CHARGE OF THE SH**E BRIGADE

[rjhfandclf]

I thought the ER still had 11 kw charging capability. If not, that's disappointing.

I understand that the change came with the late 2023 'phase 2' or 'Facelift' version - or whatever it's called. The difference with the EU may be that (certainly in France anyway), 3-phase is much more common in domestic properties - something to do do with the overhead supply arriving in three phases (electricians please correct). Our meter is only single phase 9 kVA so we can only pull <1.7kW via the grannie. Fine for us over here.

What real use is 22kW charging in the UK? charge twice as fast over night if you have a 3 phase system (not common in the UK)? But I guess AC charging causes less wear and tear on the battery.

I always understood both single and 3-phase domestic are always AC (again electricians pls correct!)

 

[Pryde]

I understand that the change came with the late 2023 'phase 2' or 'Facelift' version - or whatever it's called. The differenc with the EU may be that (certainly in France anyway, 3-phase is much more common in domestic properties - something to do do with the overhead supply arriving in three phases (electricians please correct). Our meter is only single phase 9 kVa so we can only pull <1.7kWh via the grannie. Fine for us over here.


I always understood both single and 3-phase domestic are always AC (again electricians pls correct!)

Correct

 

[tsedge]

Yes, domestic supplies are always AC, the losses with DC are too great to travel any distance.

The UK tends to split the phases across different houses in the same street, so most properties get a single phase supply. In the UK, you pay only for usage with a fixed standing charge so every modern house gets an 80A or 100A fuse, so running a home charger is fine (assuming your wiring is modern).

In France, properties get all 3 phases but you are also charged by the total supply size in 3kW increments and I believe 6kW is the default - so you pay more to have a bigger fuse (well circuit breaker) as well as for the electricity you use - although I believe the price is cheaper in France due to all the Nuclear power.

Workplaces in the UK of any size usually get a 3 phase supply, so 11kW or 22kW charging could make sense here, especially supermarkets.

However, if people are at work all day, 7kW is plenty for charging and having to move cars around is a real pain, so in general lots of 7kW chargers is more practical than a handful of higher power ones.

 

[rjhfandclf]

Another small point: The extra few kW via an 11kW charger doesn’t sound much, but there are small AC chargers set-up by loads of different operators in virtually every small town/larger village in France, where there are usually a range of speeds available from 3kW two-pin schuko plugs up to 22 kW. Only really useful in emergency as they are never very cheap, with sometimes complicated structures that often include connection charges and charges/minute, viz examples – which vary much from station to station (without operator’s own pass):

Izivia: 1€/connection fee + 0,3€/kWh + between 8h and 20h : an increase of 2€/h after 2h charging. (All minutes/kWh started will be charged for)
NB The same station via Electroverse: A connection fee of £0.85 for all, then for up to 7kW connectors: £0.03/min; and for 22kW connectors: £0.34/kWh + £0.03/min

Mobive also manages many of these units for regional operators where the rates are the same for all speeds, however their own station charging does seem to be rationalising things better now.

Whichever way you work it out, that becomes much dearer the lower the charge speed. But these are just examples, and certainly cheaper 'local' stations can occasionally be found – and things are still expanding and changing fast throughout France. Although of course there is the usual public clamour to reduce the unfair prices!

 

[LenEV2016]

Charge place Scotland have loads of 22kW AC chargers, they are normally cheaper and come into their own if you are stopping somewhere for a bit of lunch/dinner etc.
Ideally between one and two hours, DC chargers would be too quick and or expensive and most probably have a time limit on how long you can use it for.

Obviously this is only useful if your car can accept this.

 

[Coulomb]

Charge place Scotland have loads of 22kW AC chargers... Obviously this is only useful if your car can accept this.

All our cars can accept AC, though none of them can use the full 22kW. The models with 7kW on-board chargers will charge at 7kW, and those with 11kW OBCs will change at 11kW, unless the chargers throttle the supply to lower speeds.

I guess you mean that in the case of an untethered EVSE ("charger"), they are only useful if you have a suitable cable, and that you have an account set up.

 

[LenEV2016]

All our cars can accept AC, though none of them can use the full 22kW. The models with 7kW on-board chargers will charge at 7kW, and those with 11kW OBCs will change at 11kW, unless the chargers throttle the supply to lower speeds.

I guess you mean that in the case of an untethered EVSE ("charger"), they are only useful if you have a suitable cable, and that you have an account set up.

Yeah I'm mean exactly that and I don't know any Scottish EV owners who don't have a charge place Scotland account.

 

[Rolfe]

I keep having to curb a philanthropic impulse to offer my card to poor benighted tourists who came unprepared. (I think the helpline sorts them out - as I left Ullapool I saw the stranded Polestar finally connected to the charger.)

 

[HazardLights]

I keep having to curb a philanthropic impulse to offer my card to poor benighted tourists who came unprepared. (I think the helpline sorts them out - as I left Ullapool I saw the stranded Polestar finally connected to the charger.)

Is there any need to get a card now that Chargeplace Scotland is on Electroverse? ...or am I just being tight

 

[Rolfe]

Not sure. Every time I had to phone the helpline I had to give my details and the number of my CPS card. Don't know how the conversation would have gone if I hadn't had one.

 

[siteguru]

All our cars can accept AC, though none of them can use the full 22kW. The models with 7kW on-board chargers will charge at 7kW, and those with 11kW OBCs will change at 11kW, unless the chargers throttle the supply to lower speeds.

I guess you mean that in the case of an untethered EVSE ("charger"), they are only useful if you have a suitable cable, and that you have an account set up.

Just a small correction ... in the MG4 (this board) the single phase cars have 6.6kW onboard chargers and will typically get up to 6.4-6.5kW charge rate. Those with 11kW onboard chargers typically get 9.8-10kW charge rate (from what I've read).

 

[rjhfandclf]

Just a small correction ... in the MG4 (this board) the single phase cars have 6.6kW onboard chargers and will typically get up to 6.4-6.5kW charge rate. Those with 11kW onboard chargers typically get 9.8-10kW charge rate (from what I've read).

Just out of curiosity, for my limited UK charging needs, I ‘force’ my single-phase Zappi charger to ‘Fast’ charge when it has to draw from the grid (because I make more from solar export than I pay for cheap rate import). I find the Zappi settles consistently to show a 7.2kW charging rate, however, that is not always reflected in the final input per session, which can sometimes even out at down to 6.9kW (averaged presumably) input rate. Not sure how this equates to what is always referred to as a 7kW onboard charger being in reality only 6.6kW – or is this yet another difference in model confusion (just to keep us all on our toes!) perhaps?

 

[Kithmo]

Just out of curiosity, for my limited UK charging needs, I ‘force’ my single-phase Zappi charger to ‘Fast’ charge when it has to draw from the grid (because I make more from solar export than I pay for cheap rate import). I find the Zappi settles consistently to show a 7.2kW charging rate, however, that is not always reflected in the final input per session, which can sometimes even out at down to 6.9kW (averaged presumably) input rate. Not sure how this equates to what is always referred to as a 7kW onboard charger being in reality only 6.6kW – or is this yet another difference in model confusion (just to keep us all on our toes!) perhaps?

FWIW, 7.2kW minus 10% losses is 6.5kW

 

[tsedge]

Yes, there are always losses, so the car will always show less energy put into the battery than the charger reports.

 

[siteguru]

I did my <10% to 100% charge last night - actually from 6%, so ~94% added.

0.94 x 50.8 = 47.75kWh

Used by my Wallbox (so delivered from grid) was 52.21kWh, so ~91.5% efficiency.

 

[rjhfandclf]

Thanks @Kithmo; and thanks @tsedge, and thanks again @siteguru (PS how do you copy these usernames properly?!)

I’ve never checked these readings very scientifically, just from the charger unit to the myenergi app report … a bit like comparing ‘like with itself’ perhaps? When I get home, I will do a proper check on reality on a full charge post-trip, using car data. (NB Currently in France ‘enjoying’ home granny-ing on a dedicated 16A schuko socket at all of 1.7kW! ... fine for local purposes but not cheap though at 0.19€ (15.8p) +20%VAT!!!)

 

[rjhfandclf]

Further PS ... I've just come across this rather useful website (OK _ I'm probably the last to find it!) and have taken a quick snapshot of the Trophy ER info. I'm sure it's all available elsewhere, but for anyone else new to it, it does have some interesting comparison features.

NB It's a Dutch site, and I can't find any copyright info - so apologies for any infringement and all credit to Electric Vehicle Database.

 

[Joules]

Hi Rolfe, I've attached a screenshot of the MG4 spec sheet. The on board charger is 7kw on the whole range, I thought the XPower was higher, but there you go?
Still a great car.

 

[siteguru]

Hi Rolfe, I've attached a screenshot of the MG4 spec sheet. The on board charger is 7kw on the whole range, I thought the XPower was higher, but there you go?View attachment 31191
Still a great car.

Where did that come from? The SE SR certainly does not have a 7kW onboard charger - it is 6.6kW. ?‍

 

[rjhfandclf]

Where did that come from? The SE SR certainly does not have a 7kW onboard charger - it is 6.6kW. ?‍

Quite right. Looks like the handbook to me! MG generalisation and marketing overstatement. Bit of a shame really since "11kW" got reduced to "7kW" in the new Trophy range ... even that was an overstatement! (Note heavy inverted commas.)