Circular reasoning (Rolfe's solar energy system)

There's always Octopus Agile to consider to see if it meets your own circumstances. It varies in price greatly: Friday I used 37.57 kWh including topping up the car and paid 43.48 pence as it was negative for 5 hours overnight. This last week before then had been bad with little wind (or solar!) but Friday the wind arrived again to give me that average of 1.157p per unit! Looks like Sunday night will also be cheap, although apart from washing my muddy football kit from my afternoon game it doesn't look if I'll be able to take much advantage.

Over September thus far my average price has been 8.70p per kWh and as I'm also fortunate to have PV my energy bills aren't something I worry about. I also had a FIT payment of £400 for what is the best quarter, so I consider myself very lucky.
 
For how long are they fixing/guaranteeing these prices?
No idea but with no exit fees and no credit built up, I'm not bothered.

I guess maybe we will get back to the days when you changed provider all the time as new tariffs came available.
Aye, I havent been one for chasing the best deals but the price difference between Octopus and Tomato was significant and Octopus had upset me over their handling of a complaint. So far I have departed Octopus and via other forums taken almoust 90 customers with me ;)

More complicated though when you've got credit built up.
Not really a problem, I had over £700 in credit with Octopus and removed it before leaving. I still have my gas and export with Octopus for the time being.
 
No idea but with no exit fees and no credit built up, I'm not bothered.


Aye, I havent been one for chasing the best deals but the price difference between Octopus and Tomato was significant and Octopus had upset me over their handling of a complaint. So far I have departed Octopus and via other forums taken almoust 90 customers with me ;)


Not really a problem, I had over £700 in credit with Octopus and removed it before leaving. I still have my gas and export with Octopus for the time being.
From Octopus zealot to Tomato zealot in one swift move. :)
 
For how long are they fixing/guaranteeing these prices?

Interesting question!

On my Electricity Contract (with Tomato) I see the following:

ScreenShot01215.jpg


That seems to suggest it is fixed until my contract anniversary in September 2025!
 
Interesting question!

On my Electricity Contract (with Tomato) I see the following:

View attachment 30784

That seems to suggest it is fixed until my contract anniversary in September 2025!
Aye, mine's the same, but I'm not convinced their rates are fixed, I'm sure I read somewhere they could change but it makes no difference, these are the rates now and theyre the cheapest on the market AFAIK. With no exit fees, if they put their rates up, I'll have a look in the market and see what's around at the time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Aye, mines the same but I'm not convinced their rates are fixed, I'm sure I read somewhere they could change but it makes no difference, these are the rates now and theyre the cheapest on the market AFAIK. With no exit fee's if they put their rates up, I'll have a look in the market and see what's around at the time.
I'm not sure it's the rate that they change or the direct debit payments if you use more than their algorithm predicted.
 
Every week since I finally got my export tariff the value of my export has very comfortably exceeded the cost of the mains electricity I have used. I had my first export payment on 17th September which came to £130.58 for about five weeks. So that isn't bad. The mains power used includes routine car charging too. (I don't bother to count what I use from public charging, because it's still on a par with what I'd have used in petrol if I'd been doing the same trips in the Golf.)

I'm OK about the way the system works now. Sure, I'd prefer to run the house off the battery during the day and export all the solar, but what I'm doing is working. My only remaining issue is that I don't see a way to automate the export of the remaining battery content at the end of the day. I can work out a rough protocol, but the time varies from day to day depending on both how much solar there is in the early evening, and especially on how much electricity I use between the point where the solar can no longer support the house load and the point where I start to force the battery export. This means that I can't simply set it up and forget about it. I feel there should be a way to automate this, but as I've been away I haven't followed anything up.

While I was away it was possible to ignore it, because the house was just on its base load throughout the evening and the evenings weren't especially dull, so leaving the export start time at 9.30 worked fine. Once I got home I changed that back to 9.45, which gives enough leeway for a bit of cooking and for the central heating boiler to be running, as is now necessary.

This won't last though. Today is the worst day for solar I've had yet, by a mile, only 1.8 kWh. It's been overcast and raining all day and generation has struggled to support the base house load. The battery struggled up to 100% a couple of times, but then started to discharge again, and is already down to 86% at half past seven. This means, clearly, that the start of the export will have to be delayed quite a bit tonight in order not to finish before 11.30, as it will be starting from a much lower SoC.

I expect there will be plenty more days like this during the winter, and indeed days with even poorer generation. It's a royal pain to have to think about what time the export needs to start every single day. It's really the only fly in the ointment.

I note that almost every day during September I exported a bit more than I generated, by way of emptying the battery at the end of the day. The only two exceptions were the day when I tried out the "free hour" and lost an hour's export as a result, and a day when I started the battery discharge too late (Octopus had given me a start time for a charge of 10.30 and I forgot to change the start of the battery discharge to an hour earlier.) So I'm not losing out.

