Home Storage Battery

[hmadsen]

Yeah mine is also not "fast". Even on a day where i run on solar and battery from midnight to midnight, it will indicate that i have used a couple of KWh of grid electricity. This is exactly because, as you say, when there is a large shift in load, the inverter does not react instantly.

My inverter is essentially measuring the current draw from all 3 phases, and tries to match that load on on of the phases. But as said, it does not react instantly.

To be honest, i dont mind, i have still gone from using 20+ KWh on a sunny day to using 2 KWh from the grid, while i have used 35 Kwh from solar (Charging car and running washing machine, dishwasher and clothes dryer)...

 

[Cowton jb]

I'd considered the GivEnergy but decided not to order on two grounds:
1, The GivEnergy system seems don't react very quickly to intermittent loads in particular being slow to switch from charging mode to Discarging mode meaning that as you switch large loads on and off ie 1 kW plus such as kettle, microwave toaster all of which you'll use multiple times a day and at first you'll be drawing from the Grid not your battery then when loads go off the GivEnergy battery will continue discharging and you'll then be exporting. Nigel on his EV Puzzel YouTube channel calculated that each day he got an excess of ½ kWh unnecessary Grid usage at Day Time Peak rate followed by ½ kWh unnecessary excess Export at a Low Export rate.
2: GivEnergy availability of key components meaning it could be 9 months before I would have a completed system.

I then looked for an alternative that had a rapid response time, and multiple international sourcing, available now, expandable and supports both Octopus Go now and was Agile Ready for when that becomes available/is practicable.

Moixa system (available as 2.4, 7.2 and 9.6 kWh) uses Victron Inverters and Pylontech batteries (for the 7.2 & 9.6 kWh systems) and a brilliant control AI to tie it all together. Ticked all but one of the boxes. The capacity box since although the 7.2 could expand to 9.6 kWh (which ought to serve most homes' needs) that is it! The Moixa solution is a package bundle not mix and match even though the Victron and Pylontech boxes are both standard kit. Oh and another thing the Charge Rate at 2 kW that is adequate to charge the 9.6 kWh Pylontech batteries overnight on Octopus Go would force Grid Export during a sunny day with 3 kW PV or more.

LuxPower looked like a good alternative. Very configurable, supporting lots of different 3rd party batteries (like Victron) and could be either in Hybrid (Solar PV & Battery Controller) Invert/charger. The Web-based user interface is excellent and Works with both Agile and Go. In fact, it is the most flexible and intuitive interface of any I've seen and I love the way you can tell it to find and charge only at 'x' number of cheapest half-hour-slots or to charge whenever the electricity price per kWh falls below a price you set. Commonly supplied with Pylontech or UHome batteries expandable up to 8 batteries of 2.4 kWh which is 19.2 kWh. Also, the Squirrel Pod variant can be used without PV charging solely off cheap rate overnight rate electrons and scaled up linking multiple Squirrel Pods with one acting in the lead role and the others synchronising charge and discharge with it. LuxPower is a very attractive alternative and I was offered installation by a local supplier from stock within 3 to 4 weeks.

However, the option I have gone for is Fox-ESS (Hybrid) with 7.8 kWh of Fox High-Voltage Battery Storage. Reasons are that it is 1, Certified "Works with Agile" 2, the whole system is from the one major industrial company, 3, there aren't supply issues, 4, the battery is a High Voltage battery (unlike the other parallel 48V battery solutions above) Fox-ESS connect the batteries in series so that they charge and discharge more efficiently. 5, the nominal 3.6 kW Inverter can deliver up to 5 kW peak instantaneously for several minutes which means you won't keep drawing from the Grid every time you flick on the kettle and toaster together or whatever. 6, The battery is a modular design and additional 2.6 kWh modules can easily be added finally 7, the supplying company is a reputable nationwide company that was very professional and responsive adapting their solution to my needs.

Cheers Barry for a very informative reply.
I have watched all of Nigel's videos too about a plethora of battery trials. I see your conclusions relate similarly to how i see it also.
My Givenergy order was also based on aesthetics but ultimately the equipment needs to operate as efficiently and conveniently with the pv.(6.8kw), octopus tariff and mg ev charging hardware (possibly a zappi?). I intend to locate the battery(s) inside in a utility area where it won't be cold but will be visible.
Plenty of food for thought for when I hope to finalize the options over my severely delayed solar setup.
Thanks again, Jon

 

[Hotlush]

I'd considered the GivEnergy but decided not to order on two grounds:
1, The GivEnergy system seems don't react very quickly to intermittent loads in particular being slow to switch from charging mode to Discarging mode meaning that as you switch large loads on and off ie 1 kW plus such as kettle, microwave toaster all of which you'll use multiple times a day and at first you'll be drawing from the Grid not your battery then when loads go off the GivEnergy battery will continue discharging and you'll then be exporting. Nigel on his EV Puzzel YouTube channel calculated that each day he got an excess of ½ kWh unnecessary Grid usage at Day Time Peak rate followed by ½ kWh unnecessary excess Export at a Low Export rate.
2: GivEnergy availability of key components meaning it could be 9 months before I would have a completed system.

