MG4 51 kWh charging speed on 3 phase system and on solar panels

[Razvan]

Dear colleagues. I will be soon owner of a MG 4 Explore version ( Romanian name for the standard range with 51kWh battery).
I would like to know from the existing owners of this 51 kWh model if the max power of 6,6kW as it is specified in the technical datasheet, can be reached on a charging station which will be supplied by my 10 kW, 3 phase electric supply house installation. Some others were saying this MG4 standard version will only take this.
Also I am interested to know which will be the max power absorbed by the car with the the same charging station wired to the 3 phase socket from my 10kW electric supply.
Thanks a lot for support.
Razvan

This is the charging port of MG4 explore. This means it cannot charge on 3 phase if L2 and L3 are empty ?

 

[siteguru]

A 10 (11?) kW charge point will be 3-phase. That means 3.7kW (maximum) per phase.

The SE SR / Excite / Explore only has a single phase onboard charger. Therefore the maximum charge rate you'll get from your charge point into the car will be 3.7kW.

 

[Razvan]

Thanks for the feedback @siteguru
But what if I will buy a 22kW charge station for my home which will be supplied by my 3phase 10 kW power supply installation. Will this 22 kW 3phase station be able to sum all the three phase currents and deliver 6.6kW to the car ?

 

[Bam Bam]

I would like to know from the existing owners of this 51 kWh model if the max power of 6,6kW as it is specified in the technical datasheet, can be reached on a charging station which will be supplied by my 10 kW, 3 phase electric supply house installation. Some others were saying this MG4 standard version will only take this.
Also I am interested to know which will be the max power absorbed by the car with the the same charging station wired to the 3 phase socket from my 10kW electric supply.
Thanks a lot for support.
Razvan

Is that 3.3kW per phase or 10kW per phase?

If the latter then I would guess you would get the full amount, if not then it will be less as Siteguru says.

 

[Razvan]

Is that 3.3kW per phase or 10kW per phase?

If the latter then I would guess you would get the full amount, if not then it will be less as Siteguru says.

10 kW 3 phase total power from which i understood will be divided by 3 phases so aprox 3.33 kW per phase if this is the coorect formula to find the power per each phase. By the way , from what i know the Power = U (voltage) x I ( intensity of the current in Ampere) . And if my circuit breaker from the electrical panel is 16A this means the power per each phase would be 230V x 16A = 3680 W if i am not wrong.

For the 64kWh battery MG4 model I understood it has 3 phases and 11 kW max power in AC current. But I am not sure if my existing 10 kW 3 phase total power will be able to provide at maximum 10 kW for those 11 kW maximum power supported by the 64kWh version.

 

[siteguru]

Your car will not accept a 3-phase supply - you've already shown the photo of the charge port. So any conversation about what another car can achieve is irrelevant (unless you're planning to change your car).

A car will charge at the maximum rate of either the available supply, or the rating of the onboard charger if that is lower. In your case your 10kW 3-phase supply will charge your single phase car at around 3.3kW.

PS - if you install a 3-phase 22kW charge point on the end of your 10kW supply, you will still only get 10kW.

 

[Razvan]

Thank you once again for the answers. I forgot to mention that until the end of this year I intend to install a solar panel system with Deye 12kW 3 phase hybrid inverter whitch I understood that is able to deliver unbalanced power to each phase up to half of it's maximum power ( so 6kW to a single phase from the total of 12kW of the inverter). So, in this case and if i will mount a 1phase charging station which will be power supplied by the Deye inverter with up to 6 kilowatts of power when sun light will be maximum. Will be this a good solution in order to reach almost the maximum power of 6kW from those 6.6 kilowatts of this MG for explorer version? Thanks.

 

[MG 4 Phil]

I can report that the 64kWh (luxury) will charge at 11kW. I installed myself a SMA 22kW charger (on an SMA solarsystem with home manager 2) As the car only can charge 11kW I reduced the power from 22kW to 11kW in the software; the wiring didn't need to be 6mm² but only 2,5mm². The system can charge on solar power at 1 phase and 3 phase and switching this automaticaly (it takes approx 3 minutes to switch due to a safety matter). On 1 phase the minimum accepted power is 1,4 kW on 3 phase this is approx 4,6 kW, I only used now for 2 days and the max power was 7 kW as the system can only generate 8 kW. On grid power I can charge at the full 11kW.

 

[Razvan]

I can report that the 64Kw (luxury) will charge at 11Kw. I installed myself a SMA 22Kw charger (on an SMA solarsystem with home manager 2) As the car only can charge 11Kw I reduced the power from 22Kw to 11KW in the software the wiring didn't need to be 6mm² but only 2,5mm². The system can load on solarpower at 1 phase and 3 phase and switching this automaticaly (it takes approx 3 minutes to switch due safety matter). On 1 phase the minimum accepted power is 1,4 Kw on 3 phase this is approx 4,6 Kw, I only used now for 2 days and the max power was 7 Kw as the system can only generate 8 Kw. On grid power I can load the full 11Kw.

