Home charger/evse help

[jpk]

Hi I'm a recent member to the forum, been reading the posts for a while but only joined when I ordered an mg4 trophy.

I'm in the process of getting quotes for an evse installation and the prices for both the pod point solo 3 & easee one are coming back about the same. Initial Thoughts were I'd go for the easee one as it looks nicer to me and the app gets good feedback, however when I've looked at the typical installations for both I noticed the pod point comes as standard with a ct clamp to allow dynamic load balancing.

A bit about my installation needs;

I don't have solar or a dual rate tariff, have a 100a main fuse already installed, no empty banks in my existing metal consumer unit so a a mini consumer unit would need to be fitted but that's listed in the pod point install. Have included pics of my current electrics.

I suppose the question is should I go with my head and opt for the 'CT clamp pod point' install even though with a 100a main fuse it shouldn't overload, or, follow my heart and go with looks and the easier app interface of the easee one?

 

[Jomarkh]

Have you had the incoming fuse checked as the 100A rating is for the fuse carrier which could have a 60A or 80A inside it.
Definitely go for a separate mini CU.
If you are happy that you will never get anywhere 100A when heaters, oven, kettle and showers etc. are all on then don't bother with load monitoring.

 

[Alb]

I'd also start with getting the DNO to verify the service fuse size. You can also get them to uprate the size of the tails feeding the meter. With a bit of luck you might get a 100A isolator too.

 

[jpk]

Have you had the incoming fuse checked as the 100A rating is for the fuse carrier which could have a 60A or 80A inside it.
Definitely go for a separate mini CU.
If you are happy that you will never get anywhere 100A when heaters, oven, kettle and showers etc. are all on then don't bother with load monitoring.

Wasn't aware that the value was for the fuse carrier, but no not checked inside as I'd have to snip the safety/security cable which I thought is a big no no

 

[jpk]

I'd also start with getting the DNO to verify the service fuse size. You can also get them to uprate the size of the tails feeding the meter. With a bit of luck you might get a 100A isolator too.

Had a brief look on my dno website but unfortunately I'm covered by electricity north west and the process for trying to get a main fuse upgrade was tedious unlike other dno's with long-winded applications.

 

[Lovemyev]

Hi I'm a recent member to the forum, been reading the posts for a while but only joined when I ordered an mg4 trophy.

I'm in the process of getting quotes for an evse installation and the prices for both the pod point solo 3 & easee one are coming back about the same. Initial Thoughts were I'd go for the easee one as it looks nicer to me and the app gets good feedback, however when I've looked at the typical installations for both I noticed the pod point comes as standard with a ct clamp to allow dynamic load balancing.

A bit about my installation needs;

I don't have solar or a dual rate tariff, have a 100a main fuse already installed, no empty banks in my existing metal consumer unit so a a mini consumer unit would need to be fitted but that's listed in the pod point install. Have included pics of my current electrics.

I suppose the question is should I go with my head and opt for the 'CT clamp pod point' install even though with a 100a main fuse it shouldn't overload, or, follow my heart and go with looks and the easier app interface of the easee one?

Hi @Ayoull can you offer any comments / help on this post / subject please ? .

 

[Ayoull]

You have a 100A BICC cut out, unfortunately that doesn't mean a 100A fuse is inside, it could be a 60A, 80A or 100A, if you're rural there's even the possibility of a 40A depending on the transformer.

If you're in a Northern Powergrid area an upgrade up to 80A is free, above 80A you'll be expected to contribute.

I don't have solar and bought a Pod point and installed it myself as I was an electrician In a previous life and sat their accredited installer exam, but now I'm looking at solar wish I'd picked a PV enabled charge point.

Also worth considering with load monitoring you'll only really have issues if you have electric heating or air con, or chose to charge your EV while you have the oven on, tumble dryer, washer and electric shower, this is assuming a standard built in oven, not the large electric range style ovens as these pull more.

I'm on a 60A service with pod point load monitored as I'm the first on the loop and my neighbours drive is a poured resin one and only a few years old so didn't want to cause any animosity, but if my neighbour wants an EV his drive will have to be dug up to accommodate.

