Christmas travel - help!

[Rolfe]

I was aware that LFP had range reduction in cold weather, just not the extent of it. I like the idea of LFP chemistry batteries but after having the Gen 1 ZS EV with a WLTP range of 163 miles I now prefer longer range capability even if I only need it a few times a year. Personal choice.

Slightly contradictory strategies there, not being in a hurry but tanking along at 75

I used to be very much like you, motorways were done at speed, cruise set at 80. However my first EV with the lower range forced me to slow a little to eke out the miles. I now set it at 65 and actually find the journey more enjoyable now.

Like on rapids as it's quicker to get off at 80% ish and do another charge later, it's sometimes quicker to go a bit slower.

Instavolt are now on Electroverse, so whilst they are horrendously expensive, you can at least save a few pennies using that card/app.

I find WattsUp to be good for checking live availability on route. Set up any chargers you're thinking of using as favourites and they display as a list on the home screen.

Although it is far better to plan and have alterative strategies, I'm sure the journey will be uneventful. What with our climate nowadays it will probably be a balmy 12 degrees at Xmas and no range worries.

The range reduction seems to be quite significant, so it's good you found out before you made any decisions. It's not worrying me, but if it worries you, go for the LR battery for sure. I did consider it, but decided it wasn't worth it for a few days a year. One of which has now turned out to be 23rd December, a day I had intended to avoid at all costs!

It is a bit contradictory, but it's the way I drive. I've had hot hatch "boy racer" cars since I bought my XR2 in 1993, and I just can't cope with holding back on the motorway. I'm not in a hurry, so I can afford to tank along and enjoy myself even though I need to stop sooner! But I'd have to stop on this journey anyway, so the speed isn't a huge issue.

If I held back I could maybe get to Kirkby Lonsdale without stopping, but then it's the A65 after that and I'll be driving more slowly anyway. The motorway is for doing the fast bit. If I was going on the 21st, as I had intended, I'd just plan to stop at Penrith and think nothing of it. 95 miles and then 92 miles. Perfect. It's just that the 23rd is probably going to be the worst day of the year to find a charger, and it's likely to turn into a MacMaster video on steroids for a lot of people.

Maybe you're right and I should change my driving habits and maybe I would find it relaxing, but I'm not at that stage yet!

As far as price goes, I should get that card, but I'm one of the people who encourages the rip-off. I charge so infrequently on these expensive chargers that a couple of quid more once in a while doesn't seem worth stressing about.

 

[tkmaxx5]

The range reduction seems to be quite significant, so it's good you found out before you made any decisions. It's not worrying me, but if it worries you, go for the LR battery for sure. I did consider it, but decided it wasn't worth it for a few days a year. One of which has now turned out to be 23rd December, a day I had intended to avoid at all costs!

It is a bit contradictory, but it's the way I drive. I've had hot hatch "boy racer" cars since I bought my XR2 in 1993, and I just can't cope with holding back on the motorway. I'm not in a hurry, so I can afford to tank along and enjoy myself even though I need to stop sooner! But I'd have to stop on this journey anyway, so the speed isn't a huge issue.

If I held back I could maybe get to Kirkby Lonsdale without stopping, but then it's the A65 after that and I'll be driving more slowly anyway. The motorway is for doing the fast bit. If I was going on the 21st, as I had intended, I'd just plan to stop at Penrith and think nothing of it. 95 miles and then 92 miles. Perfect. It's just that the 23rd is probably going to be the worst day of the year to find a charger, and it's likely to turn into a MacMaster video on steroids for a lot of people.

Maybe you're right and I should change my driving habits and maybe I would find it relaxing, but I'm not at that stage yet!

As far as price goes, I should get that card, but I'm one of the people who encourages the rip-off. I charge so infrequently on these expensive chargers that a couple of quid more once in a while doesn't seem worth stressing about.

One comment on the above not related to your journey but the cards...I too am an infrequent public charger, bud I do recommend the Electroverse card. It's free, and I found it added an extra layer of reassurance for some public chargers that those linked to the network (which is pretty comprehensive) were more likely to work. Anecdotal of course, but my experience was those not on the network were more likely to be out of commission, have connection issues or otherwise not work very well. Being able to stop / start a charge with the RFID card was more useful than I expected too - I thought I'd use the app or even contactless credit card but the RFID worked so efficiently it became my default, and was again a reassurance if I ever might find myself without mobile signal at a charger without contactless payment facility (in theory less common in future...but for now...).

The few pence / kW saving was nice where offered and as an Octopus customer I got a few more pence off in some cases and the cost was added to my monthly fuel bill which was an added convenience.

