to get it through its MOT in November this time? I spent the rest of the evening watching reviews of the MG4 on YouTube.

After the weekend I went to talk to my own garage man and he said, well, if you're going to change the car, don't get it repaired because that wouldn't increase its trade-in value by as much as it cost. I was still thinking it would take weeks - probably months - to get hold of an MG4, but I could run the car on its winter tyres till then (this is Scotland after all), and its road tax was good till August. So I thought I'd get the process started and booked a test drive on 8th April, expecting that even if I wanted one I'd still be in the Golf until about July.

I loved the car and decided on that course of action. Order placed for MG4 SE basic model in Holborn Blue. I was gobsmacked when the dealer said, would Monday 17th April be OK for you? No waiting list. Apparently they're selling like hot cakes so the dealership has been ordering them on spec, knowing that they'll sell, and he had one sitting waiting to be prepped for sale. Wow. Sadness for the Golf was rapidly being replaced by new-car excitement.

Then the dealer said he could only offer £500 on the Golf as trade-in, but that he thought I could get maybe £1,300 for it on Auto Trader. I said well I could do that, but both of us realised that the original insurance offer was even better. The dealer said to me, get back on to your insurance and tell them you've changed your mind. You want to take their original offer. Cry a bit if you have to. Tell them you're a poor confused old lady (who drives boy racers, right...)

It worked. (I didn't even have to cry.) There was a bit of confusion about what to do with the Golf, which actually resulted in the dealer speeding up the prepping of the new car so I could have it on Thursday (13th), because I thought I had to return the Golf to the repair shop today. But that fell through, and now I'm just waiting for the salvage company to collect it directly from my house at a time to be arranged. Which will probably not be before Thursday. So I'm not even going to be without a car for a day.

Of course the insurance people could have handled it better, but on the whole it's all worked out to my advantage in the end. The only downside? If I'd realised I'd be getting rid of the Golf Tuesday/Wednesday I wouldn't have filled it with petrol last Thursday!

Long thread, bit of a stream of consciousness, but I thought some of you might find the story amusing. Zero to new MG4 in eleven days. Which included the Easter weekend holiday.

Similar story to myself in some ways..

Walked into a dealership, test drove a blue Trophy, loved it. Expected a 4 month wait but they had a grey one sat unregistered and said I could have it within 10 days or so once finance was sorted and prep was done.

Safe to say I took the grey and picked it up within 10 days and sold my other car privately.

2008 Honda CRV 2.2 Diesel to the silent and smooth MG4 Trophy. My first NEW car in a long time, first Electric car, and first auto that wasn't a clunky diesel.

The difference in drive quality is night and day.

 

[Rolfe]

Which dealer?

Macklin Motors MG Edinburgh West, beside the airport.

 

[Rolfe]

Similar story to myself in some ways..

Walked into a dealership, test drove a blue Trophy, loved it. Expected a 4 month wait but they had a grey one sat unregistered and said I could have it within 10 days or so once finance was sorted and prep was done.

Safe to say I took the grey and picked it up within 10 days and sold my other car privately.

2008 Honda CRV 2.2 Diesel to the silent and smooth MG4 Trophy. My first NEW car in a long time, first Electric car, and first auto that wasn't a clunky diesel.

The difference in drive quality is night and day.

I'm still waiting (slightly on tenterhooks) for Aviva to transfer the money from my investment bond to my current account so I can pay for the car! They've promised it will happen today though. The money from the insurers hasn't yet shown up, but the dealer is happy to take that chunk off my credit card so I can bridge the gap that way.

I've never had a diesel car, although I have driven one now and again - the pool car at work was a diesel. Hot hatches seem to be my thing. After my first standard Fiesta way back when I went for a Fiesta XR2, which was a revelation, then a Peugeot 306 GTi6 which was great but eventually went into the scrappage scheme after 120,000 miles, then the Golf GTi Mk6 which I've had from new for almost 14 years.

I'm more interested in nippy acceleration from low speeds than in astronomical top speeds (though I did take the Golf to Germany when it was quite new, and that was fun), so I was really pleased by the way the MG4 performed. If it had been a slug, well, there's a specialist VW GTi dealer right next door to the MG dealer and we might have been talking second-hand similar to my old car, but really, the way I'm placed an electric car makes all sorts of sense (garage with power points, public charging point within walking distance while the nearest petrol filling station is nine miles away - and the first one in the direction I usually drive is 25 miles!) and I would feel guilty getting another polluting ICE car, so here I am.

I kind of wonder what the up-coming "hot hatch" version of the MG4 is going to be like. It will probably change colour when it accelerates! It does look good, but in terms of value for money and getting a performance that's absolutely fine by me, the standard MG4 is the winner.

 

[CarlMG4]

I'm still waiting (slightly on tenterhooks) for Aviva to transfer the money from my investment bond to my current account so I can pay for the car! They've promised it will happen today though. The money from the insurers hasn't yet shown up, but the dealer is happy to take that chunk off my credit card so I can bridge the gap that way.