 

[jpk]

Not rural, Manchester suburb. I'm definitely with electricity north west so I'll call them tomorrow to see if they'll tell me what size fuse I have.

Load wise I will be charging in the day as I work night, I have a regular size double oven, 10kw electric shower and just the usual other loads like TV's etc.

I hope I don't have to have my drive ripped up as I shelled out on a resin bound driveway myself this year ?

 

[Ayoull]

Not rural, Manchester suburb. I'm definitely with electricity north west so I'll call them tomorrow to see if they'll tell me what size fuse I have.

Load wise I will be charging in the day as I work night, I have a regular size double oven, 10kw electric shower and just the usual other loads like TV's etc.

I hope I don't have to have my drive ripped up as I shelled out on a resin bound driveway myself this year ?

Based on that I'd say you ideally need the 23kVA (100A) at the point everything is on, so your options are, apply for 100A but put a note that you can load limit to 80A if needed.

Not sure how ENW work as not been on design side there's but in NPg of someone asked for 100A and it would cost them to provide it we'd ask if they can load limit or not to make it free to them.

 

[Lovemyev]

You have a 100A BICC cut out, unfortunately that doesn't mean a 100A fuse is inside, it could be a 60A, 80A or 100A, if you're rural there's even the possibility of a 40A depending on the transformer.

If you're in a Northern Powergrid area an upgrade up to 80A is free, above 80A you'll be expected to contribute.

I don't have solar and bought a Pod point and installed it myself as I was an electrician In a previous life and sat their accredited installer exam, but now I'm looking at solar wish I'd picked a PV enabled charge point.

Also worth considering with load monitoring you'll only really have issues if you have electric heating or air con, or chose to charge your EV while you have the oven on, tumble dryer, washer and electric shower, this is assuming a standard built in oven, not the large electric range style ovens as these pull more.

I'm on a 60A service with pod point load monitored as I'm the first on the loop and my neighbours drive is a poured resin one and only a few years old so didn't want to cause any animosity, but if my neighbour wants an EV his drive will have to be dug up to accommodate.

My local DNO is SP Energy Networks and the house built in 1982.
All the houses in the street where fitted with "Manweb" branded main service heads and where fitted with 60 Amp cut out fuses internally.
I applied to SPE to upgrade my main fuse from 60 to 100 Amps.
They explained that upgrading from 60 to 80 Amps was a very quick and easy job, as the service head was capable of carrying both fuse rate types.
But if wanted a full upgrade to a 100 Amp fuse, they would need to replace the service head, because the 100amp is larger and would not fit the original service head.
They upgraded the service head and the main fuse to 100 Amp's and I have received no charge for the service.

 

[Ayoull]

My local DNO is SP Energy Networks and the house built in 1982.
All the houses in the street where fitted with "Manweb" branded main service heads and where fitted with 60 Amp cut out fuses internally.
I applied to SPE to upgrade my main fuse from 60 to 100 Amps.
They explained that upgrading from 60 to 80 Amps was a very quick and easy job, as the service head was capable of carrying both fuse rate types.
But if wanted a full upgrade to a 100 Amp fuse, they would need to replace the service head, because the 100amp is larger and would not fit the original service head.
They upgraded the service head and the main fuse to 100 Amp's and I have received no charge for the service.

Different DNOs do it differently, Manweb were unique in the UK with how they designed their LV network its actually a really smart (but expensive) way they built it from a cabling point of view but allowed them to use smaller transformers.

If it was a safety reason they changed your cutout that will be why the upgrade was free, as any cut out that will take an 80A will take a 100A, but there are some older no longer deemed "safe" to work on cutouts basically safe until messed about with, and all DNOs replace them for free and will upgrade at the same time the fuse.

I also know NGED don't always charge for fuse upgrades, but ofgem allows DNOs to if it's above 80A.

 

[Ayoull]

You might not be bothered but here's how Manweb designed their network, with the LV meshed meaning multiple transformers feeding into the system and all the links between feeders are fused so a fault will isolate itself by blowing link box fuses

All other networks except for London Power Networks which is solid links so meshed like Manweb but there's no fuses on the LV feeds are radial so 1 TX (transformer feeding 1 or more feeders but no active interlinking.