To each their own of course but it worked well for me.

 

[Rolfe]

Thanks for that. I prefer cards to an app, so I really should make the effort.

 

[siteguru]

I have an Electroverse card, but I've not used it yet. (Same as I have a Shell Recharge card, but not used that yet either). The only card I've actually used is my ChargePlace Scotland one.

 

[5teep]

What car are you talking about? The MG4 SE SR wouldn't manage that on a bet, with its LFP battery. My car was only showing 150 miles from a full charge after an outing which was 7 degrees on the way out and 5 degrees on the way back.

Ah I was using my own MG5 SR range.

 

[tonybridge]

Have you considered a Premier Inn or Travelodge along your route? Many of them (not all) have chargers. Though they may not accept cats! Also worth looking at chargers off your direct route.

 

[Grriff]

I think Premier Inn have Genie Point chargers... so beware

 

[Rolfe]

Have you considered a Premier Inn or Travelodge along your route? Many of them (not all) have chargers. Though they may not accept cats! Also worth looking at chargers off your direct route.

I'm only driving 186 miles to visit a friend. I'm not going to stay anywhere overnight, it's a four-hour journey at worst. And there's nothing much off the direct route that's any better than the stuff that's on it, really. And anything's likely to be busy that day.

I think it's Penrith and just wait my turn at Booth's, assuming these chargers are operational, and my range is as I hope/expect. If the range is looking either a lot better or a lot worse than expected, I'll probably call in to the Carlisle Ionitys. If the range is going well I should be able to charge enough there to get all the way. If it's looking bad, a charge there and another at Kirkby Lonsdale might be necessary.

 

[Rolfe]

I have an Electroverse card, but I've not used it yet. (Same as I have a Shell Recharge card, but not used that yet either). The only card I've actually used is my ChargePlace Scotland one.

I didn't get to use my Shell Recharge card when I needed it because I hadn't realised I had to activate it. I've done that now. I do use the ChargePlace Scotland card. I have ordered an Electroverse card, but something odd is going on. The app announced that I would be billed through my electricity bill, but Octopus is not my supplier. When I tried to associate my debit card with the app, it kept crashing.

 

[Rutsy]

For what it's worth I find that if I need

I have painted myself into a corner, and will have to drive 186 miles to my friend's house in Yorkshire on 23rd December. This is too far for the SR to manage on one charge in winter. Every EV in the country is likely to have detached itself from its wall-box teat on that day and decided to set off to visit its nearest and dearest. I am getting worried. I feel like I am walking into the next episode of the MacMaster Show.

ABRP, which seems to have little concern for the season of the year (I don't have a paid-for membership) thinks I should charge at Kirkby Lonsdale (on the Booth's 50 Kw chargers), but this is 131 miles into the journey. I don't have confidence that the car will make it that far in cold weather - not with my usual brand of motorway driving. I need somewhere sooner than that.

While I don't rule out 50 Kw chargers, I'd prefer something faster - the SR can go up to 90 Kw on a good day, and I've seen mine do 85 Kw. Glancing down the route there are some possibilities.

• Gretna motorway services. Lousy with chargers - four 350 Kw Ionitys, twelve 150 Kw Applegreens and a couple of 50 Kw Gridserves. However it tends to be popular for exactly that reason, and it could be an absolute scrum. Also, it's only 64 miles into my journey. Charging is likely to be slow, and I would not be at all confident of getting all the way to Halifax (another 121 miles) without a second stop, even if I was able to charge to a high SoC.
• Carlisle Ionitys. twelve 350 Kw chargers at the Carlisle Truck Stop. Tempting, although again there may be a queue. This is better, as it's 72 miles into my journey, leaving only 113 miles to go. But again charging won't start so fast, and I think I'd have to get higher than the 82% suggested by ABRP to be sure of making it all the way.
• Penrith Booth's, two 120 Kw Instavolts. This is close to perfect, as it is pretty much half way - 95 miles in and 92 miles to go. I can start at a fast charging speed and be sure to get as high as I need to get to my destination.

However. If I spurn Gretna and Carlisle, then I encounter a problem at Penrith, there is nothing worth mentioning between Penrith and Kirkby Lonsdale, which is too far. If I go directly to Penrith I must get a charge there, or I am toast. I'm not seriously concerned that the Instavolts might both be out of commission, but I am concerned about queuing when there are only two chargers. It's pretty close to the motorway.

If I choose to stop at either Gretna or Carlisle, these are probably interim stops to get me as far as Kirkby Lonsdale, where I'd need to pick up whatever I needed to get on to Halifax. Two charging stops on a journey of over 186 miles seems to be overkill, but more importantly it's two places where I might be caught in queues, not just one. This could be a nightmare all of its own on that day.

I'm thinking at the moment that I might look in to the Ionitys at Carlisle on the way and see if they're busy. If they're not then I can get something to be certain of reaching Kirkby Lonsdale (where there are four chargers at Booth's, although only 50 Kw) at least. If they are busy I would go on to Penrith with the intention of simply sitting there until I get on a charger. I'm not sure how big a risk that is, to be honest.

Any ideas, suggestions of other chargers, strategising, inside knowledge from people familiar with the area, welcome.

Entirely you choice of course but one lesson I've drawn fro driving long distances is that if you need a certain amount of charge to reach your final destination, the number of times you stop makes only a marginal difference provided you can get quick access to a charger. So, on a busy day id try to time my charger stops outside of busy times (eg lunchtime) and if a charger is busy them move on to the next one. It won't remove the possibility of queuing, but it won't significantly add to it.

 

[Gomev]

For what it's worth I find that if I need
Entirely you choice of course but one lesson I've drawn fro driving long distances is that if you need a certain amount of charge to reach your final destination, the number of times you stop makes only a marginal difference provided you can get quick access to a charger. So, on a busy day id try to time my charger stops outside of busy times (eg lunchtime) and if a charger is busy them move on to the next one. It won't remove the possibility of queuing, but it won't significantly add to it.

Definitely agree with those sentiments, especially about avoiding lunchtime.

 

[Gomev]

The range reduction seems to be quite significant, so it's good you found out before you made any decisions. It's not worrying me, but if it worries you, go for the LR battery for sure. I did consider it, but decided it wasn't worth it for a few days a year. One of which has now turned out to be 23rd December, a day I had intended to avoid at all costs!

It is a bit contradictory, but it's the way I drive. I've had hot hatch "boy racer" cars since I bought my XR2 in 1993, and I just can't cope with holding back on the motorway. I'm not in a hurry, so I can afford to tank along and enjoy myself even though I need to stop sooner! But I'd have to stop on this journey anyway, so the speed isn't a huge issue.

If I held back I could maybe get to Kirkby Lonsdale without stopping, but then it's the A65 after that and I'll be driving more slowly anyway. The motorway is for doing the fast bit. If I was going on the 21st, as I had intended, I'd just plan to stop at Penrith and think nothing of it. 95 miles and then 92 miles. Perfect. It's just that the 23rd is probably going to be the worst day of the year to find a charger, and it's likely to turn into a MacMaster video on steroids for a lot of people.

Maybe you're right and I should change my driving habits and maybe I would find it relaxing, but I'm not at that stage yet!

As far as price goes, I should get that card, but I'm one of the people who encourages the rip-off. I charge so infrequently on these expensive chargers that a couple of quid more once in a while doesn't seem worth stressing about.

I'm in no way suggesting you change your driving habits, each to their own so long as not a danger to others.
I understand the compulsion of urgency when driving, I used to do it myself. For a time I worked for Barclays at their Radbroke Centre just south of Knutsford, I used to commute daily approx 70 miles each way from Leeds in my nice 3 litre V6 saloon. Cost a fortune in fuel but couldn't help myself going as fast as conditions would allow. The most annoying part was that one of my colleagues was also commuting the same route but only from Huddersfield. When leaving work at the same time I would race off at 80 on the motorways only to be caught by him in traffic each and every time. He claimed he never went above 60 in his diesel Golf and mainly sat in the inside lane. Even so, I could still never stop myself in 9 months of doing that. ?‍

 

[siteguru]

That's the typical MGIF attitude ... only be sitting at the next set of lights.

 

[m4rmite]

Fun fact.
Whats the time difference on a 10 mile stretch at 60mph vs 70mph?

Spoiler

86seconds

 

[Rolfe]

For what it's worth I find that if I need
Entirely you choice of course but one lesson I've drawn fro driving long distances is that if you need a certain amount of charge to reach your final destination, the number of times you stop makes only a marginal difference provided you can get quick access to a charger. So, on a busy day id try to time my charger stops outside of busy times (eg lunchtime) and if a charger is busy them move on to the next one. It won't remove the possibility of queuing, but it won't significantly add to it.

I think that must depend on where you are and what the surrounding chargers are like. There are really only three sites that make any sense on this journey, and the one that has 12 connectors and so is least likely to be afflicted by queues is also the earliest, which still might not get me enough to get all the way to my destination. Charging speed will also be affected by a relatively high starting SoC. So if I charge there I might have to queue again anyway.

Specifically, I'm not betting on more than 2.2 miles/KWh on this trip. I may get more, fine if I do, but that's the baseline. By that calculation I still have 34% battery at Carlisle. Even if I charge to 94%, and I may not be able to go that high depending on peer pressure, that gives me only 103 miles of range, and my destination is 114 miles away. So Ionity at Carlisle is really only sensible if economy is really bad and a boost might be necessary even to get to Penrith, or if economy is much better than expected and in fact I might get enough to finish the journey there.

Penrith is 96 miles and if I can't get that far starting with a full battery we're probably in the next Ice Age. I should be at a low enough SoC to take full advantage of the 125 Kw on offer. (I don't know if a plan to heat the battery as I approach Penrith is sensible though - I don't want battery heating to cause me not to get to the bloomin charger!) I have 92 miles to go after that. Clearly 95% of battery will do that job, even if we're in a big freeze. Peer pressure? I may just vanish into a tearoom and watch the charge on my phone and the hell with it. It's a supermarket charger, not a motorway service station.

It's just not the sort of area where you can just shrug and say, I'll go on to the next one then. There's nothing else around that looks even faintly likely to be a better bet than these two. "Go on" from Carlisle is Penrith, and "go on" from Penrith doesn't sensibly exist.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm in no way suggesting you change your driving habits, each to their own so long as not a danger to others.
I understand the compulsion of urgency when driving, I used to do it myself. For a time I worked for Barclays at their Radbroke Centre just south of Knutsford, I used to commute daily approx 70 miles each way from Leeds in my nice 3 litre V6 saloon. Cost a fortune in fuel but couldn't help myself going as fast as conditions would allow. The most annoying part was that one of my colleagues was also commuting the same route but only from Huddersfield. When leaving work at the same time I would race off at 80 on the motorways only to be caught by him in traffic each and every time. He claimed he never went above 60 in his diesel Golf and mainly sat in the inside lane. Even so, I could still never stop myself in 9 months of doing that. ?‍

I can certainly hypermile if I have to, but the nature of this journey is such that I'm not going to get a lot of benefit from it. Of course if the motorway is very congested I might find I've done it without meaning to. I think I just have to keep Carlisle, Penrith and Kirkby Lonsdale in my head and figure out which is the best bet on the day.

 

[Rolfe]

Fun fact.
Whats the time difference on a 10 mile stretch at 60mph vs 70mph?

Spoiler

86seconds

Yes, but I'm going a lot further than 10 miles. OK, you could say we're only talking 20 minutes even so, but still...

 

[gus]

The 23rd is a Saturday, I think you will be fine, there may be a rush Friday and/or possibly Sunday but I think it will be a steady flow across Saturday and Sunday mainly shopping and you won’t have a problem.
Last year Christmas was on the Sunday plus the weather was rubbish.

 

[jackois]

For what it's worth I find that if I need
Entirely you choice of course but one lesson I've drawn fro driving long distances is that if you need a certain amount of charge to reach your final destination, the number of times you stop makes only a marginal difference provided you can get quick access to a charger. So, on a busy day id try to time my charger stops outside of busy times (eg lunchtime) and if a charger is busy them move on to the next one. It won't remove the possibility of queuing, but it won't significantly add to it.

I'm the same...I've taken to travelling outwith busy times...

Generally setting off at 05.30 aiming for a charge at 2 hours, around 120 miles... coffee and toilet while charging...

Evening return... 7pm set off, charging around 9pm...

Rarely any others charging at those times...

 

[Rolfe]

I've got a concert on the Friday evening. That's the problem. I volunteered to do a flute solo before I'd quite twigged what day it was, and I can't back out now. My original plan to do it on the Thursday lies in ruins. Setting off for an overnight journey following the concert isn't really on. I'd be a danger on the roads. And even if I got up at stupid o'clock on Saturday morning, I still wouldn't get to Penrith before the local rush started. And I'm not getting up at stupid o'clock on Saturday morning. With the packing I have to do, and the cat (packing for him is worse than taking a baby on the road, I tell you), I'll be lucky to get away by eleven (I intend to leave by ten, but...)

Also, there's an element of pride here. I don't want to arrive at my friends' house at a weird time of day, because I had to travel at a weird time because of my new electric car.

I'm just making up my mind to go to Penrith and park myself in whatever queue there is for these two Instavolts. At least in an EV I can keep the heater on.

Discussing Lee MacMaster's latest escapade on Twitter, someone said there had been five-hour queues for chargers in Cornwall in August. I don't really know if I believe him.