Charging across Europe

At long last, this weird late summer/autumn broke into real warm sunshine for a few days and we took Beetlejuice up into the heart of the Pyrenees for a couple of days for her first proper jaunt there … and I am really very impressed at the performance in every way. The Pyrenees are not as high as the Alps perhaps, but very steep in places, and we tested her up the 2115m Col du Tourmalet pass – famous (and sometimes infamous too) as the most emblematic of Tour de France top category climbs. BLJ simply skipped up – and down of course. (Just don’t understand the problem with these cyclists!!)

Col du Tourmalet.jpg


After the Col we descended, then up again into the central massif to tour around in a circle, with overnight backdrop of the magical Cirque de Gavarnie with its 422m drop waterfall – the 2nd highest in mainland Europe.

Anyway, some rather interesting statistics from the relatively short 243km (151m) trip ... We start from being only 50km (30m) directly north of the mountains, but at only 250m alt, and as we were generally in sightseeing mode, we seldom drove above 80kph and the avge was nearer half of that, so we were hoping to see good consumption rates. We always use max regen and Normal mode (MG recommends Sport for mountains – no idea why). And as @EVsince2016 has already mentioned further above, the regen obtained over these long mountain descents is amazing, and we saw the SOC rise by 4% (+3kW) over the 18km descent from the Col to Luz-Saint-Sauveur (see photo above).:

Day 1: SOC at 100%. 120km in total. First 50km, down then generally flat with only a gentle rise, then increasingly steeper climbing 1865m to the Col at 85km. Then continuously down – up – down etc., right through to the homeward leg next day. SOC at end of first day was 71% so 29% or approx. 21.5kW used = 18kW/100km (3.5m/kW). Very pleased with that in view of all the climbing.

Day 2: SOC at 71%. 123km in total. First 50km, down towards Lourdes was a long continuous meandering descent of sufficient gradient to give us almost continuous regen – quite extraordinary – the first dozen km we were well into negative territory, and by Lourdes, our overall consumption rate was averaging out down to 5kW/100km (12.5m/kW)! And by the time we got home, the final figures registered for Day 2 were 58% SOC, so just 13% used (9.5kW) or 7.9kW/100km (coincidentally also = 7.9m/kW!)

Overall: The 243 km trip returned 31kW (42%) used at 12.75kW/100km or 4.9m/kW (if all my maths are correct!)
 
rjhfandclf said:
At long last, this weird late summer/autumn broke into real warm sunshine for a few days and we took Beetlejuice up into the heart of the Pyrenees for a couple of days for her first proper jaunt there … and I am really very impressed at the performance in every way. The Pyrenees are not as high as the Alps perhaps, but very steep in places, and we tested her up the 2115m Col du Tourmalet pass – famous (and sometimes infamous too) as the most emblematic of Tour de France top category climbs. BLJ simply skipped up – and down of course. (Just don’t understand the problem with these cyclists!!)

View attachment 31132

After the Col we descended, then up again into the central massif to tour around in a circle, with overnight backdrop of the magical Cirque de Gavarnie with its 422m drop waterfall – the 2nd highest in mainland Europe.

Anyway, some rather interesting statistics from the relatively short 243km (151m) trip ... We start from being only 50km (30m) directly north of the mountains, but at only 250m alt, and as we were generally in sightseeing mode, we seldom drove above 80kph and the avge was nearer half of that, so we were hoping to see good consumption rates. We always use max regen and Normal mode (MG recommends Sport for mountains – no idea why). And as @EVsince2016 has already mentioned further above, the regen obtained over these long mountain descents is amazing, and we saw the SOC rise by 4% (+3kW) over the 18km descent from the Col to Luz-Saint-Sauveur (see photo above).:

Day 1: SOC at 100%. 120km in total. First 50km, down then generally flat with only a gentle rise, then increasingly steeper climbing 1865m to the Col at 85km. Then continuously down – up – down etc., right through to the homeward leg next day. SOC at end of first day was 71% so 29% or approx. 21.5kW used = 18kW/100km (3.5m/kW). Very pleased with that in view of all the climbing.

Day 2: SOC at 71%. 123km in total. First 50km, down towards Lourdes was a long continuous meandering descent of sufficient gradient to give us almost continuous regen – quite extraordinary – the first dozen km we were well into negative territory, and by Lourdes, our overall consumption rate was averaging out down to 5kW/100km (12.5m/kW)! And by the time we got home, the final figures registered for Day 2 were 58% SOC, so just 13% used (9.5kW) or 7.9kW/100km (coincidentally also = 7.9m/kW!)

