MG4 + Zappi Charger + Solar = a problem

[jeegnesh]

Hiya

Got my MG4 on Monday and really enjoying so far, few pain points but learning.

Current biggest concern is the charging, I had a leaf with the exact same setup and that worked as it should, but now with the MG4 in the picture having a problem.

Basically my Zappi charger is set to Eco++ which means when my solar is in excess by 1.4kW the charger will fire and car will charge. This kicks off fine, on days with cloud cover etc anytime it drops below 1.4kW the charge stops and then should restart when above 1.4kW. What I have noticed is that when this happens the MG4 on the stop charge is report the battery is full and so it will not accept further charge -- which is totally wrong the car is at 44%.

If I unplug and plug the charger then it will kick off on excess and then at some later point when it has maybe stopped and started it again says the car is full, so no further restarts.

Is anyone else having this issue with Zappi or solar excess charging?

 

[Rolfe]

Oh, I do hope it isn't a problem, because this installation was just completed at my house this afternoon. (You can't see the Zappi in this shot because it's inside the garage.)

I have absolutely no idea whether my system is doing what yours is doing, because we've only just managed to get the car and the Zappi to talk to each other.

 

[dawson2099]

I have the same set up which works fine although sometimes I do get the EV Full message or EV preventing charge - last time this happened I discovered that a scheduled charge had been set up so nothing would happen - maybe the garage did it when checking my 80% limit issue (now resolved). Generally though it's not an issue, just works away in the background

 

[jeegnesh]

@Rolfe - be interesting to see how it works for you.

@dawson2099 - checked on the app and there is no schedule set on car or zappi and also have the car charge set to 100% so its not limited by that. Are there any particular settings on your zappi?

Sadly its very very cloudy and moody today so not going to be able to really test this out today.

 

[dawson2099]

No, my issue was resolved in the car settings. Try charging FAST then STOP and revert to ECO++

 

[jeegnesh]

I'll have to wait for another good production day to test out, but I def will, I hate exporting when my car could be charging

 

[dawson2099]

Me too, but as I'm on the Octopus tracker tariff the difference between my export price (15p) and import price (varies between 10p-20p) is not too great.

 

[Tig170]

I have something similar, but a ohme charger, I deliberatly asked for the car charger to be away from the solar+batteries (to stop home battery drain), so in winter I just use the car charger overnight to fill up, and in the summer on a sunny day, I use the granny charger during the day. To be honest im on a historic tarrif (4.5p overnight, but 45p during the day), which runs out at the end of the month, so havn't been too fussed as 99% of my energy was at the offpeak rate, so just did overnight charging.

Maybe for now you could either use a granny charger, or drop the setting on the car to 6amp, or play with the zappi, one way or another you seem to have enough flexibility to get it working as you need - I'm sure you just want a plug and charge solution that just works without too much thinking.

 

[Ian Key]

There is a helpful Zappi forum, not as good as this one obviously, which might be worth Zappi owners joining.

myenergi

The place for myenergi customers, supporters and fans to meet, discuss, provide feedback and share ideas

myenergi.info

 

[johnb80]

Hiya

Got my MG4 on Monday and really enjoying so far, few pain points but learning.

Current biggest concern is the charging, I had a leaf with the exact same setup and that worked as it should, but now with the MG4 in the picture having a problem.

Basically my Zappi charger is set to Eco++ which means when my solar is in excess by 1.4kw the charger will fire and car will charge. This kicks off fine, on days with cloud cover etc anytime it drops below 1.4kw the charge stops and then should restart when above 1.4kw. What I have noticed is that when this happens the MG4 on the stop charge is report the battery is full and so it will not accept further charge -- which is totally wrong the car is at 44%.

If I unplug and plug the charger then it will kick off on excess and then at some later point when it has maybe stopped and started it again says the car is full, so no further restarts.

Is anyone else having this issue with zappi or solar excess charging?

Check ZAPPI Firmware if not the latest, update it.
Zappi V1 3.114 07/11/2022
Zappi V2 5.417 01/03/2024

Set the ZAPPI to STOP mode, plug the car in.
Change the ZAPPI to FAST mode and wait for the charging to start, let it charge for a couple of minutes.
Set the ZAPPI to STOP mode and wait for a couple of minutes.
Set the ZAPPI to FAST mode again and see if charging restarts, if it does thats good, if it doesnt, you have a car issue.

 

[STG]

I originally had this problem when I first plugged in mine with it set on ECO++, ie it starts then when drops down below 1.4kW (10 mins later when a cloud came by for a visit) it said it had finished etc.

I looked and upgraded the firmware and since then not had the problem. I am current on v5.416 on a Zappi V2

Upon plugging in now, the Zappi says waiting for surplus and when there is surplus it starts it RCD check then counts down and starts charging, when a cloud visits now it pauses and waits for surplus and then continues until the MG say's "I'm full" (whatever is set on the MG to finish charging at).

