Tesla Supercharger Issue MG5 LR

[Gomev]

As I understand it the only PFL cars that need a new CCU are those SR versions. It appears that the LR PFL can have a software upgrade. My PFL LR is booked in for the upgrade in 10 days time. We shall see.

There seems to be conflicting information about that, some dealers are saying any PFL needs a new CCU.

Indeed. My dealer Luscombes in Leeds, which seems to be quite a big fish in the pond, said my LR Exclusive PFL needed the CCU replaced to get the update, despite us all knowing from on here that the update has been done on PFL LR 5s with an update alone.

Coincidence or not this seems to have coincided with MGs decision that that this was a chargeable upgrade for the PFL and not a free update like it is for the FL version.

 

[maskull]

It used to happen: the Rover 3500 needed high octane 5 star fuel to run which only a couple or petrol companies supplied.

From the days when most of us didn't give a s$1t about the the planet .

 

[shpub]

From the days when most of us didn't give a s$1t about the the planet .

Yep and that included the recommendation to pour waste engine oil down the drain - from a 1950's Riley Owners manual! I'll report back when I get the upgrade done.

 

[Alslad]

It used to happen: the Rover 3500 needed high octane 5 star fuel to run which only a couple or petrol companies supplied.

And on the flip side, the Datsuns and other Jap brands that were built to run on 2* and 3*

As I understand it the only PFL cars that need a new CCU are those SR versions. It appears that the LR PFL can have a software upgrade. My PFL LR is booked in for the upgrade in 10 days time. We shall see.

I wonder if they started using newer hardware in the last run of the PFLs? I used carscanner to pull as much obd info from the ECU identifiers menu and the evcc on mine was manufactured in July 2022 ( VCM 6th July, charger ECU 4th July, car registered October 22) be interesting if others can access the info and compare manufacturing dates see if there is a trend

 

[TBog]

Good news here,
Our firmware has been updated and now we can charge up using Tesla chargers.
Strange procedure you plug in, turn car on go to app then click start charge. Not so simple…
But we can charge.

They didn’t update the software
MCU 83.3.4.8
MPU 1300R12

 

[MickeySw]

Good news here,

They didn’t update the software
MCU 83.3.4.8
MPU 1300R12

Good news indeed, the car only displays the FW of the infotainment system, you need a dongle and the eZS app to see update details

 

[kevin ellard]

Good news here,
Our firmware has been updated and now we can charge up using Tesla chargers.
Strange procedure you plug in, turn car on go to app then click start charge. Not so simple…
But we can charge.

They didn’t update the software
MCU 83.3.4.8
MPU 1300R12

Mine seems to work more simply than that. I drive up to the charger - tell it to start in the app - then plug in the car.

 

[decrep]

Same here, doesn't seem so long ago an all LP gas car was sold here, now it's very hard to find a servo selling LP gas. Luckily mine was dual fuel, last trip across the Nullarbor.

 

[ryder]

Thanks guys, I will contact mg & see what they say. Many thanks

 

[Greendriver]

Just charged my MG5 Trophy for 33p/kWh

 

[Alslad]

Thanks for rubbing it in! ?

I'm going to take a chance and ask at service time if they can slip it through as goodwill. There should be legislation in place that manufacturers have to maintain public charger compatibility for a set number of years (at least the full warranty period), ie if the car has a CCS socket it should be able to use any charger with a CCS plug.

 

[shpub]

The problem is that all CCS chargers are not the same. Some are more compatible than others... Who then gets the responsibility for fixing the problems and what is to stop a charger company or operator from implementing some new feature that breaks that compatibility? Or the car manufacturer for that matter.

 

[Alslad]

The problem is that all CCS chargers are not the same. Some are more compatible than others... Who then gets the responsibility for fixing the problems and what is to stop a charger company or operator from implementing some new feature that breaks that compatibility? Or the car manufacturer for that matter.

Should apply to charger manufacturers as well, though they have more incentive to maintain compatibility as more cars charging = greater income possibilities. Issues with the Tesla chargers are a handshake error on the part of the car, most likely the issue with the chargers at Dover that are reportedly blocking MGs too.

 

[shpub]

Where did you get the info about it being a handshake issue caused by the MG?

I am curious because as I understand it, the problem is caused by non-compliance at the Tesla end where additional information is sent/expected that confuses the whole process. I have seen a lot of the reverse engineering that has been done to create open source interfaces and chargers and the main communication problems are caused by timing issues and additional data. i.e. the charger times out or data formats are incompatible. There have also been hardware issues with the powerline communication and noise. Given that the MG works with other chargers and that the Tesla system is effectively an add on put on top of a proprietary systems, the evidence does point towards a Tesla based issue that for some reason, the MG (and others?) is more susceptible to.

 

[Archev]

Where did you get the info about it being a handshake issue caused by the MG?

I am curious because as I understand it, the problem is caused by non-compliance at the Tesla end where additional information is sent/expected that confuses the whole process. I have seen a lot of the reverse engineering that has been done to create open source interfaces and chargers and the main communication problems are caused by timing issues and additional data. i.e. the charger times out or data formats are incompatible. There have also been hardware issues with the powerline communication and noise. Given that the MG works with other chargers and that the Tesla system is effectively an add on put on top of a proprietary systems, the evidence does point towards a Tesla based issue that for some reason, the MG (and others?) is more susceptible to.