Overall: The 243 km trip returned 31kW (42%) used at 12.75kW/100km or 4.9m/kW (if all my maths are correct!)
Click to expand...
Looks like a brilliant trip. Apparently the steepest pass in the Pyrenees!

I stayed near St Lary in 2022 and went in a loop east to Andorra over several Tour de France passes. I think many forget how brilliant the Pyrenees are! We didn't make Lourdes as time ran out & we needed a break.

Imagine an ICE recovering all those miles of energy :rolleyes:
 
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EVsince2016 said:
Looks like a brilliant trip. Apparently the steepest pass in the Pyrenees!

I stayed near St Lary in 2022 and went in a loop east to Andorra over several Tour de France passes. I think many forget how brilliant the Pyrenees are! We didn't make Lourdes as time ran out & we needed a break.

Imagine an ICE recovering all those miles of energy :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Indeed ... and another thought occurs: Presumably anyone with an EV living high up in the mountains has to remember NOT to charge up to 100% - otherwise they might lose out on regaining a few % regen when they first set off - an interesting different conundrum perhaps?!
 
EVsince2016 said:
I don't think it has live traffic but what it seems to do is provide an alternative route whenever you get stuck in traffic.
Click to expand...
We had this on our way down to and up from Paignton a couple weeks ago, wish I'd taken notice and followed.
 
Excuse me butting-in on your very interesting thread, but...

At long last I have sorted out the data from our last 6-weeks late summer/autumn trip down to the southern Gers in SW France and back home again – if of any interest. I think we have probably just about now managed to hone it down to the most efficient we can achieve. (Not included is any data re local trips/running around whilst there - such as #281 above). We aren’t aiming for record distances between charges, or excessive economy etc. – just stress-free, with only planned charging stops at best available prices. As always these days, we over-night twice on the journey each way.

The driving distance (i.e. excl Shuttle) was, curiously, virtually identical in both directions this time – 1,188 kms down and 1,186 back – as the route varies very slightly for one or two differing stops. Another relevant factor this time were the lower-than-average ambient temperatures, which dropped from around only the low 20s in early Sept down to high teens in mid-Oct – so not particularly hot or cold either way. But as always, it was raining in the Pas-de-Calais and Somme!

And finally; unfortunately, our helpful hotel that offered us FOC grannying can no longer do so because too many others are also now arriving in EVs! So, the relevant (corrected!) outcome was …

South: 1,188 kms (733 m) with total 205 kWh added @ £71 (= 5.9 p/km / 9.7 p/m)
Avge consumption: 17.3 kW/100km (3.6 m/kW) overall​
Total of 5 public charging stops (1 x IECharge, 1 x Total, 2 x Tesla, 1 x Powerdot)​

North: 1,186 kms (732 m) with total 225 kWh added @ £77 (= 6.5 p/km / 10.5 p/m)
Avge consumption: 19.0 kW/100km (3.3 m/kW) overall​
Total of 6 public charging stops (2 x IECharge, 1 x Total, 2 x Tesla, 1 x Powerdot)​
(NB I x Tesla at the Shuttle was a non-essential top-up whilst waiting)​

Overall: 2,374 kms (1,465 m) with 430 kWh added @ £148 (= 6.2 p/km / 10.1 p/m)
Avge consumption: 18.1 kW/100km (3.4 m/kW)​
Other:
  • Avge motorway (mixed speeds) consumption was 21.7 kW/100km (2.9 m/kW)
  • Avge cross-country (restricted) consumption was 15.0 kW/100km (4.2 m/kW)
  • Lowest SOC before re-charge was 28%, so fastest speed seen was 120 kWh (IECharge)
  • Avge charge cost overall was £0.34/kWh. Prices the same both ways, but some different chargers and volumes. These examples were the home data only:
  • Highest cost was TotalEnergy (Electroverse) @ £0.47/kWh (39 kWh added)
  • Lowest was IECharge (app (or Electroverse)) @ £0.225/kWh (63 kWh added)
  • Others were Tesla (app – 65 kWh added (including the non-essential ‘extra’ at the Shuttle)) and Powerdot (Electroverse –19 kWh added) both @ £0.45/kWh.
  • Away house top-up to 100% SOC costs £0.19/kWh (EDF standard) – included above
  • Home top-up to 100% SOC costs £0.126/kWh (Octopus Cosy) – included above
My old C-class Mercedes 220 CDI estate would have cost me £220 (= 9.3 p/km / 15 p/m) for this same journey and time (diesel prices have dropped so maybe now ca £200 today) – always at a cheap supermarket – but only one fill each way ... although you do still, of course, have to stop much more often anyway.

