Rear lights condensing on MG4 SE

[Martinonline]

I agree that the condensation is annoying but you have made an assumption that the lamps inside are affected and not sealed. I do not know how the plastic light clusters are manufactured but I doubt they are effectively air-dried sealed units and thus will be affected by the local humidity.

It will be interesting to hear what your dealer says.

 

[tsedge]

Got my new MG4 Wednesday. Drove it through heavy rain first day, and lighter rain on Thursday and some on Friday. On Saturday the sun came back, and the fog problem revealed itself to me inside the left back light. Not much, but it's absolutely visible. Taking the car straight back to the dealership on Monday demanding them to repair it.

I have now read most of rhe threads on the "tailgate and back lights moisture fog problem". It's mind bothering how many people are persuaded by their dealerships, that this is a "normal and acceptable" issue. NO IT IS NOT! No car lamps are supposed to be taking in water. And cars are meant to be resistant ro rain, snow, heat and freezing temperatures. If a lamp can't withstand rain or a gentle wash, it is of poor quality or malfunctioning. As long as people are not delivering complaints, the issues will never be fixed addressed and fixed by SAIC.

I don't think you have understood the threads correctly.

These are unsealed lamp units as is common on many cars. They are not filled with inert gas. Consequently they will get condensation as the environment changes. There are tiny vent holes to let them breathe.

Due to the size of the units and the lack of heat with LEDs to dry them out, they are particularly condensation prone.

This is not a specific failing of MGs, many makes including expensive ones have the same issues. It is inherent in the way the lights are made. This isn't new, isn't specific to EVs. It is more obvious in EVs and the latest cars due to the big size of light units and the use of LEDs which produce minimal heat output to dry out and remove the condensation.

You can complain and might get them changed but new ones should have the same issue. Only a redesign would fix this.

The only actual faults are cracks and if water is getting in and pooling.

Nobody is pulling wool over our eyes here. Now, would it be better if they developed condensation proof units? Yes, but no doubt the cost would rise, they'd be gas filled and have seals that could still fail later in life.

 

[Ian Key]

It's all down to cost again. It's a large volume to keep gas tight and the plastic would have to be thicker and better quality to resist the expansion of the gas caused by sitting in the sun or contraction in freezing weather.
Would you have bought your MG if it had gas sealed rear lighting bar with no condensation, better quality materials etc. but cost a lot more?

 

[TC Electric]

It happens on vehicles costing 5 times the price of an MG..View attachment 18336

Looks like it has been hit after backing into an object. So....., probably caused by user error.

 

[TC Electric]

I don't think you have understood the threads correctly.

These are unsealed lamp units as is common on many cars. They are not filled with inert gas. Consequently they will get condensation as the environment changes. There are tiny vent holes to let them breathe.

Due to the size of the units and the lack of heat with LEDs to dry them out, they are particularly condensation prone.

This is not a specific failing of MGs, many makes including expensive ones have the same issues. It is inherent in the way the lights are made. This isn't new, isn't specific to EVs. It is more obvious in EVs and the latest cars due to the big size of light units and the use of LEDs which produce minimal heat output to dry out and remove the condensation.

You can complain and might get them changed but new ones should have the same issue. Only a redesign would fix this.

The only actual faults are cracks and if water is getting in and pooling.

Nobody is pulling wool over our eyes here. Now, would it be better if they developed condensation proof units? Yes, but no doubt the cost would rise, they'd be gas filled and have seals that could still fail later in life.

What do you mean by "I don't think you have understood the threads correctly"?

I've acctually read all of them. I AM aware of the fact that these are unsealed lamps, and I have even had problems with foggy and damped headlights and tail lights on other cars before, but... Those problems did never occur from day one of driving them cars. Seeing so many ppl in here adressing this condensation issue on cars not older than a month, tells me there is a flaw in the design or production somewhere.