I then looked for an alternative that had a rapid response time, and multiple international sourcing, available now, expandable and supports both Octopus Go now and was Agile Ready for when that becomes available/is practicable.

Moixa system (available as 2.4, 7.2 and 9.6 kWh) uses Victron Inverters and Pylontech batteries (for the 7.2 & 9.6 kWh systems) and a brilliant control AI to tie it all together. Ticked all but one of the boxes. The capacity box since although the 7.2 could expand to 9.6 kWh (which ought to serve most homes' needs) that is it! The Moixa solution is a package bundle not mix and match even though the Victron and Pylontech boxes are both standard kit. Oh and another thing the Charge Rate at 2 kW that is adequate to charge the 9.6 kWh Pylontech batteries overnight on Octopus Go would force Grid Export during a sunny day with 3 kW PV or more.

LuxPower looked like a good alternative. Very configurable, supporting lots of different 3rd party batteries (like Victron) and could be either in Hybrid (Solar PV & Battery Controller) Invert/charger. The Web-based user interface is excellent and Works with both Agile and Go. In fact, it is the most flexible and intuitive interface of any I've seen and I love the way you can tell it to find and charge only at 'x' number of cheapest half-hour-slots or to charge whenever the electricity price per kWh falls below a price you set. Commonly supplied with Pylontech or UHome batteries expandable up to 8 batteries of 2.4 kWh which is 19.2 kWh. Also, the Squirrel Pod variant can be used without PV charging solely off cheap rate overnight rate electrons and scaled up linking multiple Squirrel Pods with one acting in the lead role and the others synchronising charge and discharge with it. LuxPower is a very attractive alternative and I was offered installation by a local supplier from stock within 3 to 4 weeks.

However, the option I have gone for is Fox-ESS (Hybrid) with 7.8 kWh of Fox High-Voltage Battery Storage. Reasons are that it is 1, Certified "Works with Agile" 2, the whole system is from the one major industrial company, 3, there aren't supply issues, 4, the battery is a High Voltage battery (unlike the other parallel 48V battery solutions above) Fox-ESS connect the batteries in series so that they charge and discharge more efficiently. 5, the nominal 3.6 kW Inverter can deliver up to 5 kW peak instantaneously for several minutes which means you won't keep drawing from the Grid every time you flick on the kettle and toaster together or whatever. 6, The battery is a modular design and additional 2.6 kWh modules can easily be added finally 7, the supplying company is a reputable nationwide company that was very professional and responsive adapting their solution to my needs.

System I'm leaning towards will include Huawei Luna batteries. From what I've found much quicker switching than givenergy and expandable from 5kw up to 30kw in 5k increment (I'll be having 10kw initially). You need at least the 10kw to get 5kw discharge.
There is a backup box available but won't be bothering myself.
Only drawback is it only works with the Huawei inverter.

 

[AussiePete]

Yes yes, i have a 6½ KWh battery.

The panels are rated at 7200 Wh, but the inverter can only deliver 3600 Wh to the grid, but if the panels generate more power than that, it can also deliver up to 3600 wh to the battery charger.

So, what is most effective is to use as much of the power i generate up to 3600 Wh as this will slow down the charging of the battery and as long as i can do this, i use 100% of what is generated.

When the battery gets full, the production drops to 3600 Wh

But yes, yesterday it was a day of sun and clouds and the battery smoothed everything out, at one point the battery dipped as low as 91% SOT, but then the sun came out, and it promptly went to 100% again.

This morning i had to run the dishwasher as the battery was still at 37% when the sun came up, there is no need to start the day of with a 1/3 full battery

You will get paid for any export so why burn it for the sake of burning it ?‍

 

[LittlePluggers]

We have a GivEnergy home storage system, which comprises of 2x 5.2kw batteries and a hybrid inverter. 7.2kw PV array, Zappi & an Eddi, all installed by Deege Solar. I have recently reduced our d/d with Octopus to £25/month, as we had built up a substantial credit. GivEnergy have great customer support. The system was installed May 2021, with no regrets, especially considering the recent price increases.

