Any better overnight tariffs?

[Ruislip Resident]

Only problem at the moment is that we expected prices to fall again in October which will make them cheaper that all these tarrifs. They all have exit fees as well.

The British Gas one has no exit fees.

 

[DBedford]

Only problem at the moment is that we expected prices to fall again in October which will make them cheaper that all these tarrifs. They all have exit fees as well.

Prices are expected to go back UP by the end of the year, and this time without the £400 Government support!

No exit fees with British Gas EV tariff.

 

[Gadget Geek]

Thats not good way to compare tariffs, it depends on the use in each time period, your comparison uses just 24 kWh per day (1kWh per hour). If for example you use 40 kWh off peak and 10 KWh during the peak the outcome is very different.

I don't know about you, but I adjust my usage to fit the tariff. If I only have 4 hours of off peak, I'm not going to set the charger to run for 5 hours. I would have thought that was obvious.

The calculation example I used was to give a baseline comparison between tariffs with different times of use. Once I've found the most economic then I would adjust my weekly routine to fit.

4 hours at 9 pence sounds like a better deal than 10 hours at 12 pence, until you do the maths. That was the calculation I was trying to demonstrate.

 

[DBedford]

I don't know about you, but I adjust my usage to fit the tariff. If I only have 4 hours of off peak, I'm not going to set the charger to run for 5 hours. I would have thought that was obvious.

The calculation example I used was to give a baseline comparison between tariffs with different times of use. Once I've found the most economic then I would adjust my weekly routine to fit.

4 hours at 9 pence sounds like a better deal than 10 hours at 12 pence, until you do the maths. That was the calculation I was trying to demonstrate.

Agree Gadget Geek, gives a good over view .

johnb80 said:
Thats not good way to compare tariffs...
Nothings perfect John...but its a starter for 10

I've attached the EVM EV Tariff calculator which may help anyone who is interested. will need some tariff updating.

 

[johnb80]

I don't know about you, but I adjust my usage to fit the tariff. If I only have 4 hours of off peak, I'm not going to set the charger to run for 5 hours. I would have thought that was obvious.

I only use off peak so the peak price is insignificant for me. Using just 1kWh every hour to compare the cost of the tariffs really misleading though, that's the point I was making. It can identify a tariff as being cheaper but ibn reality one the others is a better choice as per the numbers I demonstrated.

The calculation example I used was to give a baseline comparison between tariffs with different times of use. Once I've found the most economic then I would adjust my weekly routine to fit.

Thats the point though, you'd adjust your routine to use 1 kWh day & night? Thats unrealistic. You really have to take the % split between peak and off peak to have any hope of doing a good comparison.

 

[Ian Key]

You need to base the figures on your annual usage as you will use more power in the winter.
I was already on an Economy 7 tariff so it was easy to get my annual consumption figures from my supplier and from charging my car over the last couple of months I could also estimate the additional usage.
The maths then become simple especially if set up on a spread sheet making it easy to compare different tariffs and if you are a dual fuel costermer and get your gas from the same supplier don't forget to add that into the comparison.

(annual daytime kWh x price per kWh) + (annual off peak kWh x price per kWh) + (standing charge x 365) = annual cost of electricity.

 

[Gadget Geek]

Thats the point though, you'd adjust your routine to use 1 kWh day & night? Thats unrealistic. You really have to take the % split between peak and off peak to have any hope of doing a good comparison.

The 1kWh is a baseline figure to make the comparison easier regardless of how many kWh you would actually use. If you take the results in my calculation and multiply them by actual usage figures, the ratio of cost per kWh doesn't change.

I notice you didn't quote my last comment which sums up that the lowest off peak figure isn't neccessarily the cheapest overall tariff.

My calculation gives a baseline figure, whereas yours gives a usage figure. Both are useful, it just depends how complicated people want to make it for themselves..

 

[DBedford]

The 1kWh is a baseline figure to make the comparison easier regardless of how many kWh you would actually use. If you take the results in my calculation and multiply them by actual usage figures, the ratio of cost per kWh doesn't change.

I notice you didn't quote my last comment which sums up that the lowest off peak figure isn't neccessarily the cheapest overall tariff.

My calculation gives a baseline figure, whereas yours gives a usage figure. Both are useful, it just depends how complicated people want to make it for themselves..

