AEB and Front Collision Assist

[macd2401]

Ok.... Just go get a big cardboard box , wrap it with aluminium foil and try driving into that.....if it doesn't brake...be worried....

I'm sure somebody (may have been GoGreenAutos on YT) tested it doing exactly that...but it didn't work.

 

[Lobogris]

I'm sure somebody (may have been GoGreenAutos on YT) tested it doing exactly that...but it didn't work.

Thank for the reference. I did check that video and you are correct it failed every test. I have a hunch that it mostly works when using MG Pilot as it knows it has to focus on the vehicle ahead. However when the Pilot or ACC is off, it is sort of a hit or miss.

 

[Kithmo]

FWIW, mine works fine with Auto pilot off.

 

[macd2401]

Same here. Mine nearly made me faceplant into the steering wheel the other week when somebody stopped dead in front of me. I was already going for the pedal, but it beat me to the stop. Only use MG Pilot on the motorway, and even then, only sometimes. This was on a regular main road.

 

[Lobogris]

Same here. Mine nearly made me faceplant into the steering wheel the other week when somebody stopped dead in front of me. I was already going for the pedal, but it beat me to the stop. Only use MG Pilot on the motorway, and even then, only sometimes. This was on a regular main road.

I suppose I wasn't able to really test it by getting as close as necessary due to the need to leave some margin for safety. Perhaps it only works at the absolute last moment which is hard to simulate in real traffic. I don't know why it failed to repeatedly detect the large cardboard boxes in the video. I would also prefer it to provide a warning a little earlier when possible but I can see how that could irritate people.

 

[Taliano2]

Hi, apart of all the comments above, I'm not involved.
But, I drive in London roads every day, and in my ZS EV ,it's working as should bee.
Almost every day, the Emergency Break System, save me to crash my car.

 

[Vattaa]

Could you not test it with a stack of cardboard boxes in a carpark

 

[SCB86]

The AEB is meant to intervene at the absolute last moment to make sure that drivers don't rely on the system. Most people will panic and hit the brakes before the AEB deems it needs to intervene.
It works with or without MG Pilot and the sensitivity is the same. The only thing you can adjust is how early you get a warning, and even then the car defaults to medium every time you restart the car.

 

[Lobogris]

The AEB is meant to intervene at the absolute last moment to make sure that drivers don't rely on the system. Most people will panic and hit the brakes before the AEB deems it needs to intervene.
It works with or without MG Pilot and the sensitivity is the same. The only thing you can adjust is how early you get a warning, and even then the car defaults to medium every time you restart the car.

Thanks for the explanation. I think you are correct. I wasn’t able to simulate this as it is not possible to get so close to another vehicle in a safe manner. Nevertheless, I was hoping that it would provide some warning earlier at a stage where the driver could still react and apply the brakes.

 

[Lobogris]

Could you not test it with a stack of cardboard boxes in a carpark

This was tried by GoGreen Autos in a YouTube video referenced earlier in this thread. Each time the MG ZS failed to brake and crashed into the boxes. See the link below. The MG is tested towards the end of this video.

 

[Kithmo]

This was tried by GoGreen Autos in a YouTube video referenced earlier in this thread. Each time the MG ZS failed to brake and crashed into the boxes. See the link below. The MG is tested towards the end of this video.

Of course it doesn't work., two reasons I can see.
1) AFAIK the AEB is cancelled if you brake manually, he chickened out before the AEB cut in.
2) He lined the boxes with foil then covered the foil with cloth
Picked this up on Google.
Materials such as metal are strongly radar reflective and tend to produce strong signals. Wood and cloth (such as portions of planes and balloons used to be commonly made) or plastic and fibreglass are less reflective or indeed transparent to radar making them suitable for radomes.

 

[Lobogris]

Of course it doesn't work., two reasons I can see.
1) AFAIK the AEB is cancelled if you brake manually, he chickened out before the AEB cut in.
2) He lined the boxes with foil then covered the foil with cloth
Picked this up on Google.
Materials such as metal are strongly radar reflective and tend to produce strong signals. Wood and cloth (such as portions of planes and balloons used to be commonly made) or plastic and fibreglass are less reflective or indeed transparent to radar making them suitable for radomes.

If you see the first part of the video, he didn't use the foil. Only when the vehicle crashed into the boxes repeatedly did he think of using a foil. I believe he didn't brake at all at least the very first time. I obviously braked far sooner than that so I suppose no chance of seeing a warning.

