Is everyday charging harmful for the battery ?

[DrErhan]

I'm so sorry if it's already been asked qnd discussed before in the forum but probably because I'm new in the forum , i couldn't find such a subject .
I may need to charge everyday sometimes so I'm just worrying about to cause decrease on battery life ...
What I could find in the forum is that's not healthy to charge over %80 for daily usage , due to the battery type . So if I charge it everyday up to %80 would it make a problem in the future ? ?

 

[Pauly]

SR or LR ?

The 80% charge thing is only for long range cars, SR dont have the ability to limit to 80 % (although the app does give you the impression you can)

 

[N2STY]

I don't think this is such a big problem remember that's what the warranty is for at the moment ev are quite expensive until out of warranty look at the Mercedes b class's with Teslas batteries and motors now only 15k for ones with only 30k miles I don't think we are ready yet to cope with cars out of warranty so price will drop as soon as it costs the same price as the car to replace battery in time aftermarket Solutions will be available but for now you got your 8 year warranty on the battery is no insensitive for companys to develop this

 

[Jomarkh]

No.
Just don't leave it at 100% for long.

 

[DrErhan]

SR or LR ?

The 80% charge thing is only for long range cars, SR dont have the ability to limit to 80 % (although the app does give you the impression you can)

It's ZS EV Long Range ...

 

[Gadget Geek]

20% to 80% for everyday use, although I do 50% to 80% in case I have an unexpected journey. 100% charge before a long trip, or once a month to balance the cells. If I charge to 100%, I make sure I drive the next day to take it off the 100% as the batteries don't like being at full charge for long periods.

Bjorn Nyland on his Tesla Youtube channel has shown that it's the deep discharge and recharge cycles which tend to age the batteries prematurely (i.e. 5% to 95% on a daily basis).

 

[DrErhan]

20% to 80% for everyday use, although I do 50% to 80% in case I have an unexpected journey. 100% charge before a long trip, or once a month to balance the cells. If I charge to 100%, I make sure I drive the next day to take it off the 100% as the batteries don't like being at full charge for long periods.

Bjorn Nyland on his Tesla Youtube channel has shown that it's the deep discharge and recharge cycles which tend to age the batteries prematurely (i.e. 5% to 95% on a daily basis).

Great explanation ... Thank you totally understood ... ?????

 

[N2STY]

Great explanation ... Thank you totally understood ... ?????

One thing to add at 100% Regen will not work

 

[DrErhan]

One thing to add at 100% Regen will not work

Sorry I couldn't understand , could you please explain what is Regen ?

 

[Lovemyev]

On the face lift LR model, you CAN set the level of charge in the head unit or on the App.
It already displays the recommend scale of charging to use, for both everyday use and for the longer trips.
I tend to charge between about 40% SOC up to 80% SOC.
This charging scale is great for the majority of our daily usage.
You don't have this facility on the SR face lift model, it will only allow you to charge to 100% SOC unless you manually stop the charge yourself.
Different battery chemistry between both models.

 

[Lovemyev]

Sorry I couldn't understand , could you please explain what is Regen ?

Here is a pretty good explanation of how it works.
Very briefly, when the battery is fully charged, there is no space at the top of the pack to except the extra range gained from Regen braking, therefore it is greatly reduced in it's strength and the friction brakes are called on to do more work.

Regenerative braking: what is it and how does it work? | Auto Express

Regenerative braking turns your car’s kinetic energy into electricity to charge its battery and boost efficiency. Here’s how...

www.autoexpress.co.uk

 

[Caramaddy]

Regen = regenerative charge - brakes charge the battery.

 

[Lovemyev]

Friction brakes are just wasting energy.
Regen is provided by the same electric motor that is used to drive the car also !. Simply it has a crude / similar effect as the dynamo on a push bike.
When the HV battery has space to accept the charge gained by using Regen, the motor is performing a braking action to slow the car down.
Regen becomes stronger when the space in the HV battery ? increases, but only to a point.
Using stronger Regen will help conserve and even increase the range, under the right conditions.
Like down step hills / inclines etc.
This will reduce the fiction pad material wear down to almost zero.
Using the foot brake only to bring the car to a total stop, when required to do so.
Personal choice comes into this situation, but myself I ALWAYS use max Regen level 3 to be honest.
My favoured drive mode is NORMAL.
I firmly believe that by gauging the pressure on the “GO” pedal, it will give you the same feeling as ECO mode.
If you demand max power in a hurry, then SPORT mode is automatically supplied by flooring the “GO” pedal anyway.
Each to there own I guess.

 

[hmadsen]

I wonder if the "penalty" for going to 100% is the same no matter how you get there.

I mean, if i charge it to 100% slowly (2½ KWh) will it be less harmfull, than if i do it at a supercharger that will do, maybe 25 KWh from 80-100%

My car is mostly charged at max 2½ KWh, would be nice to know if this is more gentle to the battery, than if i used for example 11KWh charger or supercharger.

 

[Lovemyev]

NO - Is the quick answer.
Super charging produces a LOT of power and therefore a LOT of heat, not good for long term life of a HV battery.
Some EV's have active fluid cooling, but continued rapid charging from low SOC to full pack, will reduce the life cycle of the pack.
So, it makes sense that slower charging speeds create a lot less heat, which helps long term.
Like most things really, rapid charging is okay if not abused on a regular basis.
Myself, I try to limit there use to almost zero in my car.
Our previous ZS EV had only received two "Splash and Dash" charges on two Polar rapids, in just over two years and almost 20,000 miles.
99% of our charging needs, where carried out at home on a 7 Kw wall box.
Two small sessions on the "Granny" lead while we where on a short break away.

