EV opposition in the media is ramping up

[Gadget Geek]

Right now, depreciation is heavier for many EVs than ICE, but it was the other way around 18 months ago and it will probably change again, EV secondhand values have started to rise.

This year, a number of ex-fleet vehicles came onto the secondhand market, as well as Hertz selling off a lot of their BEV's. This caused the prices to drop as there was a glut of used BEV's. I think we'll see prices stablise over the next 12 months as the number of vehicles available becomes constant.

 

[T1 Terry]

Do you think the drop in EV resale value was due to the bad press? Or the EV makers discounting their new vehicle pushing people to buy a new one rather than a second hand one?

T1 Terry

EDIT: Thanks, that explains it, not a move away from EV's, more a supply and demand thing

 

[salty]

Do you think the drop in EV resale value was due to the bad press? Or the EV makers discounting their new vehicle pushing people to buy a new one rather than a second hand one?

T1 Terry

Probably a bit of both, people tend to believe what they read, more so if it's bad press. And if you can get a Brand spanking new Motor, for not much more than a used one, it's a no brainer, really. ??

 

[T1 Terry]

Probably a bit of both, people tend to believe what they read, more so if it's bad press. And if you can get a Brand spanking new Motor, for not much more than a used one, it's a no brainer, really. ??

Apparently there isn't a big market for used early model X Power over that way

T1 Terry

 

[Ruislip Resident]

They have. Using Motorway v last month mines up about £500.

 

[tsedge]

Another misleading headline in the Telegraph:

Electric car drivers ‘being plunged into negative equity’ as prices collapse

Rapid depreciation of vehicles risks hitting forecourt profits as leases leave them exposed

www.telegraph.co.uk

There is not really any such thing as negative equity for car buyers - they are talking about cars being worth less than PCP final payments and wiping out the initial deposits paid (or traditionally expected positive equity left when the deal ends).

 

[HazardLights]

On EV depreciation... I think car depreciation should be counted from the actual price paid. There are only two types of people paying list price, contract buyers (even they don't have to) and the ignorant. Anyone can get a substantial discount and for EVs this tends to be bigger than for ICE cars. Measuring new car depreciation from this point makes EVs look a better investment than ICE cars. Buying used is usually better value still but that's another discussion and not about EV versus ICE. Personally I am an idiot when it comes to the allure of a new car.

 

[Ruislip Resident]

On EV depreciation... I think car depreciation should be counted from the actual price paid. There are only two types of people paying list price, contract buyers (even they don't have to) and the ignorant. Anyone can get a substantial discount and for EVs this tends to be bigger than for ICE cars. Measuring new car depreciation from this point makes EVs look a better investment than ICE cars. Buying used is usually better value still but that's another discussion and not about EV versus ICE. Personally I am an idiot when it comes to the allure of a new car.

In 2022 there wasn't really much room for discounts off list. I got 2 discounts : £1.5k off for taking a PCP and £0.5k from getting different quotes from CARWOW. Used (about a year old - I never buy used any older ) was the same price or sometimes more as you didn't have to wait. I could have paid the PCP off straight away but that's when base rate started rising so I pretty much offset the PCP interest with tax free cash ISA interest. Plus its given me a free hedge against depreciation being no higher than my sale price less the final balloon payment.

 

[siteguru]

You missed one category of person paying list price - early adopters. When I got my SE SR in November 2022 I paid list price as there were no offers whatsoever. (I was a cash buyer).

Edit: similar to what he said ^^^ (We posted at the same time)

 

[HazardLights]

You missed one category of person paying list price - early adopters. When I got my SE SR in November 2022 I paid list price as there were no offers whatsoever. (I was a cash buyer).

Edit: similar to what he said ^^^ (We posted at the same time)

You are correct. For new car models there is little discount available. However buyers of new models accept that is the price of shiny. I think the case for EV depreciation shouldn't be based around launch prices (which will hurt EVs as too many are new models) but around the established models (and their sell prices rather than list).

 

[Bam Bam]

You missed one category of person paying list price - early adopters. When I got my SE SR in November 2022 I paid list price as there were no offers whatsoever. (I was a cash buyer).

Edit: similar to what he said ^^^ (We posted at the same time)

This is why firms are starting with relatively upmarket versions of the cars (as with the R5), given that the early adopters will pay more.

Then they introduce the cheaper ones later, plus an extra special model or two to justify charging a premium.

 

[HazardLights]

This is why firms are starting with relatively upmarket versions of the cars (as with the R5), given that the early adopters will pay more.

Then they introduce the cheaper ones later, plus an extra special model or two to justify charging a premium.

I love my Trophy but often think that I would be just as happy with an SE as much as I like the heated seats and steering wheel. I couldn't resist the upsell but if driving an SE would I really regret the extras? I doubt it.

