Cyberster - what we know so far

[Jackolino]

I would like a brief explanation because I am confused about the terms Trophy and GT:
Which model is which? Is the Trophy the car with 340bhp or the car with 500bhp? It's written the wrong way round here in a few places, or at least I've misunderstood it. Please clarify. Thank you!
Greetings Stefan

 

[SunriseJak]

Hi, Actually I'm not the authority on the model names as where I am we only get the top model dual motor variant just simply called the Cyberster. ? But in some markets (UK only?) Cyberster "GT" is the dual motor all wheel drive model with 500+ hp. The "Trophy" is the single motor rear wheel drive with 300+ hp. I think they are only distinguishable by different standard wheels. I don't think the moniker of "GT" or "Trophy" labeling is found anywhere on the cars themselves. (correct?) Perhaps our MG UK friends can confirm. I also understand that the single motor has two possible battery sizes in some markets (and two different motor power variants for the rear single motor). (Correct?) The UK only gets the larger battery and the more powerful rear motor. (Correct?) My comment is since both single motor and dual motor share the same battery in this market and if the dual motor (GT) operates solely on single motor rear wheel drive while in "Comfort" mode its basically a "Trophy" with the front motor "along for the ride". ? In Sport mode (GT) both motors are in full play. Can someone from MG UK confirm my explanation please?

 

[tsedge]

I'm not from MG, but this is correct to my understanding.

 

[GranTurismoEra]

@SunriseJak have you made any videos about the car so far?

 

[SunriseJak]

Sorry I've not done any video documentation. I'm a man of many talents, but video creation is not one of them! ?

 

[Harry 17]

oooooH proper result!! My local dealership has kindly offered me the use of the Cyberster tomorrow, for up to two hours!! Whilst my 4 is being serviced, YAY ! Extremely nice of them. Can not wait, though what happened to MG saying we would have the Cyberster in summer, have you seen the weather out there??

 

[Jackolino]

Thank you SunriseJAK for your posting! Now its clear.
Stefan

 

[Anf800]

I've got 5,000 km on my GT in Thailand. I have a bit different view on the subject of Trophy vs GT. Since the Trophy is not for sale in Thailand I have no choice anyway! ? The GT in "comfort" mode is essentially a Trophy. It runs off the rear motor exclusively. The efficiency is actually quite good (depending of course on the behaviour of your right foot). I'm averaging about 6.2 km/kWh or 3.88 mi/kWh in average daily driving (primarily in "comfort" mode). Carrying around the front motor does not seem to inflict much penalty. In "sport mode" the Cyberster is now a "GT". So its a bit like 2 cars in one. Of course the efficiency takes a hit IF operated in this mode continually. But I normally select sport mode only when I "need" or "want" it. I suspect this behaviour is taken into consideration when the 15% less range is factored for the GT by MG. The Cyberster behaves differently in sport configuration. My experience is the car feels more balanced. The on/off throttle feels more direct. (responsive) The suspension feels more composed. The pull out of corners better managed. The front motor does not regen so the "off" throttle operation feels different as well. So its more than just added outright power. The Cyberster engineering hides its weight well. ? I'm fortunate to have charging from home facility, My charging habit is to charge overnight to 70- 80% and replace what I used that day. Hence I wake up with 338 or 391 km of range which I never totally use on a daily basis, hence,,, zero range anxiety. The total range still calculates at 503 km. The efficiency consideration for me is a bit of a moot point as the cost (off peak) is only 6p per kWh (plus I have some some solar contribution). For trips further than the cars range, I simply charge what I need, when I need it, based on the destination. I'm thinking the 15% added range (if true) of the Trophy is irrelevant. Lots of DC fast charge locations in Thailand too (at an average of < 17p/kWh). On a trip in (exclusively in "comfort" mode) I'm not convinced the GT is materially less efficient than the Trophy. The front motor indeed weighs something but not in an amount to have such a negative consequence. But I could be wrong! ?‍ The Cyberster in either guise is an outstanding car. I have both!

Thanks that’s really useful. The extra weight and larger wheel size may also play a part in how the car handles. But these are some interesting points that you raise. Especially about the car feeling more balanced when using both motors.

 

[Harry 17]

 

[Harry 17]

Loved driving this today, Twas the GT. Sport mode is incredible !! I truly did smash my head back into the head rest. Due to my 4 only being 2 years old this month, looks like I will need to look to an ex demo next year (due the 4’s depreciation). Such a lovely, lovely lovely drive. Still got a smile on my face

 

[Harry 17]

That light grey though, whilst looks a fantastic contrast, and one which I really did consider, it’s out for me now. Only a couple of days old and the grey was a little dirty and looked to have a little colour transfer from clothing. So my choice would be the campden grey, black roof and black and red colour combo interior. They had a Red Trophy under PDI, and the red and black interior looked awesome

 

[SunriseJak]

Hi Guys, I really enjoyed the podcast and appreciate the panels comments and input. I wished I could have joined the panel.

Of particular note again is the issue of regen on the front motor in the GT. Of course I can only speak to the GT model here in Thailand. I went out today with the express purpose of trying to ascertain whether the front motor has regen or not. I would assume if the front motor had regen I would expect to "feel" added deceleration when lifting off the throttle under various slowing circumstances. The front motor is not as powerful as the rear but I suspect at least some % regen added would be noticeable. I was downhill lifting throttle and slowing in Comfort mode (no brakes) and I switched the mode to Sport and nothing happens with deceleration. The car does not behave like additional regen is happening. I also accelerated in Comfort to a fixed speed and lifted throttle and roughly measured the distance and stopping point. The same test with Sport and the car slowed to a stop in the same distance. If both motors had regen I think the deceleration would be more pronounced shortening the distance to stop. (no brakes). I did these trials in regen selection 3. The graphic display (tire pressure and energy direction) in Comfort shows blue for energy going to the rear wheels under acceleration and green going to the battery from the rear wheels. When in Sport mode the graphic shows blue going to BOTH front and rear under acceleration but upon lifting throttle the green once again only goes to the rear wheels. Hardly scientific and not supported by MG specification but my "seat of the pants" feel is that no regen occurs with the front motor in Sport. But my 69 yr old bum could be deceiving me! ?
On the subject of efficiency. I would question the 15% better range with the Trophy over the GT if both cars are driven solely in Comfort mode. I doubt the front motor weighs more than a person. it would then be logical if in the Trophy you had a passenger your range would be reduced 15% due to the added weight. Not likely. I suspect the estimated range published by MG for the GT assumes some participation of sport mode thus decreasing efficiency. The estimated range calculation when in Comfort mode for example at 70% SOC is 338 km. Simply changing to Sport mode drops the calculated estimated range to 305 as I recall. Big difference. The adjusted calculation assumes driving 100% of the time in Sport where both motors are in play in all circumstances. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know the impact of the different wheel sizes contributing to the loss of range between Trophy and GT. Is the range affected that much by 20 inch over 19? My gut feeling is the GT in Comfort mode is substantially similar in range to the Trophy. (Wishful thinking? ) Gotta stop relying on my bum and gut for these technical issues!! ? But I'm enjoying the investigation even though my wife thinks I'm a bit looney! Any excuse to go for a brisk Cyberster ride. I live in the hills which is convenient. ? I also did some performance comparisons with my wife driving our Model 3 dual motor Tesla. But thats for another discussion. ?

 

[Archev]

Hi Guys, I really enjoyed the podcast and appreciate the panels comments and input. I wished I could have joined the panel.