 

[BarryH]

I wonder if the "penalty" for going to 100% is the same no matter how you get there.

I mean, if i charge it to 100% slowly (2½ KWh) will it be less harmfull, than if i do it at a supercharger that will do, maybe 25 KWh from 80-100%

My car is mostly charged at max 2½ KWh, would be nice to know if this is more gentle to the battery, than if i used for example 11KWh charger or supercharger.

Technically charging rapidly would be harmful as it would generate a lot of heat as it would from a very low state of charge (SoC) which is why the charge curve from a low SoC starts low and ramps up then decreases and the battery fills up and on a Rapid Charger, you'll see the rate of charge decrease. This is noticeable above 80% SoC and by the time you reach 90% on a Rapid Charger the rate of charge is at or approaching single figures not far off what you'd be getting at home on a 7kW wall charger or public charging post (ironically also called a "Fast" charger).

So the battery charger at home isn't going to suffer harm "Charging" to 100%, but don't "leave it" at that 100% state of charge for extended periods of time or on a regular basis. Purists time their charging to finish at 100% shortly before they set off for their trip. Regular people for good battery health might just avoid charging to 100% if you aren't intending to use the car the following morning or day at a push.

This charging advice though is only relevant to the "Lithium-Ion" (Li-Ion) found in the majority of EV's. There is now an alternative battery technology called "Lithium-Phospheros" (Li-Po4) chemistry coming over to EVs which is common in Static Battery Storage Systems. Tesla uses them in the Chinese Model 3 & Y and is planning to make them standard for Standard Range Model 3 & Y worldwide. Although these have a slightly lower energy density than the traditional Li-Ion battery, their battery chemistry makes them more suitable for mass adoption of EVs and drivers transferring over from ICE cars (IMHO). They have the advantage that they prefer to be charged to 100% regularly so car owners used to "Filling up" their car will be able to "Fill up" their EV. If you were to charge your Li-Po4 EV to 100% you always know every morning you have Full Range available every morning rather than Faffing around with 80% for daily use. I've read a comment, but not had it confirmed that the New Facelift ZS Standard Range 51 kWh battery may have a Li-Po4 chemistry battery and if so this would be a great option 100% of 51 kWh of the ZS SR is pretty close to the daily driver 80% of 71 kWh ( ie 56.8 kWh) of the ZS LR ... it makes you think!

In the final analysis, if you need the rage your 100% gives you on any particular day then it's less stressful for the battery pack to charge it at home to 100% then use it than to charge to only 80% and need to Rapid Charge to complete your journey.

 

[5teep]

Most (all?) EV batteries keep some capacity spare which is why you see things like 61kwh capacity, 58kwh useable in the blurb. This means you never really charge to 100% of the battery's full potential. This is done to protect the battery. Also the way you charge the battery is important, a slower AC charge is much better than a faster DC one.
How long do you intend to keep the car? EV battery degradation is about 2.3% per year so if you keep it for 10 years it will still be over 75% effective.
My car is charged to 100% every night and used down to anywhere from 60% to 10% (often with a DC charge to 80% in the middle) depending where I have to go that day. Do I care about longevity? no, because I will not be keeping the car more than two years. ymmv.

 

[Lovemyev]

How long do you intend to keep the car? EV battery degradation is about 2.3% per year so if you keep it for 10 years it will still be over 75% effective.

Agreed !.
But if you DO intend to keep the car a while longer, and are therefore concerned about the future range of the car in its later life.
Then when looking for an EV just factor in some battery degradation into your figures.
Do not purchase an EV with a range when new, that only JUST fits your usage pattern, because after a few years, you are not going to hit your target, without carrying out more charging stops on route.
"Top Tip" :-
Build in some range redundancy into your requirement calculations as @5teep correctly suggests.

 

[TheArcher]

Friction brakes are just wasting energy.
Regen is provided by the same electric motor that is used to drive the car also !. Simply it has a crude / similar effect as the dynamo on a push bike.
When the HV battery has space to accept the charge gained by using Regen, the motor is performing a braking action to slow the car down.
Regen becomes stronger when the space in the HV battery ? increases, but only to a point.
Using stronger Regen will help conserve and even increase the range, under the right conditions.
Like down step hills / inclines etc.
This will reduce the fiction pad material wear down to almost zero.
Using the foot brake only to bring the car to a total stop, when required to do so.
Personal choice comes into this situation, but myself I ALWAYS use max Regen level 3 to be honest.
My favoured drive mode is NORMAL.
I firmly believe that by gauging the pressure on the “GO” pedal, it will give you the same feeling as ECO mode.
If you demand max power in a hurry, then SPORT mode is automatically supplied by flooring the “GO” pedal anyway.
Each to there own I guess.

Do the brake lights come on when using max regen? Some cars do.

 

[Lovemyev]

Do the brake lights come on when using max regen? Some cars do.

On the ZS EV both versions - Max Regen - YES.
The MG5 had an issue with this at first, but it was quickly jumped on and has now been sorted via a software upgrade.
So, on the MG 5 - Max Regen - YES.
If you are out at night, on a clear road with nobody tailing you, lift your foot off the "GO" pedal quickly and you will see the high level brake light come on !.
Difficult to spot in the day time of course, but it still works fine.
It is slightly quicker to react than an ICE of course, because there is a very small delay between your foot leaving the throttle pedal and switching over to the footbrake pedal.
On the EV, if you lift off the "Go"pedal quickly, the brake light will instantly be tuned on.