So I’m pretty content with all that (E&OE).
 
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rjhfandclf said:
Excuse me butting-in on your very interesting thread, but...
Click to expand...
Absolutely post on this thread! I don't see this as my thread but one for anyone who charges across Europe to post & help others in any way that helps.

Each of us have our own way of experiencing travel, dealing with challenges and reporting it.

I only do 1 or 2 trips a years so someone else keeping the thread alive all year would be great!
 
rjhfandclf said:
Excuse me butting-in on your very interesting thread, but...

At long last I have sorted out the data from our last 6-weeks late summer/autumn trip down to the southern Gers in SW France and back home again – if of any interest. I think we have probably just about now managed to hone it down to the most efficient we can achieve. (Not included is any data re local trips/running around whilst there - such as #281 above). We aren’t aiming for record distances between charges, or excessive economy etc. – just stress-free, with only planned charging stops at best available prices. As always these days, we over-night twice on the journey each way.

The driving distance (i.e. excl Shuttle) was, curiously, virtually identical in both directions this time – 1,188 kms down and 1,186 back – as the route varies very slightly for one or two differing stops. Another relevant factor this time were the lower-than-average ambient temperatures, which dropped from around only the low 20s in early Sept down to high teens in mid-Oct – so not particularly hot or cold either way. But as always, it was raining in the Pas-de-Calais and Somme!

And finally; unfortunately, our helpful hotel that offered us FOC grannying can no longer do so because too many others are also now arriving in EVs! So, the relevant outcome was …

South: 1,188 kms (733 m) with total 205 kWh added @ £71 (= 5.9 p/m)
Avge consumption: 17.3 kW/100km (3.6 m/kW) overall​
Total of 5 public charging stops (1 x IECharge, 1 x Total, 2 x Tesla, 1 x Powerdot)​

North: 1,186 kms (732 m) with total 225 kWh added @ £77 (= 6.5 p/m)
Avge consumption: 19.0 kW/100km (3.3 m/kW) overall​
Total of 6 public charging stops (2 x IECharge, 1 x Total, 2 x Tesla, 1 x Powerdot)​
(NB I x Tesla at the Shuttle was a non-essential top-up whilst waiting)​

Overall: 2,374 kms (1,465 m) with 430 kWh added @ £148 (= 6.2 p/m)
Avge consumption: 18.1 kW/100km (3.4 m/kW)​
Other:
  • Avge motorway (mixed speeds) consumption was 21.7 kW/100km (2.9 m/kW)
  • Avge cross-country (restricted) consumption was 15.0 kW/100km (4.2 m/kW)
  • Lowest SOC before re-charge was 28%, so fastest speed seen was 120 kWh (IECharge)
  • Avge charge cost overall was £0.34/kWh. Prices the same both ways, but some different chargers and volumes. These examples were the home data only:
  • Highest cost was TotalEnergy (Electroverse) @ £0.47/kWh (39 kWh added)
  • Lowest was IECharge (app (or Electroverse)) @ £0.25/kWh (63 kWh added)
  • Others were Tesla (app – 65 kWh added (including the non-essential ‘extra’ at the Shuttle)) and Powerdot (Electroverse –19 kWh added) both @ £0.45/kWh.
  • Away house top-up to 100% SOC costs £0.19/kWh (EDF standard) – included above
  • Home top-up to 100% SOC costs £0.126/kWh (Octopus Cosy) – included above
My old C-class Mercedes 220 CDI estate would have cost me £220 for this same journey and time (diesel prices have dropped so maybe now ca £200 today) – always at a cheap supermarket – but only one fill each way ... although you do still, of course, have to stop much more often anyway.

So I’m pretty content with all that (E&OE).
Click to expand...
Excellent, very interesting and useful.

I do however have one comment re your p/mile calcs. Looking at your numbers, those quoted are actually p/km figures.
The p/mile figures South and North should be 9.7p/mile and 10.5p/mile, overall 10.1p/mile.
Still excellent and taking nothing away from what you have done and reported.
 
Gomev said:
Excellent, very interesting and useful.

I do however have one comment re your p/mile calcs. Looking at your numbers, those quoted are actually p/km figures.
The p/mile figures South and North should be 9.7p/mile and 10.5p/mile, overall 10.1p/mile.
Still excellent and taking nothing away from what you have done and reported.
Click to expand...