Of particular note again is the issue of regen on the front motor in the GT. Of course I can only speak to the GT model here in Thailand. I went out today with the express purpose of trying to ascertain whether the front motor has regen or not. I would assume if the front motor had regen I would expect to "feel" added deceleration when lifting off the throttle under various slowing circumstances. The front motor is not as powerful as the rear but I suspect at least some % regen added would be noticeable. I was downhill lifting throttle and slowing in Comfort mode (no brakes) and I switched the mode to Sport and nothing happens with deceleration. The car does not behave like additional regen is happening. I also accelerated in Comfort to a fixed speed and lifted throttle and roughly measured the distance and stopping point. The same test with Sport and the car slowed to a stop in the same distance. If both motors had regen I think the deceleration would be more pronounced shortening the distance to stop. (no brakes). I did these trials in regen selection 3. The graphic display (tire pressure and energy direction) in Comfort shows blue for energy going to the rear wheels under acceleration and green going to the battery from the rear wheels. When in Sport mode the graphic shows blue going to BOTH front and rear under acceleration but upon lifting throttle the green once again only goes to the rear wheels. Hardly scientific and not supported by MG specification but my "seat of the pants" feel is that no regen occurs with the front motor in Sport. But my 69 yr old bum could be deceiving me! ?
On the subject of efficiency. I would question the 15% better range with the Trophy over the GT if both cars are driven solely in Comfort mode. I doubt the front motor weighs more than a person. it would then be logical if in the Trophy you had a passenger your range would be reduced 15% due to the added weight. Not likely. I suspect the estimated range published by MG for the GT assumes some participation of sport mode thus decreasing efficiency. The estimated range calculation when in Comfort mode for example at 70% SOC is 338 km. Simply changing to Sport mode drops the calculated estimated range to 305 as I recall. Big difference. The adjusted calculation assumes driving 100% of the time in Sport where both motors are in play in all circumstances. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know the impact of the different wheel sizes contributing to the loss of range between Trophy and GT. Is the range affected that much by 20 inch over 19? My gut feeling is the GT in Comfort mode is substantially similar in range to the Trophy. (Wishful thinking? ) Gotta stop relying on my bum and gut for these technical issues!! ? But I'm enjoying the investigation even though my wife thinks I'm a bit looney! Any excuse to go for a brisk Cyberster ride. I live in the hills which is convenient. ? I also did some performance comparisons with my wife driving our Model 3 dual motor Tesla. But thats for another discussion. ?

I think you got to the bottom of it all for me. Sounds like you’re having fun ?

 

[Paulie68]

On the subject of efficiency. I would question the 15% better range with the Trophy over the GT if both cars are driven solely in Comfort mode. I doubt the front motor weighs more than a person. it would then be logical if in the Trophy you had a passenger your range would be reduced 15% due to the added weight. Not likely. I suspect the estimated range published by MG for the GT assumes some participation of sport mode thus decreasing efficiency. The estimated range calculation when in Comfort mode for example at 70% SOC is 338 km. Simply changing to Sport mode drops the calculated estimated range to 305 as I recall. Big difference. The adjusted calculation assumes driving 100% of the time in Sport where both motors are in play in all circumstances. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know the impact of the different wheel sizes contributing to the loss of range between Trophy and GT. Is the range affected that much by 20 inch over 19?

It's not just the added weight of the additional front drivetrain though. When only the rear motor is engaged, you still have the front drivetrain "in circuit" so to speak at all times, even though it's not powered. So you have rotating drive shafts, into a reduction gearbox with oil in it, then finally the spinning motor armature. The reduction gear in oil and other rotating mass being taken up to speed and maintained will cause some additional drag at all times on top of the added weight you're moving around. Based on this, I'd expect the 15% extra range figure for the 2WD to be a realistic average.

 

[SunriseJak]

Aah ok. That makes sense. I was wrongly under the impression a clutch disengaged allowing the front wheels to freely rotate. But as you describe that would be huge mechanical movement with friction loss and drag. Got it.

 

[Jackolino]

Regarding recuperation: If the controller only allows a maximum current to the battery, then it doesn't matter whether it only comes from the rear motor or from both. The braking effect is then limited solely by the maximum current and therefore no major deceleration is to be expected.
But these are just my thoughts from an engineer's point of view.

 

[SunriseJak]

Thanks. Even at 69 and obviously not schooled in engineering I learn something new.

 

[Miles Roberts CG]

When in Sport mode the graphic shows blue going to BOTH front and rear under acceleration but upon lifting throttle the green once again only goes to the rear wheels. Hardly scientific and not supported by MG specification but my "seat of the pants" feel is that no regen occurs with the front motor in Sport. But my 69 yr old bum could be deceiving me! ?
?

Correct, I tested again today, and no regen is shown from the front motor in Sport or Super-Sport mode in the GT.

So the rear motor is used for regen exclusively.

 

[GranTurismoEra]

Would there be a huge difference with front motor gear disengaged completely to allow free rolling. The weight is still there of over 100kg with gears dipped in oil for friction. Would regen from the front cause more drag?

It wouldn't hurt to trial the new early solid state batteries proposed for the IM L6 in the Cyberster and Cyber GTS. If the battery turns out to be lighter and offer more range. Very early in production though. They could have different figures for quicker charge times, extended range and lighter weight in 2025/2026.

 

[leomindel]

So how do you disengage it ? The thought of any sort of clutch on an electric car sounds horrible