Just received our yearly report (bearing in mind system installed May 2021)

Total Energy Consumed 4454.20 kWh

Solar Energy Generated 3678.50 kWh

Solar Energy Consumed 2682.40 kWh

Solar Energy Exported 996.10 kWh

Consumed From Solar Directly 1700.20 kWh

Consumed From Stored Energy 1798.40 kWh

CO2 Saved 4481.22 kg

How was your experience of Deege Solar? We have a similar system on order with them due to be installed in a months time.

 

[Flat top]

How was your experience of Deege Solar? We have a similar system on order with them due to be installed in a months time.

Overall the experience was great. We had a few issues, but they sorted everything & ensured that we were 100% happy.

 

[hmadsen]

You will get paid for any export so why burn it for the sake of burning it ?‍

Well i am not burning it for the sake of burning it, i use it to power the washing machine, dishwasher and clothes dryer.

We have discussed getting a heatpump installed because in summer when it is really hot, we would like to be able to lower the temperature of the house.

And yes i am paid for what i sell, but the price is really abysmal so i am not really losing out a lot, if i use it to cool my house, as opposed to not cooling the house.

About 75% of the price of a KWh when it is at its median price here is taxes and VAT, so even on days where the raw price of electricity has a price of 0, it is still better to use my own electricity because i save the tax and VAT.

So when a KWh cost about the median, i will only get 1/8 of the price of buying the KWh.

So if i sell, i have to sell 8 KWh before i have enough money to buy back just 1 KWh. (The company i sell to, have to make money as well, so they only pay a fraction of what the raw KWh cost on the market)

 

[RHA]

Well i am not burning it for the sake of burning it, i use it to power the washing machine, dishwasher and clothes dryer.

We have discussed getting a heatpump installed because in summer when it is really hot, we would like to be able to lower the temperature of the house.

And yes i am paid for what i sell, but the price is really abysmal so i am not really losing out a lot, if i use it to cool my house, as opposed to not cooling the house.

About 75% of the price of a KWh when it is at its median price here is taxes and VAT, so even on days where the raw price of electricity has a price of 0, it is still better to use my own electricity because i save the tax and VAT.

So when a KWh cost about the median, i will only get 1/8 of the price of buying the KWh.

So if i sell, i have to sell 8 KWh before i have enough money to buy back just 1 KWh. (The company i sell to, have to make money as well, so they only pay a fraction of what the raw KWh cost on the market)

I've found exactly the same.. I'm on the old Feed In Tariff for the panels and that pays a few pence for everything you generate as well as assuming I export 50%. Historically I've been exporting more than the 50% so I'm on a mission to get back/store the energy I've essentially been giving away.

The trouble with the old FIT Tariff and being on Octopus Go for the car is that I can't switch to a tariff where I can sell back from the battery so we'll need to size it carefully, I am looking at the relay to put the house into an off-grid mode so that I can still keep the grid-tied solar panels active as they need an input to be able to generate if there's an outage midday or when it's sunny then I can keep the house running nearly indefinitely via solar and battery.

Just cost now being the deciding factor. Tesla Powerwall although looks great and being 13.5kw is good but it's way too expensive for a reasonable payback within a battery warranty period. Based on being unable to sell so it's the savings from solar charging and current electric unit rate that we've been working from.

I'm going to Fully Charged Live to see what's out there and hopefully gain some more knowledge in general.

 

[Deleted member 2439]

I've found exactly the same.. I'm on the old Feed In Tariff for the panels and that pays a few pence for everything you generate as well as assuming I export 50%. Historically I've been exporting more than the 50% so I'm on a mission to get back/store the energy I've essentially been giving away.

The trouble with the old FIT Tariff and being on Octopus Go for the car is that I can't switch to a tariff where I can sell back from the battery so we'll need to size it carefully, I am looking at the relay to put the house into an off-grid mode so that I can still keep the grid-tied solar panels active as they need an input to be able to generate if there's an outage midday or when it's sunny then I can keep the house running nearly indefinitely via solar and battery.

Just cost now being the deciding factor. Tesla Powerwall although looks great and being 13.5kw is good but it's way too expensive for a reasonable payback within a battery warranty period. Based on being unable to sell so it's the savings from solar charging and current electric unit rate that we've been working from.

I'm going to Fully Charged Live to see what's out there and hopefully gain some more knowledge in general.

Take a look at the Lux Power LXP ACS3600 unit. It’s what I have in conjunction with 8 x Pylontech 2,4kWh batteries. The unit has a “ups” output which may satisfy your requirement. Worth a look.

 

[hmadsen]

Take a look at the Lux Power LXP ACS3600 unit. It’s what I have in conjunction with 8 x Pylontech 2,4kWh batteries. The unit has a “ups” output which may satisfy your requirement. Worth a look.