I've never had a diesel car, although I have driven one now and again - the pool car at work was a diesel. Hot hatches seem to be my thing. After my first standard Fiesta way back when I went for a Fiesta XR2, which was a revelation, then a Peugeot 306 GTi6 which was great but eventually went into the scrappage scheme after 120,000 miles, then the Golf GTi Mk6 which I've had from new for almost 14 years.

I'm more interested in nippy acceleration from low speeds than in astronomical top speeds (though I did take the Golf to Germany when it was quite new, and that was fun), so I was really pleased by the way the MG4 performed. If it had been a slug, well, there's a specialist VW GTi dealer right next door to the MG dealer and we might have been talking second-hand similar to my old car, but really, the way I'm placed an electric car makes all sorts of sense (garage with power points, public charging point within walking distance while the nearest petrol filling station is nine miles away - and the first one in the direction I usually drive is 25 miles!) and I would feel guilty getting another polluting ICE car, so here I am.

I kind of wonder what the up-coming "hot hatch" version of the MG4 is going to be like. It will probably change colour when it accelerates! It does look good, but in terms of value for money and getting a performance that's absolutely fine by me, the standard MG4 is the winner.

The only 'hot hatch' I've ever owned was a Mk5 Golf GTi, and have driven various nippy cars over the years, even a GTD, Leon Cupra, Cooper S and so on. My most recent cars have been big(ish) SUVs and estates, all diesel, all practical and with a good driving position.

I have to say, and I may be out of the hot hatch picture, but driving the MG4 feels almost like a very good hot hatch, but without the noise. It feels effortless even when it's pushing hard.

The low centre of gravity is crazy, and it feels like its on rails. My first comment when I test drove it was - it feels like a rollercoaster, even has the electrical motor sound to go with it.

You won't be disappointed with the 4, I'm not, I'm loving it and I'm even looking for excuses to drive it!

The MG4 Triumph dual motor will be out of this world. If I had the money, and the nerve, I'd have held out for that one. But hats off to anyone who does get one.

 

[Rolfe]

The Mk 5 GTi was said to be sluggish compared to the Mk6, and the Mk6 to be something of a return to the values of the original Mk1, but I wouldn't really know. A friend with a Mk5 liked it well enough. But the Mk6, to me, is bat out of hell territory. I was never tempted by the R, and only partly because I needed the rear passenger doors. (I'm realising I never got a speeding ticket in the Mk6, which is actually in the miracle class. I think it isn't a car that attracts speed-cop attention, like the XR2 did I have to say, and after a few brushes with cameras in the Peugeot I got very wise to the things.)

I've only done a test drive of the MG4 so far, and apparently I wasn't pushing it! We were going round one of these cloverleaf interchanges where you're on quite a tight circle for about 270 degrees and I was doing 40mph. The dealer said "it can do this a lot faster than this" but although I could see the logic (very low centre of gravity) I declined to take the bait. I'd rather get the feel of the car gradually.

The car feels just as nippy at legal speeds as the Golf does, and that will do me fine. I need a car RIGHT NOW as I have an insurance write-off sitting in my garage, so any thoughts of waiting for the new model (even if I could sensibly afford it) are out. I suppose I should be grateful for the idiot who ran into me in December, because it has forced me to get moving and get the Golf retired in double-quick time, whereas otherwise I might have swithered for ages and wasted money on new tyres and getting it through its MOT. I think the insurance settlement was better than I'd have got as a trade-in deal even without the accident damage too.

 

[FiferMG4]

You won't be disappointed with the 4, I'm not, I'm loving it and I'm even looking for excuses to drive it!

I can attest to that. “Just nipping to the shops.“ “Again?!” ?

 

[Rolfe]

I was a bit like that when I first got my Golf GTi.

I hear that Tesco has free charging stations and my nearest supermarket (after the wee Co-op in the village) is a Tesco nine miles away. So it might be a free trip! (That supermarket is also my nearest petrol station. You can see why I'm keen on an EV.)

 

[CarlMG4]

I was a bit like that when I first got my Golf GTi.

I hear that Tesco has free charging stations and my nearest supermarket (after the wee Co-op in the village) is a Tesco nine miles away. So it might be a free trip! (That supermarket is also my nearest petrol station. You can see why I'm keen on an EV.)

Tesco have recently stopped Free Charging, it's now 40p/kWh as far as I'm aware.

There are BP Pulse free chargers (7kw) dotted around, not quite as practical as a free supermarket charge, but they do still exist for free.

Edit: 28p-50p /kWh

 

[Tight Git]

Done almost 10,000 miles in my blue SR SR with no issues yet (touch wood) - you'll love it! As an aside I had a blue MK2 GTI 8V from new and it was the most disappointing car I've had, and was glad to be rid of it.

 

[Retsiba]

I'm still waiting (slightly on tenterhooks) for Aviva to transfer the money from my investment bond to my current account so I can pay for the car! They've promised it will happen today though. The money from the insurers hasn't yet shown up, but the dealer is happy to take that chunk off my credit card so I can bridge the gap that way.