The 1kWh is a baseline figure to make the comparison easier regardless of how many kWh you would actually use. If you take the results in my calculation and multiply them by actual usage figures, the ratio of cost per kWh doesn't change.

I notice you didn't quote my last comment which sums up that the lowest off peak figure isn't neccessarily the cheapest overall tariff.

My calculation gives a baseline figure, whereas yours gives a usage figure. Both are useful, it just depends how complicated people want to make it for themselves..

Agree GG ??

 

[Gadget Geek]

(annual daytime kWh x price per kWh) + (annual off peak kWh x price per kWh) + (standing charge x 365) = annual cost of electricity.

I have just started working on a spreadsheet to put in standing charge, peak rate, off peak rate, and annual usage to get an accurate annual figure and have found the problem with using annual usage as a guide.

My annual off peak usage last year was 6769kWh for 90 hours a week off peak. If I move to 4 hours a night off peak, that would mean I would have to squeeze 90 hours a week of off peak usage into just 28 hours. I'm going to try and build that into the spread sheet to account for the difference.

If I succeed, I'll post the spreadsheet for people to try.

 

[Gadget Geek]

This spreadsheet is going to take some work, but I've used a calculator to work out the formula. The results are interesting and show how time-of-use and usage patterns can skew the results.

I had to take my annual off peak usage (6769) and divide it by 365 days (18.545205479), then by 10 hours a day to get my hourly off peak usage (1.854520548kWh).

I then multiplied that by 4 to get the Octopus Go daily off peak usage (7.418082192) and multiplied by 365 (2707.599999934).

I then subtracted the Octopus Go usage from the EDF usage (6769−2707.599) and got 4061.401kWh, which would now have to go into the peak rate.

The overall results were; EDF = £1,141.41
Octopus Go = £1,385.32

 

[DBedford]

This spreadsheet is going to take some work, but I've used a calculator to work out the formula. The results are interesting and show how time-of-use and usage patterns can skew the results.

I had to take my annual off peak usage (6769) and divide it by 365 days (18.545205479), then by 10 hours a day to get my hourly off peak usage (1.854520548kWh).

I then multiplied that by 4 to get the Octopus Go daily off peak usage (7.418082192) and multiplied by 365 (2707.599999934).

I then subtracted the Octopus Go usage from the EDF usage (6769−2707.599) and got 4061.401kWh, which would now have to go into the peak rate.

The overall results were; EDF = £1,141.41
Octopus Go = £1,385.32

Please see the spreadsheet I posted above constructed by the EVM, it should do what you want. ?

 

[Gadget Geek]

This is the one I've put together. I'm no expert on spreadsheets but through trial and error it seems to work.

The orange row is for your current provider against which the other providers will be compared. Column 1 is for the name of the tariff.

Prices should be entered as decimals (ie, 55 pence = 0.55.
9 pence = 0.09, etc).

Enter the peak and off peak hours for each tariff and it should adjust your consumption figures to account for the difference.

 

[johnb80]

The 1kWh is a baseline figure to make the comparison easier regardless of how many kWh you would actually use. If you take the results in my calculation and multiply them by actual usage figures, the ratio of cost per kWh doesn't change.

Just like an elastic tape measure, theyre pretty much meaningless, as proved with figures I showed. The only way to do an accurate comparison is with your annual figures, if your usage is heavily weighted to the off peak (mine are) the price difference in the off peak becomes significant. If your split is 60 /40 then the peak price will be significant.

I notice you didn't quote my last comment which sums up that the lowest off peak figure isn't neccessarily the cheapest overall tariff.

I agree, it depends entirely on your energy split.

My calculation gives a baseline figure, whereas yours gives a usage figure. Both are useful, it just depends how complicated people want to make it for themselves..

Baseline figure for what? how would it be of any use? I'm probably not explaining myself very well and I apologise if I'm offending you, I dont mean to. I do feel people will see your idea of 1kW and hour in each peak and off peak and look at the price but they may be mislead into not the best tariff because of their usage pattern

I'll shut up now, people wont want to listen to me on my soapbox.

J

 

[tsedge]

I want to listen to you John.

I think your analysis is more realistic. There may be some value in a 50:50 split but I highly doubt most people have that distribution of usage.

 

[Kayged]

This spreadsheet is going to take some work, but I've used a calculator to work out the formula. The results are interesting and show how time-of-use and usage patterns can skew the results.

I had to take my annual off peak usage (6769) and divide it by 365 days (18.545205479), then by 10 hours a day to get my hourly off peak usage (1.854520548kWh).

I then multiplied that by 4 to get the Octopus Go daily off peak usage (7.418082192) and multiplied by 365 (2707.599999934).

I then subtracted the Octopus Go usage from the EDF usage (6769−2707.599) and got 4061.401kWh, which would now have to go into the peak rate.

The overall results were; EDF = £1,141.41
Octopus Go = £1,385.32

I was with EDF until Wednesday when I moved to Eon to take advantage of their EV tariff, which although it is 9.5p off peak, you get from midnight to 7am and the peak rate is 33p.

 

[ianwlk]

This spreadsheet is going to take some work, but I've used a calculator to work out the formula. The results are interesting and show how time-of-use and usage patterns can skew the results.

I had to take my annual off peak usage (6769) and divide it by 365 days (18.545205479), then by 10 hours a day to get my hourly off peak usage (1.854520548kWh).

I then multiplied that by 4 to get the Octopus Go daily off peak usage (7.418082192) and multiplied by 365 (2707.599999934).

I then subtracted the Octopus Go usage from the EDF usage (6769−2707.599) and got 4061.401kWh, which would now have to go into the peak rate.

The overall results were; EDF = £1,141.41
Octopus Go = £1,385.32

Just like an elastic tape measure, theyre pretty much meaningless, as proved with figures I showed. The only way to do an accurate comparison is with your annual figures, if your usage is heavily weighted to the off peak (mine are) the price difference in the off peak becomes significant. If your split is 60 /40 then the peak price will be significant.


I agree, it depends entirely on your energy split.


Baseline figure for what? how would it be of any use? I'm probably not explaining myself very well and I apologise if I'm offending you, I dont mean to. I do feel people will see your idea of 1kW and hour in each peak and off peak and look at the price but they may be mislead into not the best tariff because of their usage pattern

I'll shut up now, people wont want to listen to me on my soapbox.

J

I agree that a more typical load profile would be more useful. Also quoting figures to 9 decimal places is positively unhelpful.

 

[Kayged]

The British Gas one has no exit fees.

I was going to have a look at the British Gas EV tariff but I could not find out what their peak tariff was so I went with eon as I have been with them before and I am hoping that their website is still as good as it used to be. I was moved to EDF when my provider went under and I was with them for 3 months before I found out what they were charging me and it is impossible to see if you are in credit or debit without doing your own calculations.

 

[Gadget Geek]

Just like an elastic tape measure, theyre pretty much meaningless, as proved with figures I showed. The only way to do an accurate comparison is with your annual figures, if your usage is heavily weighted to the off peak (mine are) the price difference in the off peak becomes significant. If your split is 60 /40 then the peak price will be significant.


I agree, it depends entirely on your energy split.


Baseline figure for what? how would it be of any use? I'm probably not explaining myself very well and I apologise if I'm offending you, I dont mean to. I do feel people will see your idea of 1kW and hour in each peak and off peak and look at the price but they may be mislead into not the best tariff because of their usage pattern

I'll shut up now, people wont want to listen to me on my soapbox.

J

No offense taken. I think there is a little lack of clarity on both sides. I see it as a maths problem which you reduce to the lowest common denominator. How much does one unit of energy cost for each hour of peak and off peak.

For EDF compared to Octopus Go on the baseline calculation, EDF was 5% cheaper. When I put my actual annual usage into the calculation, EDF was 19% cheaper, which shows that the former gives you an indication, and the latter gives you the proof.

I've always enjoyed a lively debate, so please don't stop.
Alan.

 

[Ruislip Resident]

I was going to have a look at the British Gas EV tariff but I could not find out what their peak tariff was so I went with eon as I have been with them before and I am hoping that their website is still as good as it used to be. I was moved to EDF when my provider went under and I was with them for 3 months before I found out what they were charging me and it is impossible to see if you are in credit or debit without doing your own calculations.

Its 30.732 pence for peak.

 

[gus]

EDF are driving me crackers, smart meters but you can’t see the readings unless you take your own readings, they only tell you where you are bill wise twice a year, 8p overnight tariff is good, but I would like to feel a bit more in control, might have to look at Eon.