I agree to the point that I’m seriously considering cancelling the update I’ve booked for my MG5.
I do almost all my charging at home and I’m happy enough to wait for a slower charge if needed.
I don’t suppose MG or Tesla will be bothered about the loss of one customer’s custom but I can happily wait on an awful lot of power for the costs involved.

 

[Alslad]

Where did you get the info about it being a handshake issue caused by the MG?

I am curious because as I understand it, the problem is caused by non-compliance at the Tesla end where additional information is sent/expected that confuses the whole process. I have seen a lot of the reverse engineering that has been done to create open source interfaces and chargers and the main communication problems are caused by timing issues and additional data. i.e. the charger times out or data formats are incompatible. There have also been hardware issues with the powerline communication and noise. Given that the MG works with other chargers and that the Tesla system is effectively an add on put on top of a proprietary systems, the evidence does point towards a Tesla based issue that for some reason, the MG (and others?) is more susceptible to.

Can't find the links but read on a Tesla forum and a SpeakEV post where a member had contacted Tesla support and the handshake error is the MG not responding quickly enough/a timeout. This seems to be that same reason Eurotunnel have blocked some MGs and Mitsubishis (non Tesla chargers)

 

[shpub]

Can't find the links but read on a Tesla forum and a SpeakEV post where a member had contacted Tesla support and the handshake error is the MG not responding quickly enough/a timeout. This seems to be that same reason Eurotunnel have blocked some MGs and Mitsubishis (non Tesla chargers)

Thanks for that. Appreciated.

Interestingly so we have a timeout that occurs with Tesla and MG but not with other chargers and MG. That does throw the suspicion back on Tesla doing some non-standard stuff. It may be a symptom of what happens but the cause is not necessarily anything to do with MG not supporting the CCS standard. And this is the problem.

Many of the Tesla chargers also suffer from poor communication through noise and it could be that this is causing the Tesla to timeout. The fact that some stalls work when others don't is indicative of hardware differences and the powerline comms would be my first suspect. The MG could reply in time but the Tesla has not seen or recognised it. The MG then times out. Tesla then reports it as a Car problem. Easy solution for them when it could be hardware issues or anything else that goes on and that the cause is due to something they have done. The fact that their charger would often be bricked indicates some pretty wierd stuff is going on and not just a simple timeout.

Time outs in the CCS protocol do vary from charger to charger and some are incredibly short! Why I don't know as they need to be reasonable but it could be that their test car(s) do respond that quickly and they have not tested any other.

What is also interesting that the Mitsubishi bricking was caused by the charger failing to regulate the DC voltage correctly on a Chademo connection. Nothing to do with CCS. Again reported as a "car" fault, hence the Eurotunnel ban. Also the MG5 problem appeared about 18-24 months ago as before then they worked fine. Apparently, there has been several Tesla updates presumably as part of the opening procedure and since then they have not worked resulting in the MG ban.

 

[shpub]

I agree to the point that I’m seriously considering cancelling the update I’ve booked for my MG5.
I do almost all my charging at home and I’m happy enough to wait for a slower charge if needed.
I don’t suppose MG or Tesla will be bothered about the loss of one customer’s custom but I can happily wait on an awful lot of power for the costs involved.

For the £72 quid charge it is worth a try. If it doesn't work then I do most of my charging at home and it is not that big a problem as you say. Anyway it gets done on Wednesday. Fingers crossed!

 

[EVsince2016]

Can't find the links but read on a Tesla forum and a SpeakEV post where a member had contacted Tesla support and the handshake error is the MG not responding quickly enough/a timeout. This seems to be that same reason Eurotunnel have blocked some MGs and Mitsubishis (non Tesla chargers)

That is the exact issue I have with EDP chargers at McDonalds in Portugal, charger times out before car responds.

 

[shpub]

Just got back from a service and tesla update that did not happen....

Well it seems that all PFL MG5s need a charger swap or to be more accurate all mk1MG5s need the new charger at a cost of £500. This makes a mockery of the fact that LR PFL cars have had the software upgrade applied and work with a Tesla. The dealer have been told not to attempt the upgrade because any potential damage would be their responsibility and declined to do it. Perfectly acceptable position but they had no explanation for why some cars work fine with the update. They are in a very difficult position but they listened and we understood each other's position and we have come up with a plan to move forward.

It looks like that the SR cars have a nonupgradeable charger but the LR ones have the later upgradeable units. It could be that the mk1 MG% is actually the SR versions. AS a result the bulletin is misleading. That needs to be proved by establishing which charger is fitted to which car. The problem is it is not clear if all the LR cars have the right charger or what so the service team is going to help identify which charger is in my car. If it is an SR one then fine I understand the position. If it is a later one then it is stroppy email to MG asking what they are playing at by charging me for a new charger which I don't need. Trading standards I think would be very interested in this as it is a scam. Anyway need to get as much info to challenge the bulletin as possible.

Watch this space - waiting for my phone to charge to start plugging in the OBDII unit!