25/01/21: Just had latest BMS software. Observations...

[Chrisb]

First full charge on the "Granny charger" and it's showing 453 Volts & 133 miles in normal mode.
Outside temp at present is -1C.

Is that after the January update?

 

[chowbenter]

Is that after the January update?

I'm not sure! I picked the car up on the 1st February & was told all the updates had been done.
Forgot the other picture of miles in Eco mode.

 

[Lovemyev]

As the car has only covered a total of 60 miles on the clock, then is it running on a "Pre 15th Jan 21 BMS software" package then ??.
The 453 voltage reported on the HV pack after a full charge may suggest this to be the case ?.

 

[JodyS21]

As the car has only covered a total of 60 miles on the clock, then is it running on a "Pre 15th Jan 21 BMS software" package then ??.
The 453 voltage reported on the HV pack after a full charge may suggest this to be the case ?.

We know of zero cars that have had the latest 15th jan update and have over 450v.
So either this is the first we know of, or more likely it’s not had it applied.

 

[chowbenter]

As the car has only covered a total of 60 miles on the clock, then is it running on a "Pre 15th Jan 21 BMS software" package then ??.
The 453 voltage reported on the HV pack after a full charge may suggest this to be the case ?.

Still not sure as the Chaplehouse MG Wigan dealership was closed/furloughed when we arrived to pick up the MG ZS EV , I managed to find a phone number to ring & was told the car was at a Suzuki dealership across town The guy there wasn't sure but I was told at the beginning of January that all the updates had been done & they didn't go into any more detail.

 

[Chrisb]

The latest update only came out on the 15th January, I'm from Wigan aswell and just had to take mine to chapelhouse MG at St Helens for its first service, they never updated mine at its first service, but I did not have the faulty BMS mine still charges at 456v, by the sounds of it you may well have the faulty BMS update installed, it may be worth checking with them, before your battery starts to get out of balance, and you end up with reduced range and hours of equalising it.

 

[Lovemyev]

The latest update only came out on the 15th January, I'm from Wigan aswell and just had to take mine to chapelhouse MG at St Helens for its first service, they never updated mine at its first service, but I did not have the faulty BMS mine still charges at 456v, by the sounds of it you may well have the faulty BMS update installed, it may be worth checking with them, before your battery starts to get out of balance, and you end up with reduced range and hours of equalising it.

Just to say, we collected our car on the 6th Jan 2020 and it only had the very first small update that permitted delayed "Off - Peak" charging on SOME wall boxes.
This update prevented the car from going into a deep sleep and then sailed through the night without seeing the request for a delayed charge in the early hours of the morning.
Resulting in no charge being collected.
We used the car for the next 10 months and covered around 7,000 miles.
The car performed great and most of the time was using about 1 mile from the range on the GOM for every mile covered in the car.
It was very predictable and gave us no cause for concern.
On Oct 19th ( Pre - Buggy software ) I had the "Comfort 2" update done.
Again, the car performed in the very same way.
So, therefore if your car has NOT received the "Buggy" software and is not affected by massive range issue etc, then its fine.
Low reported voltage on the HV pack ( 430 volts ) after a full charge, with all electrical items turned off, is another indicator that your pack could be affected by the "Buggy" software.
Car's that COULD be affected by the "Buggy" software have been covered at length.
Remember, my car had the "Comfort 2" update prior to the 24th Oct 2020 so was not affected.
I think it soon becomes pretty evident if your car has been affected, due to the erratic behaviour regarding range and pack voltage etc.

 

[MAS]

definitely the highest volt I have seen, have you had your January update?

First full charge on the "Granny charger" and it's showing 453 Volts & 133 miles in normal mode.
Outside temp at present is -1C.

 

[Lovemyev]

definitely the highest volt I have seen, have you had your January update?

I strongly suspect not !.
The car has only covered 60 miles and I am predicting it missed the Jan 15th BMS update.
No problem with this IF it is still running on the original software.

 

[Cocijo]

I understand that the very latest BMS - reduced top end voltage update - is to protect the battery pack and improve battery longevity - but it’s not clear if this is an update that should be installed on all cars to protect their battery packs.

 

[jamesie]

Agree with you Cocijo.

Miles comment that this BMS update has battery protection features changes the ball game for this update. MG need to comment.