Absolutely! ... mea culpa. Stupidly transposed the wrong column from what I had on my spreadsheet (put it down to an old befuddled brain) - now corrected (I hope!), but again E&OE.

I suppose to be really pedantic, I should have put the km prices/rates in euros, but since I pay for most in sterling (Electroverse & Tesla) and only IECharge in euros - and this also converted at mid-market rate ... well, frankly, I couldn't be bothered that anyone else would be that bothered - hopefully!
 
EVsince2016 said:
A very interesting post on best chargers in each country!

blog.chargemap.com

2025 ranking of the best charging networks

Discover the top 10 networks offering the best charging experience based on over 460,000 Chargemap reviews.
blog.chargemap.com blog.chargemap.com
Click to expand...

Yes; got that too. I wouldn't disagree with Tesla in France coming top overall - for reasonably good price and availability, but not always best placed or with easy facilities. Unfortunately, in the event, I find I don't need to use Chargemap, as Electroverse and direct apps cover everything for me. Just a pity though that Tesla don't partner with Electroverse yet - in fact, I'm not aware of any other charging facilities other than Chargemap that do. Anyone else know of any?

One of my favourite 'splash-&-go' stops, IECharge, doesn't feature (unsurpisingly) as although unbeatable on price and have very fast charging, they are a bit away from main routes and have no other facilities at all.

Altogether interesting.
 
Someone doing a trip to Spain as a novice!
Quite good actually! Actually, the closest to the way I travel Europe.

 
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Over in France for a brief visit a.t.m. (courtesy of Mr O'Leary this time!) where a 1st February 15% cut in domestic electricity prices has been widely advertised. No comment yet from the EV charging boys, but I gather they are expected to respond to this - at least by the government (if you can call it that). Many of course are internationally owned (including the very useful Tesla stations - which I would dearly like never to use again due to their ghastly owner), so we shall have to see ...
 
Just come across this too online ... have never heard of it before as I haven't driven in Switzerland for some years:

"Anyone who drives their vehicle in Switzerland are being warned they need to update their ‘motorway sticker’ to drive on the country’s major roads or risk a fine. The ‘vignette autoroutière’ is a sticker that must be purchased annually for any vehicle – car, motorbike, caravan, or camping car – that drives on a Swiss motorway or semi-motorway. It effectively functions as a tax for using these roads."

They cost 40 CHF annually, and can be purchased from here. There is a map of the system of roads affected here.
 
rjhfandclf said:
Many of course are internationally owned (including the very useful Tesla stations - which I would dearly like never to use again due to their ghastly owner), so we shall have to see ...
Click to expand...
No politics on this thread please.
 
rjhfandclf said:
Over in France for a brief visit a.t.m. (courtesy of Mr O'Leary this time!) where a 1st February 15% cut in domestic electricity prices has been widely advertised. No comment yet from the EV charging boys, but I gather they are expected to respond to this - at least by the government (if you can call it that). Many of course are internationally owned (including the very useful Tesla stations - which I would dearly like never to use again due to their ghastly owner), so we shall have to see ...
Click to expand...
I'd use them because of their owner, in addition to their ease of use and price.
 
I wouldn´t take Chargemap's review as gospel. I live in the North and the quoted No1:- 'Solid GmbH/Laderverbund Franken` you will only find in the south west of the country and are basically a conglomeration of small local energy companies and claim they have 1900 active charging stations.

The largest is ENBW who in 2023 had 1,000 charging locations and 700,000 partner stations across Europe and have more charging locations than Tesla.
So take this with a pinch of salt.
 
J.F.I., Connexion France has reported that:

“Three major retailers in France are planning to install 5,000 electric car charging ports in their car parks.

Supermarket Auchan, DIY store Leroy Merlin and sports retailer Decathlon, all managed by the Mulliez group, will install the stations at 350 car parks across France in collaboration with Volitalia.

Three levels of charge will be available:

Slow charging (11 kW) for €0.26/kWh

Fast charging (22-50 kW) for €0.39/kWh

Ultra-fast charging (up to 100 kW) for €0.49/kWh

The ports will belong to a new brand dubbed ‘Le Plein’ – members signed up to the service receive a discount of 10% on prices as well as other benefits.”

The embryo ‘Le Plein’ website gives no timeframe for this, but says membership (again, no cost yet quoted – that I can see) will work via app or card. I believe ‘Le Plein’ has previously worked in conjunction with Powerdot in a small way in the past.
 

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