Yes, the MG4 has a lower price than most new cars, but that doesn't take away the manufacturer's responsibilities. Saying that we had to pay more for it to expect to not have this problem, sounds like an argument imprented by a sleazy sales representative.

My point was, that instead of standing with our hats off when being told this is an acceptable issue, we all need to adress the issue directly to our country's main distributors/importers, so that it will be taken seriously and pushed harder and further.

Luckily, here in Norway we have very good consumer rights, and I will not stand down on this issue at all. For the sake of all others affected too.

 

[Bricktop X PWR]

Good Luck with that but you are wasting your time.
Google search any manufacturer for rear light condensation.
I've just done Tesla and Porsche as a start.
They all suffer the same.

You would only have a valid claim if it was a sealed unit which it is not.

I've had minor condensation similar to your picture on and off since I bought the car.
It, so far, has always dissipated on its own.

From Google

Condensation is a natural process that can occur in all car lights, including rear lights, and is more likely to happen when the exterior is colder than the interior of the lamp.

For example, you might notice condensation more in autumn and winter. In many cases, minor condensation will go away on its own. However, if there is excess condensation, it could indicate an underlying issue with the light.

You can regularly check for signs of condensation inside the light units and replace any defective bulbs. You can also try using a hairdryer to blow hot, dry air into the vent or on the outside of the headlight unit. As it heats up, it should dry out. Wait for the headlight unit to cool off to see if this method was effective

 

[fnegroni]

the only car I owned that didn’t suffer from condensation in their front or rear light clusters was a 2003 Mazda 6.
At least not in a so visible way.
All others including a ‘99 Ford Ka did.

i remember debating this on an online forum in 2004.

I think the matter was closed back then.

 

[TC Electric]

I don't think you have understood the threads correctly.

These are unsealed lamp units as is common on many cars. They are not filled with inert gas. Consequently they will get condensation as the environment changes. There are tiny vent holes to let them breathe.

Due to the size of the units and the lack of heat with LEDs to dry them out, they are particularly condensation prone.

This is not a specific failing of MGs, many makes including expensive ones have the same issues. It is inherent in the way the lights are made. This isn't new, isn't specific to EVs. It is more obvious in EVs and the latest cars due to the big size of light units and the use of LEDs which produce minimal heat output to dry out and remove the condensation.

You can complain and might get them changed but new ones should have the same issue. Only a redesign would fix this.

The only actual faults are cracks and if water is getting in and pooling.

Nobody is pulling wool over our eyes here. Now, would it be better if they developed condensation proof units? Yes, but no doubt the cost would rise, they'd be gas filled and have seals that could still fail later in life.

What do you mean by "I don't think you have understood the threads correctly"?

I've acctually read all of them. I AM aware of the fact that these are unsealed lamps, and I have even had problems with foggy and damped headlights and tail lights on other cars before, but... Those problems did never occur from day one of driving them cars. Seeing so many ppl in here adressing this condensation issue on cars not older than a month, tells me there is a flaw in the design or production somewhere.

Yes, the MG4 has a lower price than most new cars, but that doesn't take away the manufacturer's responsibilities. Saying that we had to pay more for it to expect to not have this problem, sounds like an argument imprented by a sleazy sales representative.

My point was, that instead of standing with our hats off when being told this is an acceptable issue, we all need to adress the issue directly to our country's main distributorsimporters, so that it will be taken seriously and pushed harder and further.

Luckily, here in Norway we have very good consumer rights, and I will not stand down on this issue at all. For the sake of all others affected too.

Good Luck with that but you are wasting your time.
Google search any manufacturer for rear light condensation.
I've just done Tesla and Porsche as a start.
They all suffer the same.

You would only have a valid claim if it was a sealed unit which it is not.

Please do not shout. Thanks.

From Google

Condensation is a natural process that can occur in all car lights, including rear lights, and is more likely to happen when the exterior is colder than the interior of the lamp.