My main problem is a psychological one. When I was paying full whack for my electricity I didn't bother about what I switched on and when. I just paid the bill. My usage was genuinely excessive. But now I have this system I've swung to the other extreme and I'm being ridiculously parsimonious. Rightly or wrongly I feel that every kWh I use in the peak-tariff period is a kWh I could have been exporting for 15p. Why is this bothering me? I think because I paid out a fair whack of a capital sum for the system, and a little voice in my head is saying, you've got to recoup your outlay.

This is actually silly, because the point of the outlay was to allow me to go on using at about the same rate I was before (with the exception of the savings generated by switching to low-energy light bulbs, which I have decided I like after all), except much more cheaply. I expect I'll get over it and find a middle ground as I get used to using the system.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I feel there should be a way to automate this, but as I've been away I haven't followed anything up.
There is but you have to get your hands dirty and do a little programming. Home Assistant will do all what you want and more, it can be run on a Raspberry Pi but you will have a little learning to do, Youtube is your friend for this.
 
I feel your pain.
I had high hopes of learning to program a Pi and make linux scripts. But this old brain has other ideas.
I just can't remember the syntax.
Flow charts and logic aren't a problem.
I spent many years programming in Z80 Assembler Language for real time machine control, The first couple of attempts at Raspberry Pi and Arduino based projects were a dysmal failure and I gave up. Then I had another attempt at both, persevered with them and finally got success. I found it important to get the first baby step done 'Hello world' and flashing an LED. Once that was achieved build on it, each stage one baby step further. HA has a lot of videos out there to do almost anything, I chose to monitor outside air temp, inside room temps and then control my AC units by IR transmitters plugged into a 13 amp socket in each room. Then comms to my Victron Inverter were established finally logic in HA to predict amount of energy needed to midnight and export any excess. To be honest the last bit once comms are established was only about 15 lines of high level code.
 
I did Z80s with machine language at tech, then basic on a TI 49, saved to cassette tape. But I was in my 30s then it's a lot different when your fast approaching 80
Agreed, I find it much harder these days to take on new technology. Just for fun I asked chatgpt to write some code for me for a pelican crossing model;. It did it perfectly and the whole thing worked when I put it together on a breadboard. AI completely blows my mind how it works, it's just incredible. It also knows how write code for Home Assistant.
 
I spent many years programming in Z80 Assembler Language...
I did more disassembly than assembly of Z80 and other binary programs. That eventually led to a mature age PhD on decompilation. I guess you could call me a reverse engineer from down under ?.
 
In about a years time I will be installing panels (14 south facing) and battery. I am hoping that Zappi will be updated to include battery control as I could use battery to power house during day and export all solar.
 
It doesn't matter how much the house takes after the export discharge has started because the battery discharges at the maximum rate and anything over what the house needs will go as export. I could turn on a fan heater after the discharge has started and it would still end at the same time, it would just have exported less.

It's quite a simple calculation to figure out when to start the discharge depending on the SoC so that it ends a few minutes after 11.30. The system isn't set up to do it though.
 
In about a years time I will be installing panels (14 south facing) and battery. I am hoping that Zappi will be updated to include battery control as I could use battery to power house during day and export all solar.
You're approaching this from the wrong end, Zappi doesnt have nor could it have any control over the battery, it's the inverter in the system that needs to control the battery discharge. Zappi presents a load to your grid supply, your inverter will see import from the grid to feed the Zappi load and will increase its output voltage so that the energy for Zappi is fed from your solar and/or batteries. If you dont want this to happen, feed the Zappi BEFORE the CT/Meter for the Solar/Battey installation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Youre approaching this from the wrong end, Zappi doesnt have nor could it have any control over the battery, it's the inverter in the system that needs to control the battery discharge. Zappi presents a load to your grid supply, your inverter will see import from the grid to feed the Zappi load and will increase it's output voltage so that the energy for Zappi is fed from your solar and/or batteries. If you dont want this to happen, feed the Zappi BEFORE the CT/Meter for the Solar/Battey installation.
When you say 'before' here, do you mean from the perspective of the grid?

I.e. the Zappi gets its information from the point as close to the grid as possible?

Also, presumably if the battery/inverter was also myenergy (the libbi) then it would be able to communicate? Unfortunately the libbi wasn't competitively priced when I last checked.
 
When you say 'before' here, do you mean from the perspective of the grid?

I.e. the Zappi gets its information from the point as close to the grid as possible?

Also, presumably if the battery/inverter was also myenergy (the libbi) then it would be able to communicate? Unfortunately the libbi wasn't competitively priced when I last checked.
Libbi is horrendously expensive.

Wire it like this and you will be fine:

1727801185090.png
 
Support us by becoming a Premium Member

Latest MG EVs video

MG Hybrid+ EVs OVER-REVVING & more owner feedback
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom