EV opposition in the media is ramping up

What I heard elsewhere was a fire in the 12V electrical system on the diesel Range Rover that then consumed the car and set light to others. Car was apparently smoking when it was driven in... no idea why the driver thought it was appropriate to enter the car park but perhaps they hadn't noticed the smoke before they entered. If so, understandable why they'd want to rapidly exit and leave it.
 
What I heard elsewhere was a fire in the 12V electrical system on the diesel Range Rover that then consumed the car and set light to others. Car was apparently smoking when it was driven in... no idea why the driver thought it was appropriate to enter the car park but perhaps they hadn't noticed the smoke before they entered. If so, understandable why they'd want to rapidly exit and leave it.
If it could be proved they were aware of it, I wonder what their criminal and legal liabilities would be.

Their next insurance quote may be a tad higher than normal!
 
If it could be proved they were aware of it, I wonder what their criminal and legal liabilities would be.

Their next insurance quote may be a tad higher than normal!
I was thinking the same thing... most insurance only covers you for single digit millions 3rd party. But I wonder if they would be deemed liable or if it is just every car owner having to claim on their insurance (ie nobody at fault)? Any insurance experts (real ones, not armchair please) who can enlighten us?
 
There is a standard property insurance liability cap in the UK of £155 million, except on the railways where it's unlimited.

In cases like this, all affected insurers would work together for an amicable solution for the actual cars. Luton might be in trouble regarding their claim due to the lack of sprinklers and may get only a limited pay-out. It is normal for a business to partially self insure
 
Something the anti-EV crowd fail to mention is; a battery fire is a chemical fire. It will only spread the fire by thermal conduction. An ICE car has a flammable liquid, which if the tank ruptures or explodes, will spread the fire far and wide (as was seen at Luton).

There is a standard property insurance liability cap in the UK of £155 million, except on the railways where it's unlimited.

In cases like this, all affected insurers would work together for an amicable solution for the actual cars. Luton might be in trouble regarding their claim due to the lack of sprinklers and may get only a limited pay-out. It is normal for a business to partially self insure
I wonder how the building contractors got past the fire regulations with no fire suppression systems? Surely a public building with hundreds of containers of flammable liquid should have some regulations for fire control or containment?
 
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Something the anti-EV crowd fail to mention is; a battery fire is a chemical fire. It will only spread the fire by thermal conduction. An ICE car has a flammable liquid, which if the tank ruptures or explodes, will spread the fire far and wide (as was seen at Luotn).
Yes, I am pretty certain the explosions were fuel tanks.
 
Something the anti-EV crowd fail to mention is; a battery fire is a chemical fire. It will only spread the fire by thermal conduction. An ICE car has a flammable liquid, which if the tank ruptures or explodes, will spread the fire far and wide (as was seen at Luton).

It happened at the Liverpool car park fire too. I was designing a building with a multistory car park and the local fire brigade liaison told me they were lobbying for cast metal drainpipes in the car parks as the burning fuel passed down the gulley then melted the pipe and caught the cars below on fire.
I wonder how the building contractors got past the fire regulations with no fire suppression systems? Surely a public building with hundreds of containers of flammable liquid should have some regulations for fire control or containment?

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That is an extract from Approved Document B volume two 2019 with the 2022 amendments (latest regs) Earlier mentions of car parks are more focussed on protecting the lift and stairs within fire resistant structure.

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I suspect the line in yellow may well change soon!!

The orangey red colour is probably how they treated the car park. No underslung fans to move air and in fire conditions the volatile hot gases so the fire spreads car to car. I have done quite a few basement car parks and we put big induction fans dotted around to move the air around for ventilation then they power up in a fire and drag the hot gases away from the fire and another large fan ejects them from the building. The fire test videos are quite interesting with how different the fire acts.

The bluey green line means basically that the walls can't have any plastic products in them, such as decorative finishes or DPCs weep vents etc. Has to be all metal or tested to prove that theyu won't burn at all.
 
I am sure that the insurers will conclude that those provisions were not adequately met so will substantially increase premiums on all similar car parks.

Whenever a large asset owners fails to act in a way the insurer considers diligently, eg Railtrack, premiums increase substantially and require a remediation plan.
 
Here is John Cadogan pouring petrol on the Luton Airport fire.

It is a mixture of speculation about the original vehicle being a hybrid (since disproved), fear around EV fire risks, humour about the need to ban Land Rovers / Range Rovers and some sensible discussion of car park design and improvements.