I've never had a diesel car, although I have driven one now and again - the pool car at work was a diesel. Hot hatches seem to be my thing. After my first standard Fiesta way back when I went for a Fiesta XR2, which was a revelation, then a Peugeot 306 GTi6 which was great but eventually went into the scrappage scheme after 120,000 miles, then the Golf GTi Mk6 which I've had from new for almost 14 years.

I'm more interested in nippy acceleration from low speeds than in astronomical top speeds (though I did take the Golf to Germany when it was quite new, and that was fun), so I was really pleased by the way the MG4 performed. If it had been a slug, well, there's a specialist VW GTi dealer right next door to the MG dealer and we might have been talking second-hand similar to my old car, but really, the way I'm placed an electric car makes all sorts of sense (garage with power points, public charging point within walking distance while the nearest petrol filling station is nine miles away - and the first one in the direction I usually drive is 25 miles!) and I would feel guilty getting another polluting ICE car, so here I am.

I kind of wonder what the up-coming "hot hatch" version of the MG4 is going to be like. It will probably change colour when it accelerates! It does look good, but in terms of value for money and getting a performance that's absolutely fine by me, the standard MG4 is the winner.

Please keep on posting. It's like reading a good book ?

 

[Rolfe]

Tesco have recently stopped Free Charging, it's now 40p/kWh as far as I'm aware.

There are BP Pulse free chargers (7kw) dotted around, not quite as practical as a free supermarket charge, but they do still exist for free.

Edit: 28p-50p /kWh

Damn.

I'm just going to suck it and see for a bit as regards charging. Being retired, I don't drive the car every day, and it may be that just using a 3-pin plug will put enough in it for my normal needs. Beyond that, there's a public charging point only about 400 yards from my house. I also have neighbours who say I can use their charger if I'm in a hurry.

I expect I'll get a charger in the end, everybody does, but another friend went for a year before doing it. Right now I don't need another £1,000 or so expenditure.

Done almost 10,000 miles in my blue SR SR with no issues yet (touch wood) - you'll love it! As an aside I had a blue MK2 GTI 8V from new and it was the most disappointing car I've had, and was glad to be rid of it.

I'm hoping I'll love it! It's funny, the different marks of the Golf GTi seem to have been very different animals. I only ever had the Mk6 and it was a great car. Actually all my cars (all four of them) have been great cars.

They've all been named after characters in The Tempest. My first Fiesta was Miranda, because she was worthy to be admired. So I called the XR2 Ferdinand to match. When the Peugeot came along, Ariel seemed appropriate. The very prosperous-looking Golf of course became Prospero. Now, there are other character names available, but there is a very good chance the MG4 will end up being Caliban!

Please keep on posting. It's like reading a good book ?

The money did show up about 12.30 and I was able to get the bank transfer done before leaving to pick up a friend for our music lesson, and give the Golf one last fling. When I got back there was an email from the dealer saying it had come through their end, so all he needs now is the insurance to switch from the Golf to the MG4 tomorrow morning and we're good to go for a 3pm collection.

It's a lovely evening, the Golf is still insured, it's got more than half a tank of petrol in it, and I think I might just go for another last spin!

 

[bowfer]

Damn.

I'm just going to suck it and see for a bit as regards charging. Being retired, I don't drive the car every day, and it may be that just using a 3-pin plug will put enough in it for my normal needs. Beyond that, there's a public charging point only about 400 yards from my house. I also have neighbours who say I can use their charger if I'm in a hurry.

I expect I'll get a charger in the end, everybody does, but another friend went for a year before doing it. Right now I don't need another £1,000 or so expenditure.

You can get chargers for a fraction of that.
Get yourself a used podpoint for under £200, then another £150 for installation.
An old podpoint is still perfectly fine for tariffs like Octopus go or Octopus Go Faster (cheap 4 hours at night)
Might not do Octopus intelligent tariff (6 hours cheap) but I don’t need that.
The used podpoints are often from people upgrading to fancier chargers that can do solar and stuff.
If you’ve no need for that, then don’t get the fancy charger ?

 

[siteguru]

The money did show up about 12.30 and I was able to get the bank transfer done before leaving to pick up a friend for our music lesson, and give the Golf one last fling. When I got back there was an email from the dealer saying it had come through their end, so all he needs now is the insurance to switch from the Golf to the MG4 tomorrow morning and we're good to go for a 3pm collection.

It's a lovely evening, the Golf is still insured, it's got more than half a tank of petrol in it, and I think I might just go for another last spin!

Just be careful - now the money is through the car belongs to the insurance company, so you might not actually now be insured to drive it. ?‍

 

[AdyC]

Enjoy it . I have had 5 x skoda VRS over the last 18 years which are basically a golf GTI. The missus far prefers the MG. It certainly is a nice car and comfortable but a VAG it isnt. Its when you start to pull it about you realise the build quality is more LADA or 80s Skoda. Its cheap compared to most and does the job though.