Depending on setup, for me I can't charge the MG on ECO++ until at least 11am as the house batteries take preference on solar production, once they reach 99% then the MG get's the energy. I could set the Zappi to 50% etc on the ECO++ slider so the MG will charge whilst the house batteris also get charged but this could also take energy from the grid which costs money,

You can see my Zappi charging stats here

On a different side issue I had to query with the Solar engineer the other day as I noticed a little problem with exporting to the grid on these really good sunny days we just had. I did not notice this since install as the sun was not really great.
I noticed...
1) Lets say the panels are producing their max output which is 6.7kW
2) House batteries are getting approx 6kW to charge, house consumption is approx 600 W
3) Once house batteries are at 99% the inverter switches to export
4) Only 3.6kW would be exported and the inverter drops the panel producing to approx 4kW .

I would have expected the 6kW to be exported and thought something was wrong with the inverter or panels.
The reason is that even though my inverter can export 7kW it is restricted to 3.6kW export as this is a requirement of the National Grid in your local area and your limit is written on the G99 Connection document. You may not have a G99 as this is only required if your solar panel output is above 5kW (AFAIK as I can't remember what the installer said at the time).

So, this means that during the hopefully hot sunny summer I technically can lose 2.5kW export production per hour which is not much cost wise (export at 14p per kWh = 2.5kW x 7 hours = 17.5kW = £2.45 a day)
However it also means I have a possible 17.5kW to use
1) I could purchase another 20kW Battery to store the excess and then export during the evening
2) I could buy a couple of portable air con units and cool the house during the hot evenings

I think the air con will win, as the outlay is approx £400 for each unit whereas a 20 kWh battery will be about £5000 even though they could generate an extra £3 a day for say 180 days which would bring in £540+ a year but that will take about 6+ years to pay back and in the mean time I would still have a hot bedroom and other rooms during the summer and listen to the wife saying she can't sleep at night.

 

[STG]

You can also get your Zappi charging stats by downloading your files from the MyEnergi site here

 

[johnb80]

On a different side issue I had to query with the Solar engineer the other day as I noticed a little problem with exporting to the grid on these really good sunny days we just had. I did not notice this since install as the sun was not really great.
I noticed...
1) Lets say the panels are producing their max output which is 6.7kW
2) House batteries are getting approx 6kW to charge, house consumption is approx 600 W
3) Once house batteries are at 99% the inverter switches to export
4) Only 3.6kW would be exported and the inverter drops the panel producing to approx 4kW .

I would have expected the 6kW to be exported and thought something was wrong with the inverter or panels.

What make & model of inverter do you have ?

The reason is that even though my inverter can export 7kW it is restricted to 3.6kW export as this is a requirement of the National Grid in your local area and your limit is written on the G99 Connection document.

Did your installer do a G99 install or opt for the G98?

You may not have a G99 as this is only required if your solar panel output is above 5kW (AFAIK as I can't remember what the installer said at the time).

G99 is needed if your inverter is greater than 3.6 kW for export etc. Thats why many installers only opt for 3.6 kW inverter, the paperwork is easier.

So, this means that during the hopefully hot sunny summer I technically can lose 2.5kW export production per hour which is not much cost wise (export at 14p per kWh = 2.5kW x 7 hours = 17.5kW = £2.45 a day)
However it also means I have a possible 17.5kW to use
1) I could purchase another 20kW Battery to store the excess and then export during the evening
2) I could buy a couple of portable air con units and cool the house during the hot evenings

I think the air con will win, as the outlay is approx £400 for each unit whereas a 20 kWh battery will be about £5000 even though they could generate an extra £3 a day for say 180 days which would bring in £540+ a year but that will take about 6+ years to pay back and in the mean time I would still have a hot bedroom and other rooms during the summer and listen to the wife saying she can't sleep at night.

Do yourself a massive favour and dont use portable AC units, go for a proper split system (I'd recommend Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Inverter Units). Theyre way more efficient than portable units, they have the ability to heat or cool and theyre near silent in operation.

Units like this:-
Mistubish AC

If youre DIY capable you can save a lot of installation costs by mounting and wiring the units (or running the cables). My local guy charges £50 to connect pipes, vacuum the system and release refrigerant. Efficiency is amazing with a COP of around 3.5 on heating (1 kW electricity gives you 3.5 kW heat) and on cooling even better.

 

[jeegnesh]

@STG - have a similiar'ish setup to you, so let my batteries charge first, then either the Eddi for hot water or the Zappi for car -- I don't use the export scheme as I'm a back in the day FIT customer so I get paid for everything I generate for quite some years to come.

So in the eco+ settings I have set the charge stop 'delay' to 240s so it does not go on and off so quickly and so far today it has worked perfectly, been 5 stops and its restarted on surplus every time so early days but maybe this has resolved the issue.

@johnb80 - Normal charging works fine, I will double check my firmware is uptodate but I usually get alerts on the app for that and have not seen anything recently.

 

[Rolfe]

This is all very interesting. I am using my Zappi for the first time as I type. My main question is whether the Zappi will allow the car to balance when it gets to 100%, or whether it will see 100% in the car and just cut off the power. It's no big deal to switch to the granny lead to let the car balance I suppose, but it would be nice not to have to.

Yesterday I got home late and realised the car needed a little bit extra to cover this morning's driving. I didn't go near the Zappi, just plugged in the granny lead. That took power from the home battery, which could stand it, and I stopped the charge after a couple of hours, at 1.30 am, with the battery still looking reasonable.

When I woke up at 8.15 the battery was down at 18%, having powered the house all night, but the sun was beginning to do stuff, certainly enough to keep the house ticking over. I decided the car needed a little more and started the granny charge again. When the battery got down to 5% it stopped discharging and switched the load to the grid, so I stopped the charge as I had enough. Battery probably trying to protect itself.

About then the sun began to break through and I went off for a music lesson. I watched what was going on during the 2-hour lesson, until I was told off for inattentiveness! One thing that confused me, and I see it confirmed in the GivEnergy web page, is that even when the battery was still under 50%, it would chuck power to the grid if the solar was fairly high. To me this is a waste as I'm not yet getting paid for export (G99 not yet come through), and even if I was, isn't it better to hold on to it than to sent it away? Maybe the battery has a maximum charge power less than the solar can generate? But we're only talking 6.6 kw from the solar, I'd have thought it could handle that.

I got home on 7% charge in the car, because I'm still trying to do this <10% to 100% charge that I aborted last week. About half an hour later the home battery got to 100% and I decided the car wanted the sunbeams now. I started with the granny lead but soon realised that was taking only a small fraction of the solar output, leaving a lot to go back to the grid, so switched to the Zappi. This had the opposite issue, in that the system now needed some grid power to keep up the full charge speed. (I didn't use one of the eco modes because I want that charge to happen in one uninterrupted exercise.)

At first the system seemed to want to protect the battery, keeping it at 100% by taking power from the grid. But after a while the battery started to kick in as the solar generation faded, and it's now down to 50%. It'll probably have discharged by the time the charge finishes at 9.20. I don't really mind, I'm using up a little bit of the credit I still have with Scottish Power in advance of the switchover to Octopus tomorrow, but I'm trying to understand the logic of what's happening.

I don't yet have a variable tariff (by the end of the week I hope) or an export tariff (maybe as long as July, I'm told), so there will be these things to get to grips with. Also the installer said to leave the car plugged in to the Zappi on eco mode and it would just take what excess solar happened along, so I might try that tomorrow (although I'll have to go on a joyride first to get the car battery down a bit!)

All very interesting, and complicated by me trying to do that long charge, but I'm learning. I hope to get to a place where I can just leave it all set up in a favourable configuration and let it get on with it with miminal interference, but I need to understand the logic of how it works first!

 

[jeegnesh]

@Rolfe - I don’t know your giv energy model but it sounds like your model is 3.5/6kw max charge or discharge rate, I believe there very latest model is 5kw capable.

If you want to charge in 1 continuous block at a low minimum rather than granny but get the excess solar then use eco mode (not eco+). Eco mode charge continouus at 1.4kw but if you have excess solar it will add that to the 1.4kw so you make the most of any excess too.

Eco+ will only charge on solar excess and only when you are above 1.4kw excess, altough you can supplement that by turning the slider % in the settings, if you said 50% then it looks for excess above 700w and supplements the other 700w from grid, it doesnt seem to be able to grab that from the battery.

 

[Rolfe]

Every day is a school day. I'm going to leave it for now but that sounds like the right thing to do. I thought my battery was 5 kw capable but I'm not sure.

 

[jeegnesh]

Every day is a school day. I'm going to leave it for now but that sounds like the right thing to do. I thought my battery was 5 kw capable but I'm not sure.

Your batteries maybe but it the inverter’s capability which controls the max in and out not the battery if that makes sense.

 

[Rolfe]

It will in the end!

 

[STG]

What make & model of inverter do you have ?

A Luxpower 7kW Hybrid Invertor

Did your installer do a G99 install or opt for the G98?


G99 is needed if your inverter is greater than 3.6 kW for export etc. Thats why many installers only opt for 3.6 kW inverter, the paperwork is easier.

It's a G99 install as it was a 6.7kW panel system with dual 9.4kW batteries. A bit over spec but what I wanted and thus became a G99 install.

Do yourself a massive favour and dont use portable AC units, go for a proper split system (I'd recommend Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Inverter Units). Theyre way more efficient than portable units, they have the ability to heat or cool and theyre near silent in operation.

Units like this:-
Mistubish AC

If youre DIY capable you can save a lot of installation costs by mounting and wiring the units (or running the cables). My local guy charges £50 to connect pipes, vacuum the system and release refrigerant. Efficiency is amazing with a COP of around 3.5 on heating (1 kW electricity gives you 3.5 kW heat) and on cooling even better.

Thats great to hear, I tried 2 local companies for a quote but they were not intrested as it's domestic install.
I have see several proper DIY systems, and I am very good at plumbing and electrics but it was the gassing of the units I was unsure how to do but you give me an idea of getting a thrid party person to gas them. Make it better as the portable units can be a bit noisy 60dB+ which can be a problem at night but was looking to get a small commercial portable unit approx 25btu which had external vents so I could place it in the attic and vent the cool air and room extraction to ceiling vents in the bedrooms and then vent the hot air from the unit directly outside.

But a external proper unit to a split system (3 bedrooms) would be better. Thanks