Thanks a lot for sharing Phil. I am also taking into consideration to change my mind and buy the 64kWh model for solving the charging speed but there is approx. 4-5 K EUR more expensive than the standard 51kWh version. If I could reach those 6 kW max power on AC current at home from the solar system for the 51kWh version, by using the unbalanced supply from the Deye 12 kW inverter I would be happy with it and stick to this 51kWh version but if this scenario is not correct then I will have to move to the 64kWh version to be able to charge from the solar with up to 12 kW from the inverter. Maybe there is one of the members here that have similar setup with MG4 51kWh, 12 kW hybrid Deye inverter and 3 phase system around 10 kW. Thanks again for all your answers.

 

[Coulomb]

PS - if you install a 3-phase 22kW charge point on the end of your 10kW supply, you will still only get 10kW.

That's assuming that it is installed correctly and set to tell the car to draw a maximum of 15A. If it tells the car that it can take 32A, then the car will do so and you will trip a breaker to protect your cable feeding the EVSE (charge point).

The car can't magically limit itself to the maximum that the system can safely supply, nor can a breaker limit the current to a specified value. That's why there is a control pilot and a resistor in the type 2 plug: these are both telling the car what the limits are.

For a wired in EVSE, the control pilot limit is often set by a DIP switch inside the case. But some may have a variable limit set by buttons, or perhaps set by an app.

So, in this case and if i will mount a 1phase charging station which will be power supplied by the Deye inverter with up to 6 kilowatts of power when sun light will be maximum. Will be this a good solution in order to reach almost the maximum power of 6kW from those 6.6 kilowatts of this MG for explorer version?

That sounds OK, depending on the details. It's unclear to me what happens if there isn't enough sun to cover the 6kW (about 26A at 230V). If you have a battery on that inverter, it can cover for occasional clouds, but unless it's unusually large, it will quickly get depleted in rainy days. So then the grid presumably can provide power. But if you can pull 26A from one phase safely, then you could set up a single phase EVSE.

I'm 99% sure that the Deye can only output 6kW on a phase from solar; it can't blend power from three phases of the grid and concentrate it into one phase of the output.

Do you plan to connect the EVSE to the essential loads output of the Deye?
Is your entire grid connection limited to 10kW? That seems very low.
Can the Deye safely draw more than 3.3kW from each phase from the grid, when there is no solar power?

My guess is that while you could charge at 6kW from solar when available, you would need some way to tell the car to drop its load to 15A when there isn't enough solar available for the inverter to do this. Otherwise, you would presumably overload your weak grid connection.

 

[Wil Tryharder]

While deciding whether to go with single or three phase charging options (We have the infrastructure for both). I found these articles from Charge HQ very helpful.

Single vs 3 phase when EV charging from Solar

Single vs 3 phase for home EV charging

 

[MickeySw]

If your single phase supply is capable of delivering 32A you can get a 7kW EVSE and your car will charge at that (minus losses).

If you get the same current on all three phases you can install a 22kW wall box but be aware that even if the car’s OBC is a 3phase model it’s limited to 11kW.

Everything 3 phase is a lot more expensive than a single phase solution, therefore unless you do a savage amount of driving each day, it’s hardly worth the higher charging rates.

Most people who think of charging their car using PV will end up with a Zappi EVSE as it’s specifically designed for that purpose.

However many owners of MG EVs have experienced issues with this setup when after repeated PV charging interruptions due to cloud coverage, the car terminates the session prematurely.

Another important aspect to consider is that it’s financially more beneficial to export your PV yield to the grid during the day and charge the car at ultra lower tariffs at night.

 

[MG 4 Phil]

Most people who think of charging their car using PV will end up with a Zappi EVSE as it’s specifically designed for that purpose.

However many owners of MG EVs have experienced issues with this setup when after repeated PV charging interruptions due to cloud coverage, the car terminates the session prematurely.

Another important aspect to consider is that it’s financially more beneficial to export your PV yield to the grid during the day and charge the car at ultra lower tariffs at night.

If thinking about a whole pv system (including inverter, energy manager, charger, even battery) see SMA, i can confirm it works very well in switching automaticaly from 1 - 3 phase and back on MG4 luxury also following the available current on pure sunpower operates flawless. My setup is first power up home consumption next the home battery, as last car charge.

 

[MickeySw]

If thinking about a whole pv system (including inverter, energy manager, charger, even battery) see SMA, i can confirm it works very well in switching automaticaly from 1 - 3 fase and back on MG4 luxury also following the available current on pure sunpower operates flawless. My setup is first power up home consumption next the home battery, as last car charge.

Seemingly MG sw allows only a limited number of times (7?) for the charging process to be interrupted when the PV power supplied goes below 1.4kW, therefore the size of the solar array seems to be crucial.

Best way to avoid interruptions would be to supplement the PV power (grid, battery) once it goes below the min.

 

[unbornidentity]

I’ve got an SE and a 7.4kW (32A) charger. Off the top of my head the max the charger states is 6.6kW and the car reports it’s charging at 5.8kW which must be due to losses.

It’s the 51 kWh battery, so the 6.6 kW charge rate is correct.

 

[Razvan]

Thank you all for the answers.
Right now my total installed power from the grid distributor is 10kW on 3 phases and my general circuit breaker from the main electric switchboard is 16A ( C16 400V from COMTEC - see attached image) which means the maximum current for each phase is 16A . This current of 16A per each phase multiplied with 230V (the voltage for mono phase) will be 3680 W - 3.68 kW.
PS: It is a mystery for me why in the left side of the main circuit breaker 16 A there is that contactor ( if I am not wrong ) of 25 Amperes
I also mention that my internal wiring for the electric outlets (plugs ) is made by copper of 2.5 mm² wire section (which according with some sizing tables) could stand for 30A current and 6.6 kW power which is the exactly maximum power admitted by MG4 Explore version of 51kWh battery.
But the Ideea is that my future PV Deye hybrid inverter of 12kW will be able to deliver (unbalanced to the 1 phase charger of the car) the rest of the power up to the 6.6kW ONLY with a BATTERY attached which is also around 2000 EUR for 10kWh size and this only for approx. 2-3 hours given the fact the battery will supply minimum 2.6 kW (6.6 kW - 4 kW - for the most brightness hours ) and up to 5.2 kW ( 6.6 - 1.4 kW when the sun is low) . This translates to :
1) approx. 3hours when the sun is at full potential = (10kWh battery size / 2.6 kW) hours because battery cannot be depleted to maximum
2) max 2 hours when the sun is low = (10kWh battery size / 5.2 kW) hours because battery cannot be depleted to maximum.
Considering these arguments, I think maybe it is not worth to invest in a battery and this complicated setup when I can buy the next version MG 4 Excite with 64kWh battery for around 3000 EUR more than the Explore version.
Now regarding this situation of MG 4 Excite with 64kWh battery, I know that compared to Explore which can be charged to 100%, it is advisable to charge it only between 20% to 80% which means 60% * 64 kWh = 38.4 kWh of energy which can be charged in approx. 3.5 hours when there will be full brightness of the sun ( 38.4 kWh / 11 kW three phase charging ) and this 38.4 kWh can drive me approx. 268 km at a rate of 7km per KWh if I am not wrong.
Thanks

[ Edited Coulomb: Many units corrected. ]

 

[MickeySw]

Usually a single phase 7kW EVSE is connected using 6mm² cable (10mm² if length is greater than 10m).

If your house is already wired 3 phase it makes sense to continue that way. Get a smart, 3Phase EVSE that will reduce the charge to your car when using heavy appliances in your house as you only have 11kW to play with.

Beware, as others have found out, that current MG FW doesn’t seem to work well when PV supply fluctuates below minimum (1.4kW).

The 20-80% SoC rule for NMC batteries is an outdated recommendation, many owners have charged their batteries to 100% on a daily basis for years without noticeable degradation.

 

[siteguru]

I’ve got an SE and a 7.4kW (32A) charger. Off the top of my head the max the charger states is 6.6kW and the car reports it’s charging at 5.8kW which must be due to losses.

It’s the 51 kWh battery, so the 6.6 kW charge rate is correct.

On my 7.4kW EVSE I tend to see 7.2kW in the EVSE app and 6.4kW in the MG app. (Same battery pack as you)

 

[unbornidentity]

On my 7.4kW EVSE I tend to see 7.2kW in the EVSE app and 6.4kW in the MG app. (Same battery pack as you)

Strange, perhaps they changed the spec because mine definitely can’t take 7.4kW. My last car could do so its not the charge point. I looked up the specs when I noticed it charges slower than the last car and it’s doing what it’s supposed to.

 

[siteguru]

Perhaps you misunderstand ... my car takes 6.4kW charge rate (per the charging I did Friday evening and overnight); my EVSE (wall box) delivers 7.2kW for the car to take 6.4kW of it. (So approx. 89-90% efficiency, per the app numbers). 6.4kW is within the 6.6kW rating of the car's onboard charger.