 

[Exdro]

Not at all. It was done in an absolutely safe manner. As I explained, instead of braking and coasting from a longer distance, I behaved like a more aggressive driver and applied brakes a little later but well within the margin of safety. When I said I pretended to crash into parked cars, please see the word used, ‘pretended’, not actually attempted to crash. If you want to twist this into something unsafe then that is up to you. By your logic, anyone trying out the autonomous driving on a Tesla is also practicing unsafe and stupid driving even if he or she remains vigilant and ready to intervene. All I did was to approach the vehicle a little closer than normal to see if the system would warn me or apply the brakes. The point where I manually applied them was still well within the margin of safety. However the system wouldn’t know this and it would appear as if the driver had not noticed the vehicle in front. That is what I meant by pretending to crash.

 

[Lobogris]

??

 

[Exdro]

Not at all. It was done in an absolutely safe manner. As I explained, instead of braking and coasting from a longer distance, I behaved like a more aggressive driver and applied brakes a little later but well within the margin of safety. When I said I pretended to crash into parked cars, please see the word used, ‘pretended’, not actually attempted to crash. If you want to twist this into something unsafe then that is up to you. By your logic, anyone trying out the autonomous driving on a Tesla is also practicing unsafe and stupid driving even if he or she remains vigilant and ready to intervene. All I did was to approach the vehicle a little closer than normal to see if the system would warn me or apply the brakes. The point where I manually applied them was still well within the margin of safety. However the system wouldn’t know this and it would appear as if the driver had not noticed the vehicle in front. That is what I meant by pretending to crash.

“Coasting” has been covered in other posts and is generally accepted as being dangerous and not a driving technique to be encouraged. Probably slightly less dangerous than accelerating up to other cars and hoping that an automatic braking system will work.

 

[Lobogris]

“Coasting” has been covered in other posts and is generally accepted as being dangerous and not a driving technique to be encouraged. Probably slightly less dangerous than accelerating up to other cars and hoping that an automatic braking system will work.

We are rekindling this needless debate again. I wish you would carefully read what I have explained several times in detail. If the stopping distance at 20kmph is 8 feet, normally when I see a stationary vehicle ahead or a traffic light, I would start coasting towards it from over a few hundred feet (if no one is behind me) and would start applying brakes at at least 20 to 30 feet distance. This time to test the system, I applied brakes a little later, say at 12 to 15 feet distance trying to make the system think I was not paying attention. It was well before the 8 feet needed to stop safely and I stopped without any issues with several feet to spare. I didn’t go around doing this everywhere. Once I used a double parked SUV and once I tried this at a traffic light. It was like using the adaptive cruise or traffic jam assist where you let the vehicle get closer to the vehicle in the front waiting for the system to brake even though you can see that you need to stop. Obviously I was super vigilant and braked well before there was any danger of a collision. There was no risk to anyone and I was driving at 20 to 25 kmph which is around 12 to 15mph. So even if I had misjudged it, all that would have happened would be a very minor fender bender. It could be compared to briefly tailgating someone for a few seconds rather than keeping the required distance. Yes, there is obviously a slight risk but practically negligible if you are vigilant and it is brief. Most people drive much worse by tailgating at high speeds on the highways.

Take a look at this video from the Midlands and see how people drive on the motorways at high speeds:

 

[Kithmo]

If you see the first part of the video, he didn't use the foil. Only when the vehicle crashed into the boxes repeatedly did he think of using a foil. I believe he didn't brake at all at least the very first time. I obviously braked far sooner than that so I suppose no chance of seeing a warning.

With or without the foil cardboard and cloth are almost blind to radar.
What I was saying is he put foil on, which may have had a chance of working if it's metallic, but then he covered it up with cloth.

 

[SCB86]

With or without the foil cardboard and cloth are almost blind to radar.
What I was saying is he put foil on, which may have had a chance of working if it's metallic, but then he covered it up with cloth.

Only an AEB system that uses LIDAR (VW group cars such as the Citigo - I tested my Mom's Citigo AEB with a big TV box and it worked)) can "see" object's like this. As you say radar just penetrates anything that's not solid and it has to be reflective enough for the radar to pick up.
Most systems use sensor fusion - camera and radar and some like my Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross use camera, radar AND LiDAR!