 

[Lovemyev]

@jpk
@Ayoull has offered some great advise.
I am just looking at the loads you are pulling now and you WILL need a 100 Amp fuse upgrade if you intend to install a wall box.
I am guessing that your twin oven COULD be pulling around 7 Kw's.
10 Kw's if both ovens are used and then you have that 10Kw electric shower.
Both ovens running AND the shower you are already pulling about 75 Amps now !.
Add another 7 Kw's from the wall box and your over 100Amps.
As you are likely to be charging in the day time, then load balancing my be required.
Can you please verify my understand / comments @Ayoull .

 

[Ayoull]

@jpk
@Ayoull has offered some great advise.
I am just looking at the loads you are pulling now and you WILL need a 100 Amp fuse upgrade if you intend to install a wall box.
I am guessing that your twin oven COULD be pulling around 7 Kw's.
10 Kw's if both ovens are used and then you have that 10Kw electric shower.
Both ovens running AND the shower you are already pulling about 75 Amps now !.
Add another 7 Kw's from the wall box and your over 100Amps.
As you are likely to be charging in the day time, then load balancing my be required.
Can you please verify my understand / comments @Ayoull .

When we assess load, if it's below 23kVA (100A) a DNO is allowed to diversify the load but if you ask for 100A we have to assume full load.

I'd probably go for an 80A load limiting just to make sure you don't pop the cut out fuse as most DNOs will replace for free once but after that charge you, Also depending on your service which looks like a PILC it's probably a 0.0225cu which is good for 100A max, so if you go over your charger won't care and you may damage the service cable, where are limit it to 80A you'll only be down rating your charger for the period if any your oven and shower are on together.

 

[jpk]

Thanks for all of your advice, I'll keep my fingers crossed my dno tell me I've already got an 80a fuse or at the very least will upgrade it for free. Also looking at the two evse's again the easee one will draw more as it can deliver 7.4Kw & the pod point only 7Kw so it's seeming like the more sensible choice at the moment. I'll feedback any details I get as it could help others in the same situation with the same dno, I'll also drop a review with whichever evse I get installed and the installer's that do the work. Fingers crossed I'll get the car maybe mid February when most of the more serious kinks have been ironed out.

 

[BugEyed]

the easee one will draw more as it can deliver 7.4Kw & the pod point only 7Kw

That's wrong. The maximum current on both is 32A and the difference in power is what voltage that is assumed to be delivered at which in turn is not a function of the EVSE but the DNO that provides the electricity to your property. So for a given car and property they would both provide the same power.

 

[BugEyed]

just to make sure you don't pop the cut out fuse as most DNOs will replace for free once but after that charge you

Good advice, but a fuse rated at 80A will allow considerably greater current for a long period of time without an issue. The fuse is really only intended to protect the supplying cable from a fault in the property rather than to act as a short term limit in the way that the French "disjoncteur" (circuit breaker) does.

 

[Ayoull]

Good advice, but a fuse rated at 80A will allow considerably greater current for a long period of time without an issue. The fuse is really only intended to protect the supplying cable from a fault in the property rather than to act as a short term limit in the way that the French "disjoncteur" (circuit breaker) does.

Correct it'll happily go along at 160A for hours without issue but will become what is referred to as a "tired" fuse and will eventually give out at a lower rating as the element has been heated up repeatedly, but if you be load limited your EV and that's all thats changed the DNO can't blame you for their asset failing.

 

[Ayoull]

That's wrong. The maximum current on both is 32A and the difference in power is what voltage that is assumed to be delivered at which in turn is not a function of the EVSE but the DNO that provides the electricity to your property. So for a given car and property they would both provide the same power.

My properties voltage over a period of 24Hrs.

 

[jpk]

That's wrong. The maximum current on both is 32A and the difference in power is what voltage that is assumed to be delivered at which in turn is not a function of the EVSE but the DNO that provides the electricity to your property. So for a given car and property they would both provide the same power.

Is one more efficient than the other to delivery a higher Kw if both have the same maximum current or does the pod point maybe only use say 28A but the easee one uses closer to it's max limit. This is purely me guessing so please don't crucify me if I'm totally wrong.

I'm currently waiting for a callback from my dno about re my cut out fuse size.?