Returning to all the media including YouTube hate mongers. Journalism is all about the algorithm these days and that is about emotional engagement which mainly means rage and hate. The EV thing is a continuation of the polarisation, binary politics, tribal, stirring, divided, culture war of the modern world. The curse of the internet has permeated our society.

I try to avoid it. I cancelled my Times subscription this week because of that. I am avoiding speculation about the budget designed to frustrate and drive clicks and eyeballs. I hate newspaper online comments and think journalism only hangs on in the Economist and Private Eye. I miss the days when every opinion wasn't right wing or left/woke. The people producing the hate probably don't believe it either but it's a job and it pays. Some of them are probably bitter enough to believe the lies. Just ignore them and go for a walk or have a cup of tea and cake. In the gfood old days we could learn from people with different perspectives.

 

[siteguru]

Just ignore them and go for a walk or have a cup of tea and cake. In the food old days we could learn from people with different perspectives.

Freudian slip?

 

[Rolfe]

I was pretty clear from the start that I didn't want a Trophy. I honestly didn't want most of the extra bells and whistles, and when I see all the posts from Trophy owners about their software issues I'm rather confirmed in that impression. I don't miss the heated seats. I prefer the cloth seats (despite promptly covering them with fake leather seat covers!) The one thing I would like is the electrically folding wing mirrors - I think that was an economy too far in the SE. Also I would like that bug in the SE that prevents the automatic central locking from being disabled fixed.

I would have liked a sun roof, but neither model has that, so too bad. Really, the SE does what I want it to do and it's less bother.

 

[Archev]

Freudian slip?

Never tried one of his cakes ?

 

[salty]

I love my Trophy but often think that I would be just as happy with an SE as much as I like the heated seats and steering wheel. I couldn't resist the upsell but if driving an SE would I really regret the extras? I doubt it.

Returning to all the media including YouTube hate mongers. Journalism is all about the algorithm these days and that is about emotional engagement which mainly means rage and hate. The EV thing is a continuation of the polarisation, binary politics, tribal, stirring, divided, culture war of the modern world. The curse of the internet has permeated our society.

I try to avoid it. I cancelled my Times subscription this week because of that. I am avoiding speculation about the budget designed to frustrate and drive clicks and eyeballs. I hate newspaper online comments and think journalism only hangs on in the Economist and Private Eye. I miss the days when every opinion wasn't right wing or left/woke. The people producing the hate probably don't believe it either but it's a job and it pays. Some of them are probably bitter enough to believe the lies. Just ignore them and go for a walk or have a cup of tea and cake. In the gfood old days we could learn from people with different perspectives.

I tend not to listen to any of um. Most are a bunch of tossers anyway. I Do what I want to do. It's stood me in pretty good stead all me life. Never done me any harm. I've got by quite nicely, Thank you. ??

 

[Bluecar1]

Yeah the use case for the PHEV is vanishingly small.

Maybe people who mostly pootle about locally, but once a year travel thousands of miles without reliable charging infrastructure?

currently I am work from home, but about to change projects so likely to be doing more longer journeys, so the plugin gives me peace of mind on the long runs with no range anxiety

also battery tech and chargers seem to still be evolving, when I am on the road it is common for me to do 300-400 miles a day, at which point the patchy public charging infrastructure in the UK don't make it ideal

I pick up a new plugin hybrid with a 55-60 mile EV range in about a month, and in 3-4 years when the loan is up on it that's likely the point I will dive into full electric

 

[maskull]

currently I am work from home, but about to change projects so likely to be doing more longer journeys, so the plugin gives me peace of mind on the long runs with no range anxiety

also battery tech and chargers seem to still be evolving, when I am on the road it is common for me to do 300-400 miles a day, at which point the patchy public charging infrastructure in the UK don't make it ideal

I pick up a new plugin hybrid with a 55-60 mile EV range in about a month, and in 3-4 years when the loan is up on it that's likely the point I will dive into full electric

Hey is it the actual Bluecar1 ? Another Hyundai defector ?

 

[Bam Bam]

currently I am work from home, but about to change projects so likely to be doing more longer journeys, so the plugin gives me peace of mind on the long runs with no range anxiety

also battery tech and chargers seem to still be evolving, when I am on the road it is common for me to do 300-400 miles a day, at which point the patchy public charging infrastructure in the UK don't make it ideal

I pick up a new plugin hybrid with a 55-60 mile EV range in about a month, and in 3-4 years when the loan is up on it that's likely the point I will dive into full electric

Having workplace charging sounds like the key for those with such a long commute. Long range car. Fill up 8 hours both overnight and at home overnight and at work during the day.

That would be intensive use of a battery, it will either be charging or discharging (driving) 20+ hours per day. However, I'm sure a large lithium battery would cope really well.

 

[siteguru]