 

[Lovemyev]

If I remember correctly, Mikes did suggest that cars leaving the factory very recently will be receiving the same software that reflects the 15th Jan 21 update.
My guess would be, that if MG thinks that the latest software update DOES offer better protection to the HV battery, then all cars will be given this update at the time of being presented for service.
Therefore mitigating any warranty claims in the future for HV battery claims.
I would be interested to learn if the HV battery fuse protection update has now been dropped from the list of updates, and has now been incorporated in to the 15th Jan 21 BMS update.
My gut feeling tells me - Yes !.
I get the feeling that this latest update is an attempt to put right the errors in the last three updates that affected cars in an adverse way.
Out with old and in with the new type of thing !.
It makes perfect sense to me, have ONE single software bundle that can be applied by the dealership to all cars.
Having “Bits And Pieces” of various / different bundles applied correctly or incorrectly to different cars is just a recipe for disaster in my opinion.
Standardise the software on all cars is the way forward.
They all originally left the factory with the same software, bongs and all !.
But they where all the same and they worked fine.
Our problems only started when we submitted our cars for the so called “Improvements”.
The software needs a good enema to clear out the system and go from there !.

 

[jamesie]

Can't argue with any of your post Lovemyev.

However, MG should make a statement of the facts so that owners know what is expected. Let's face it customers don't have to have their cars serviced at an MG dealership. So are their cars disadvantaged or, at worst, contravening warranty if the BMS update is not done at next service?

 

[Mike]

Can't argue with any of your post Lovemyev.

However, MG should make a statement of the facts so that owners know what is expected. Let's face it customers don't have to have their cars serviced at an MG dealership. So are their cars disadvantaged or, at worst, contravening warranty if the BMS update is not done at next service?

Why?

The capacity is the same, therefore what you bought is the same. The warranty is the same. They are being proactive unlike most car makers out there. It’s an improvement. Why do they need to justify improving your car. The fact that the car you have now is better than the one you bought is a bonus. They have listened to owners and tried to implement what they are able to. All software releases I’ve ever seen have needed iterative updates. At least they owned up to the issues and have sorted it quickly. Unlike VW with the ID3.....

Very few dealers tell you they have updated the cars software when you take it in for its yearly service.

Our problem is we are looking at it like a computer/phone and most of the time we are given release notes as to what has changed.

MG/SAIC is still a legacy car maker with that mindset.

We have been spoilt by Tesla. I blame Tesla for all these problems.

 

[jamesie]

So, here I am having bought my car in November 2020. Do I have the rogue BMS software? Who knows....I don't....but apparently MG do. I can't tell because I have no access to the release number.

I'm not using the car much due to lockdown and pretty bad weather in the Scottish Borders this past fortnight. So, I haven't seen any evidence of the fault but my guess is that I have it.

On top of that I am being told that the BMS software I have does not look after the battery pack as well as the new one does.

I think that adds up to a recall by MG. I don't think I am being too hard on MG to expect that. Maybe I expect too much for a purchase that retails at £30,000.

 

[Cocijo]

Why?

The capacity is the same, therefore what you bought is the same. The warranty is the same. They are being proactive unlike most car makers out there. It’s an improvement. Why do they need to justify improving your car. The fact that the car you have now is better than the one you bought is a bonus. They have listened to owners and tried to implement what they are able to. All software releases I’ve ever seen have needed iterative updates. At least they owned up to the issues and have sorted it quickly. Unlike VW with the ID3.....

Very few dealers tell you they have updated the cars software when you take it in for its yearly service.

Our problem is we are looking at it like a computer/phone and most of the time we are given release notes as to what has changed.

MG/SAIC is still a legacy car maker with that mindset.

We have been spoilt by Tesla. I blame Tesla for all these problems.

You raise some very interesting points. I’m pretty sure the question was around knowing if the latest BMS update is being applied to all cars - as far as I know this has not been clarified. You keep saying MG are being proactive - how? By updating their software? How is the latest BMS software an improvement? Notwithstanding the issues that previous versions caused. What is the benefit to the customer? How is the car better than the one you purchased? I don’t see your logic I’m afraid. You mention MG have listened to owners - do you have evidence of this? How have they accomplished this and can this be a transparent ongoing activity? I don’t know what you mean by iterative updates to software releases. Modern EV’s are more like IT equipment - that is one of the main issues that dealers are not embracing - we should have release notes. Far from being spoilt by Tesla (who are incidentally not without issues) - companies should aspire to work towards the current benchmark that they have set. Each to his own. As a consumer you may be far more forgiving then I am, and this is of course fine. ?

 

[JodyS21]

Why?

