Are ICE cars really cheaper than EVs ?

[maskull]

However ... cost of ownership is much more interesting. BEV prices are heavily front-loaded. An ICE car can easily come in at £1,000 a service every year. Not to mention the price of fuel (despite a Chancellor who doesn't understand the idea of net zero).

My last ICE car (hybrid) had to be serviced every 10000 miles . The third service was over £500 . At the time I was doing over 20000 miles a year i.e 2 services a year .
My MG5 servicing schedule is 20000 a year ( which I don't come close to these days ) ,so I'm down to 1 service a year .
Add to that zero VED ( for now ) and it's certainly cheaper to run .
Also the charging infrastructure,though not great in my area ) is certainly manageable.
So no worries for me

 

[Eclectic]

I agree with everything they say,”yes ,you’re quite right, who would have guessed it” etc etc. After a minute or so, they look at you questioningly, and I smile and walk away. You look back and see the look on their face, the doubts have been sown!

 

[salty]

We are all different so it would be foolish to try to formulate a standard response to such questioning , but this is a forum, so people , lets get inventive . What would you say..... first, factual and second , oooh! I wish I'd said that.
At the time of writing I'm favouring the drama queen response of : breaking down crying and emotionally saying you're right , I didn't think or realise , I was lied to, what can I do , please help me before hugging the aggressor and wiping your runny nose on their shoulder. There , everyone's happy.

To be honest, a few have asked me "why an EV".. I just say, just fancied one, and so far, like it it a lot. That does the trick. Just can't be arsed explaining meself, to um.

 

[Gadget Geek]

"I wouldn't bother if I were you, they are just a fad and the general public is already waking up to the huge con"

"But ICE cars are SO last century . . . You stick to your antique phone with the wind up handle and seperate microphone and earpiece, I'm having me a smartphone".

 

[Archev]

We are all different so it would be foolish to try to formulate a standard response to such questioning , but this is a forum, so people , lets get inventive . What would you say..... first, factual and second , oooh! I wish I'd said that.
At the time of writing I'm favouring the drama queen response of : breaking down crying and emotionally saying you're right , I didn't think or realise , I was lied to, what can I do , please help me before hugging the aggressor and wiping your runny nose on their shoulder. There , everyone's happy.

It’ll certainly be a large saving on handkerchiefs - a hidden benefit of the ev transition

 

[Alibro]

Well of course they are....aren't they ?

Yes EVs are expensive, mostly, but I have been astounded by the price of new cars in general for some time. One of the many reasons I bought my first EV in 2020 was down to price. It was cheaper to my new ZS EV than to buy a Ford Focus, or any other mid-size family'ish' car with any sort of decent spec.
So how are things now. I have just been looking at a website which gives the list price for cars for company car tax purposes. No-one of course pays full list price but that's the same for EVS or ICE but I found it fascinating. I think we sometimes forget, or simply don't realise just how expensive new cars are now.

For example

Poverty spec Ford Focus base model no options selected - Focus 1.0L EcoBoost mHEV ST-Line 125PS - list price wait for it £29,330
Top spec no options added - Focus 1.0L EcoBoost mHEV Titanium X 155PS Auto £32,550

Vauxhall Astra again base spec no options added - Astra 1.2 Design 110PS Turbo £26.970
Top spec Astra no options added -1.2 Ultimate 130PS Turbo Auto £34,980

These aren't glamorous cars so are EVs really that expensive?

Have a play find some examples, select a car then variant via dropdowns and then click 'configure options' for the retail price.

Prices & Options

For finding out everything there is to know about company cars.

comcar.co.uk

At least one of these cars has a ticking time bomb under the bonnet called a wet belt (Timing belt runs in the oil)!
Designed to last just over 100k miles before it grenades the engine but frequently going off prematurely at 60k and less.
If you are ever in the market for a cheap runabout for SWMBO or junior then run away from anything with a wet belt!

 

[mg4mc]

Agreed, or at least a wet belt that hasn't been replaced recently. A stupid design decision in my mind.

 

[Rolfe]

I've no idea what sort of belt/chain my Golf had, but I'm pretty sure that's what went at 35,000 miles.

I tend to say, "Well, I needed a new car and I didn't want to buy into a dying technology. I also really fancied the cheap running and maintenance costs." If the conversion continues I'll mention the extreme convenience of overnight charging.

 

[T1 Terry]

I reached the point of avoiding anything over head cam that didn't have a chain .... at least you could hear that when it was time to replace it and with a bit if fiddling around, the replacement chain could be joined to the old chain and threaded around ....... the new chain didn't last as long because the teeth were worn, but by then the guides and tensioner needed replacing ..... it the things was still going that is

After trashing a motor in a Holden Barina because the water pump seized and tore the teeth of the belt so the valves hit the pistons, that was the last belt drive for me

T1 Terry

Agreed, or at least a wet belt that hasn't been replaced recently. A stupid design decision in my mind.