This guy frustrates me a fair bit: a huge number of people down under take their cues from him, he's technically savvy, but still holds a lot of weird views about EVs.

 
Here is John Cadogan pouring petrol on the Luton Airport fire.

It is a mixture of speculation about the original vehicle being a hybrid (since disproved), fear around EV fire risks, humour about the need to ban Land Rovers / Range Rovers and some sensible discussion of car park design and improvements.

This guy frustrates me a fair bit: a huge number of people down under take their cues from him, he's technically savvy, but still holds a lot of weird views about EVs.


I tried to watch this guy once . . . That's a few minutes I'll never get back. He's about as good as that emoji on the thumbnail.:(
 
Here's an interesting research article involving instrumented test of an under bonnet fire in one ICE vehicle catching a neighbour on fire. The cars had minimal fuel (<100ml) in their tanks. Nonetheless fire spread quickly and temperatures of 900C were observed, plus smoke temperatures >250C. Both high enough to spontaneously combust diesel fuel, had it been present.

I take from this that cars are generally very combustible, fuel aside, and work needs to be done to change this and reduce the chance of fires in the first place.

 
Here is John Cadogan pouring petrol on the Luton Airport fire.

It is a mixture of speculation about the original vehicle being a hybrid (since disproved), fear around EV fire risks, humour about the need to ban Land Rovers / Range Rovers and some sensible discussion of car park design and improvements.

This guy frustrates me a fair bit: a huge number of people down under take their cues from him, he's technically savvy, but still holds a lot of weird views about EVs.


I had a look, and the weird thing is he seems to mostly get it. He knows that fires in diesel cars don't start with the diesel, that something else sparks it, lots of inflammable stuff in the car becomes alight, and eventually the tank gets too hot to survive. Yes, quite. But he's presenting that as an argument against the official explanation, as if he thinks that's supposed to be that the diesel itself spontaneously combusted. No, they just said it was a diesel car mate, and you just explained precisely how diesel cars catch fire!

He says the colour of the smoke is inconsistent with a diesel fire, that it's a more efficient burn. But he's missing the point that at that stage it wasn't the diesel that was burning, it was other things such as plastics in the car.

He shows the fireball explosion, saying that diesel wouldn't go up like that. Perhaps not, but EV batteries wouldn't do that either. The overwhelming probability is that the fireball explosion was the fuel tanks of nearby petrol cars exploding!

He knows very well that Land Rovers have form in this department. He keeps saying so. So why does he have to invent the possibility that it was a hybrid? The reputation that Landys have for going up in flames wasn't acquired by incidents with hybrid cars.

Then he leaps to the conclusion that these fires will get worse and worse as EVs increase in popularity. Not considering that in fact EVs catch fire so infrequently compared to ICE cars that the frequency will decrease. Or that EVs don't explode the way petrol tanks do. Or that the difficulty in extinguishing EV fires is to a large extent because the fire responders aren't used to or equipped to deal with that type of fire. Once techniques for fighting battery fires have been refined and rolled out, the situation will be a lot better.

His point that the best thing the authorities can do is mandate that Land Rovers be parked in isolation away from other cars is probably very valid, but he's so carried away by that time that he doesn't realise he's negated his entire argument. The Land Rover reputation for incandescence wasn't built on hybrid fires.
 
Just read the comments on this one, most can't believe a diesel could catch fire and are convinced it was a battery fire!



Feel free to give replies
 
There's no point. These people are obsessed and beyond reason.
Carl Sagan once said; "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

Let's see the deniers extraordinary evidence, because the evidence available clearly shows a deisel Land Rover on fire. If it isn't the deisel burning, a liquid used for that very property, then they will have to present actual evidence of what it was that was burning.

Maybe he was carrying ethanol, methylated spirit, parrafin, or some other flammable liquid in the boot. Highly unlikely, but the deniers have to prove it and explain how it caught fire.
 
Carl Sagan once said; "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

Let's see the deniers extraordinary evidence, because the evidence available clearly shows a deisel Land Rover on fire. If it isn't the deisel burning, a liquid used for that very property, then they will have to present actual evidence of what it was that was burning.

Maybe he was carrying ethanol, methylated spirit, parrafin, or some other flammable liquid in the boot. Highly unlikely, but the deniers have to prove it and explain how it caught fire.
Come on it was obviously the battery in the key fob that he left in the Land Rover.
 
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