The capacity is the same, therefore what you bought is the same. The warranty is the same. They are being proactive unlike most car makers out there. It’s an improvement. Why do they need to justify improving your car. The fact that the car you have now is better than the one you bought is a bonus. They have listened to owners and tried to implement what they are able to. All software releases I’ve ever seen have needed iterative updates. At least they owned up to the issues and have sorted it quickly. Unlike VW with the ID3.....

Very few dealers tell you they have updated the cars software when you take it in for its yearly service.

Our problem is we are looking at it like a computer/phone and most of the time we are given release notes as to what has changed.

MG/SAIC is still a legacy car maker with that mindset.

We have been spoilt by Tesla. I blame Tesla for all these problems.

I don't think this is valid.
If these people car's have been given to them with a massive fundamental flaw in the battery management system, that will cause them to damage the battery and loose large amounts of their usable battery capacity as they use the car, a public recall should be issued.
I'd not thought about it before, but that is correct under UK law that the car does not have serviced by MG and, therefore would never get the fundamental issue fixed unless an official recall was issued.

Yes, MG could just leave all these peoples cars to eventually have "useless" battery capacity in them and, then have to fix them under the 70% 7 year warranty, but this is clearly a ridiculous and unacceptable situation to let happen.
I'd have thought that this must contravene some law on products being sold as fit for purpose etc.

 

[Mike]

You have proof that it has damaged the battery? Please share

Fundamental flaw? Really? Why is this a fundamental flaw when they have issued a fix, very quickly.

I’ll have to agree to disagree with you.

As to servicing there are several advantages to using MG over an independent garage.

1. the techs have been trained. If not they should not be allowed near the car!

2. all software updates for the car will be applied.

3. the inspection includes the bodywork check which is required to keep the 7 year warranty.

4. You get a free years AA cover for breakdown etc.

5. you get an MG bear

6. The cost is very reasonable in my experience.

7. Having the car serviced by MG will help if you have any warranty issues down the line.

For the little that you save going Independant, I personally don’t think it is worth it.

 

[Mike]

You raise some very interesting points. I’m pretty sure the question was around knowing if the latest BMS update is being applied to all cars - as far as I know this has not been clarified. You keep saying MG are being proactive - how? By updating their software? How is the latest BMS software an improvement? Notwithstanding the issues that previous versions caused. What is the benefit to the customer? How is the car better than the one you purchased? I don’t see your logic I’m afraid. You mention MG have listened to owners - do you have evidence of this? How have they accomplished this and can this be a transparent ongoing activity? I don’t know what you mean by iterative updates to software releases. Modern EV’s are more like IT equipment - that is one of the main issues that dealers are not embracing - we should have release notes. Far from being spoilt by Tesla (who are incidentally not without issues) - companies should aspire to work towards the current benchmark that they have set. Each to his own. As a consumer you may be far more forgiving then I am, and this is of course fine. ?

Have you any idea how the 2nd generation comfort system came about?

is that not an improvement? Well it was for me. Being able to charge while unlocked. Is that not an improvement?

@MilesperkWh has confirmed the information about the battery. He works for Chorley MG. It is not worth his job lying.

 

[JodyS21]

You have proof that it has damaged the battery? Please share

Fundamental flaw? Really? Why is this a fundamental flaw when they have issued a fix, very quickly.

I’ll have to agree to disagree with you.

As to servicing there are several advantages to using MG over an independent garage.

1. the techs have been trained. If not they should not be allowed near the car!

2. all software updates for the car will be applied.

3. the inspection includes the bodywork check which is required to keep the 7 year warranty.

4. You get a free years AA cover for breakdown etc.

5. you get an MG bear

6. The cost is very reasonable in my experience.

7. Having the car serviced by MG will help if you have any warranty issues down the line.

For the little that you save going Independant, I personally don’t think it is worth it.

I agree, I would definitely take it to official MG dealer for its services.

Obviously people will disagree which is perfectly fine

I do think it is pretty obvious that there is a fundamental flaw though, that we are all very well aware of!
Maybe saying damaging the battery is not the correct wording, causing reduced capacity would be correct. I have no idea if it would actually damage the cells quicker than normal cycling does eventually to all batteries.

The batteries with the faulty BMS update are becoming very out of balance and therefore are not allowing the proper full intended usable capacity, over time it is causing people's cars batteries to get even worse and worse.
That is by definition a fundamental flaw in the battery management software.
Which is why agree with others that a proper official recall should be issued.