Built in failure point, it would be interesting to take a case to the courts on the grounds "Not fit for purpose" ....... when the oil pump belt failed and lunched the engine.

I'm guessing it is all part of making the engine a throw away item, the plastic sumps and tappet covers that are one use items and an oil pickup that is glued into the bottom of the plastic sump so it can never be cleaned ......

They know the ICE is living on borrowed time, so why make it last when you can make it cheap. When they extract big HP from 1 ltr engines, they know they won't last, but they don't care, they get to sell another vehicle when that one disintegrates .......

T1 Terry

 

[Alibro]

Agreed, or at least a wet belt that hasn't been replaced recently. A stupid design decision in my mind.

I would say if the belt has been replaced then the engine has probably already been damaged through oil starvation so the best advice is stay well away from any car with a wet belt.
The issue is the belt does not break rather degrades over time releasing small bits of rubber that block the oil pickup resulting in oil starvation. It might fail completely eventually if the owner drives on regardless of the warning lights but by then it's toast anyway.
And good luck finding a good used engine as they are snapped up the moment they become available.
Like anything you will always hear anecdotal stories of these cars doing 100k plus miles but they are very much in the minority. Frequent oil changes with the exact correct grade of oil are critical for any kind of long life.

 

[gazza487]

I’m at the point of just agreeing with them. Yep silly me. Even when you present facts like the actual charging costs they come out with it’ll need a new battery in 3 years or they all burst into flames. Saving my breath now.

 

[salty]

I’m at the point of just agreeing with them. Yep silly me. Even when you present facts like the actual charging costs they come out with it’ll need a new battery in 3 years or they all burst into flames. Saving my breath now.

Agreed. Can't reason, with an idiot.

 

[T1 Terry]

Agreed. Can't reason, with an idiot.

The quote “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience” is attributed to Mark Twain.

Explanation
The quote is a warning against arguing with someone who is not as intelligent as you, as they may be able to use their experience to defeat you. It may also be a reminder that people who are watching the argument may not be able to tell the difference between the two people involved.

T1 Terry

 

[Peterboat]

Discussion with an EV hater is like playing chess with a pigeon, he knocks the pieces over sxxxs on the board and walks off thinking he has won

 

[Archev]

I've not idea what sort of belt/chain my Golf had, but I'm pretty sure that's what went at 35,000 miles.

Ouch.

Discussion with an EV hater is like playing chess with a pigeon, he knocks the pieces over sxxxs on the board and walks off thinking he has won

Coo

 

[Corindikev]

I've not had anyone rubbish my car but I've been asked a number of times how much it costs to run & how long it takes to charge. My simple explanation is that it costs nothing to run as it runs on sunshine. A few have just accepted that which I found a bit odd. Most say "whadayamean" or similar & I explain about my solar panels etc & then never having a problem at home when the power fails.

I have almost converted a few people when I say I do a 5-600km journey in the same time as my old ICE at a fraction of the cost & in quiet comfort explaining that I only have a 2-3 hour bladder & I like to have a bite while the car charges. One or 2 have stated that they would be considering an EV next time they are in the market for a new car & given price parity is pretty close now it could be on, even though there are no longer any government incentives.

Long term though we will be slugged with road user charges. Till then I am happy to let the gas guzzlers pay.

 

[tsedge]

My standard response is: "Well done! Keep it up, don't spread the truth or they'll all want one and prices will go up. Thank you for helping to keep it quiet."

 

[decrep]

If they aren't a hater, just sort of neutral, I'll say sit there, put your foot on the brake, turn that dial to D, take your foot of the brake.
Normal response is a gasp, and OH s##t we're moving!

Then for months after, they ask me how the car's going. I tell them about starting the A/C while we finish our coffee. How I'm going to run emergency power through the house, and boil the kettle while on the road.

I've already told them it runs on sunshine.

Haven't come across a real hater yet, although some people were concerned about the fire risk when we mentioned getting one.
They seemed quite happy when we explained the facts.

 

[Archev]

If they aren't a hater, just sort of neutral, I'll say sit there, put your foot on the brake, turn that dial to D, take your foot of the brake.
Normal response is a gasp, and OH s##t we're moving!

Then for months after, they ask me how the car's going. I tell them about starting the A/C while we finish our coffee. How I'm going to run emergency power through the house, and boil the kettle while on the road.

I've already told them it runs on sunshine.

Haven't come across a real hater yet, although some people were concerned about the fire risk when we mentioned getting one.
They seemed quite happy when we explained the facts.

Four years in and I still have that revelation when I sit in

 

[T1 Terry]

Four years in and I still have that revelation when I sit in

Ownership of a Prius for around 8 yrs has taught us about that .... but the first time I stopped at an intersection and the engine cut out, there was a degree of panic Driving 700kms on 40 ltrs of fuel was an eye opener, especially in a vehicle that at that stage had 600,000km on the clock.

T1 Terry