For example, you might notice condensation more in autumn and winter. In many cases, minor condensation will go away on its own. However, if there is excess condensation, it could indicate an underlying issue with the light.

You can regularly check for signs of condensation inside the light units and replace any defective bulbs. You can also try using a hairdryer to blow hot, dry air into the vent or on the outside of the headlight unit. As it heats up, it should dry out. Wait for the headlight unit to cool off to see if this method was effective

View attachment 29622

Really? Not much fight left in you, is it?

First. A small condensation issue, isn't really a problem. Personally I'm not really bothered by the very small area that occurred once in my left rear light, but... On this specific car, wheres the tailgate/light spoiler-ish look, is a distinctive design feature of the car. It is a far more eye catching spoiling of the cars appearance, than a little fog inside a more ordinary designed rear light. Especially when some owners have experienced complete condensation inside all of their lights. Also, those owners would not get the car through the EU periodic two year check. And then we're talking safety issues, which moves this problem in a far more serious direction.

That is also why I consider this more of a major flaw in the design/engineering of these parts. It could have been done better if they put some more effort into it. And it needs to be addressed and pushed by everyone. Standing strong together is the only effective way. Collective collaboration.

By the way. Is one two-letter word written with capital letters really considered shouting?... ? Anyways, I would have no idea. I'm never easily offended ?

 

[tsedge]

What do you mean by "I don't think you have understood the threads correctly"?

Exactly what I said. That you appeared to have misunderstood the thread by thinking that these were sealed units - or that that sealed units were the norm, which they are not (for these kinds of lights). That's all I meant, it was a statement of the facts as they appeared to me from your reply.

I've acctually read all of them. I AM aware of the fact that these are unsealed lamps, and I have even had problems with foggy and damped headlights and tail lights on other cars before, but... Those problems did never occur from day one of driving them cars. Seeing so many ppl in here adressing this condensation issue on cars not older than a month, tells me there is a flaw in the design or production somewhere.

Ok, that clears it up then, thank you. These have been common issues on a whole range of different cars (including Porsches), so while it might be new to you, I was simply making it clear that this isn't a new issue. Now, could they redesign the lights to improve condensation performance, yes, I am sure they could.

Yes, the MG4 has a lower price than most new cars, but that doesn't take away the manufacturer's responsibilities. Saying that we had to pay more for it to expect to not have this problem, sounds like an argument imprented by a sleazy sales representative.

You are assuming this is some kind of manufacturing fault. I'm saying it isn't, this is normal for these kinds of units. I will ignore your last sentence.

My point was, that instead of standing with our hats off when being told this is an acceptable issue, we all need to adress the issue directly to our country's main distributors/importers, so that it will be taken seriously and pushed harder and further.

Good luck with that, sincerely.

Luckily, here in Norway we have very good consumer rights, and I will not stand down on this issue at all. For the sake of all others affected too.

I hope then a change follows from your stance. I wasn't trying to put you off, but I did feel that this issue - widespread across a lot of different makes and models - isn't something that has just appeared in MG EVs.... it's been around for a long time.

 

[TC Electric]

Exactly what I said. That you appeared to have misunderstood the thread by thinking that these were sealed units - or that that sealed units were the norm, which they are not (for these kinds of lights). That's all I meant, it was a statement of the facts as they appeared to me from your reply.

Ok, that clears it up then, thank you. These have been common issues on a whole range of different cars (including Porsches), so while it might be new to you, I was simply making it clear that this isn't a new issue. Now, could they redesign the lights to improve condensation performance, yes, I am sure they could.

You are assuming this is some kind of manufacturing fault. I'm saying it isn't, this is normal for these kinds of units. I will ignore your last sentence.

Good luck with that, sincerely.

I hope then a change follows from your stance. I wasn't trying to put you off, but I did feel that this issue - widespread across a lot of different makes and models - isn't something that has just appeared in MG EVs.... it's been around for a long time.

Then we kind of agree ??

 

[Bricktop X PWR]

What do you mean by "I don't think you have understood the threads correctly"?

I've acctually read all of them. I AM aware of the fact that these are unsealed lamps, and I have even had problems with foggy and damped headlights and tail lights on other cars before, but... Those problems did never occur from day one of driving them cars. Seeing so many ppl in here adressing this condensation issue on cars not older than a month, tells me there is a flaw in the design or production somewhere.

Yes, the MG4 has a lower price than most new cars, but that doesn't take away the manufacturer's responsibilities. Saying that we had to pay more for it to expect to not have this problem, sounds like an argument imprented by a sleazy sales representative.

My point was, that instead of standing with our hats off when being told this is an acceptable issue, we all need to adress the issue directly to our country's main distributorsimporters, so that it will be taken seriously and pushed harder and further.

Luckily, here in Norway we have very good consumer rights, and I will not stand down on this issue at all. For the sake of all others affected too.

Really? Not much fight left in you, is it?

First. A small condensation issue, isn't really a problem. Personally I'm not really bothered by the very small area that occurred once in my left rear light, but... On this specific car, wheres the tailgate/light spoiler-ish look, is a distinctive design feature of the car. It is a far more eye catching spoiling of the cars appearance, than a little fog inside a more ordinary designed rear light. Especially when some owners have experienced complete condensation inside all of their lights. Also, those owners would not get the car through the EU periodic two year check. And then we're talking safety issues, which moves this problem in a far more serious direction.

That is also why I consider this more of a major flaw in the design/engineering of these parts. It could have been done better if they put some more effort into it. And it needs to be addressed and pushed by everyone. Standing strong together is the only effective way. Collective collaboration.

By the way. Is one two-letter word written with capital letters really considered shouting?... ? Anyways, I would have no idea. I'm never easily offended ?

Yes.
Fighting something is fine if you think you have a reasonable chance of winning.
But taking on MG/SAIC and the Chinese?

Oh and capitals is considered shouting.
Good Luck.

You were shouting here in post #200

 

[Kithmo]

"We all" don't need to address this problem as we don't all have it, mine's been fine parked outside for the last 14 months with no condensation at all.

 

[ozzz]

Yes.
Fighting something is fine if you think you have a reasonable chance of winning.
But taking on MG/SAIC and the Chinese?

???

Oh and capitals is considered shouting.
Good Luck.

View attachment 29635

Hi the light assembly do not take in water just condense the vapour that’s in humid air.
I won’t be surprised if different locations have better or worse water in light assembly as in condensation due to humidity

 

[Ian Key]

I had a far amount of condensation in the rear lights when I first had the car but as time has gone on it has decreased significantly.

 

[Rolfe]

I don't even look at it, to be honest.

 

[tsedge]

Mine gets it, particularly under the rear badge but then it is parked where it gets no sun at all throughout the day.

 

[Bricktop X PWR]

Hi the light assembly do not take in water just condense the vapour that’s in humid air.
I won’t be surprised if different locations have better or worse water in light assembly as in condensation due to humidity

I never said that @ozzz.

I was quoting the shouting @ post #200

 

[OriginalBigAl]

It would be interesting to know the location of these vents, my old car used to suffer the same plus letting water into light cluster. A couple of 2mm holes drilled into the bottom solves both problems. I am a bit reticent to attack a brand new car in the same manner , but maybe opening up the existing vents may help with more ventilation and replacement of the humid air.?

 

[tsedge]

It would be interesting to know the location of these vents, my old car used to suffer the same plus letting water into light cluster. A couple of 2mm holes drilled into the bottom solves both problems. I am a bit reticent to attack a brand new car in the same manner , but maybe opening up the existing vents may help with more ventilation and replacement of the humid air.?

It is tricky, extra holes can make the condensation worse in some cases (by letting more moisture in).

 

[ozzz]

I never said that @ozzz.

I was quoting the shouting @ post #200

Ok must have been your accent ?