Is it legal to use the "UPS" output in the UK ?

My inverter also has an EPS output (Emergency Power Supply) that can deliver 2500 watt, and is independent of the grid. My solar inverter is also of the "Need grid power or the inverter to grid" part will not work. It would have been nice if i could have flipped an "offline" switch and just run in island mode as well.

This EPS port is not activated, and i asked the seller if i could enable this, as it would come in, real handy, if someone would do a "special hack the grid operation" and put the grid offline for days.

He essentially said, that it was not enabled, because it was not legal to take power from this port, because then i would be considered a "power plant" and would need a special license.

He did say that if the grid went down, he would be willing to help me get it online..

 

[Deleted member 2439]

Is it legal to use the "UPS" output in the UK ?

My inverter also has an EPS output (Emergency Power Supply) that can deliver 2500 watt, and is independent of the grid. My solar inverter is also of the "Need grid power or the inverter to grid" part will not work. It would have been nice if i could have flipped an "offline" switch and just run in island mode as well.

This EPS port is not activated, and i asked the seller if i could enable this, as it would come in, real handy, if someone would do a "special hack the grid operation" and put the grid offline for days.

He essentially said, that it was not enabled, because it was not legal to take power from this port, because then i would be considered a "power plant" and would need a special license.

He did say that if the grid went down, he would be willing to help me get it online..

Yes, it’s legal here. I’ve not activated it, but my brother who has the same system has ?

 

[BarryH]

Definitely legal in UK. The inverter on many battery systems have two AC outputs. The one sits across the grid as a conventional PV inverter and shut's down when the Grid power is lost and the second called usually UPS or Emergency feeds the essential circuits such as Fridge and Freezer and perhaps lights (assuming you've LEDs you'll be fine). For some Distribution boards, you can arrange the emergency/UPS circuits on one half and the higher load circuits on the other. When mine is installed in the next few weeks I'm having a small Sub-board installed. One provider I had a quote from included a 13A double ganged socket to simply plug my essential whitegoods into.

 

[LittlePluggers]

Definitely legal in UK. The inverter on many battery systems have two AC outputs. The one sits across the grid as a conventional PV inverter and shut's down when the Grid power is lost and the second called usually UPS or Emergency feeds the essential circuits such as Fridge and Freezer and perhaps lights (assuming you've LEDs you'll be fine). For some Distribution boards, you can arrange the emergency/UPS circuits on one half and the higher load circuits on the other. When mine is installed in the next few weeks I'm having a small Sub-board installed. One provider I had a quote from included a 13A double ganged socket to simply plug my essential whitegoods into.

I was looking at this but it was going to be cost prohibitive for us due to the complexity of the sub-board and changes to earthing arrangements.

You might want to check your installer is planning to make the necessary changes to your earthing arrangements. According to the 18th edition wiring regulations: "when operating in island-mode, BS 7671 states that the island-mode system cannot rely on the distributor's means of earthing - so the system must have its own earth electrode."

 

[ChrisT]

Can anyone shed light on the G99 rapid application form for installing a battery that the Grid cpy require and its cost.

One supplier said it was free whilst another said it has a charge. Northern Power Grid said it is 399 plus vat which I appreciate sort of gi es the answer but wondering why one supplier said it was free.

We have solar already installed circa 2011.

 

[Harry]

You will need a battery inverter if you do not already have one.

 

[Hotlush]

Can anyone shed light on the G99 rapid application form for installing a battery that the Grid cpy require and its cost.

One supplier said it was free whilst another said it has a charge. Northern Power Grid said it is 399 plus vat which I appreciate sort of gi es the answer but wondering why one supplier said it was free.

We have solar already installed circa 2011.

Is it possible the first installer included a standard G99 application in the install cost and the rapid has an additional cost?

 

[paulharness]

Another non car question.

Does anyone have solar panels and a home storage battery?.

I am thinking of investing 4.5k in a GivEnergy 8kw system linked to solar in order to save on bills.

Does anyone have any experience on if savings are possible and how much bills can be reduced by.

Many thanks.

I thought it more important to try to reduce using fossil fuels (the national grid is still using a huge amount to generate electricity even if your own supplier buys renewable) than simply looking at savings. So I got the most panels my roof would fit and the largest storage batteries than would fit in the available space. According to the smart meter, daily use has dropped from around £10 per day to around £1.50, if you're looking at savings; every system will be different.

 

[ChrisT]

Is it possible the first installer included a standard G99 application in the install cost and the rapid has an additional cost?

Possibly but he did say in the quote the G99 was Free.

 

[ChrisT]

You will need a battery inverter if you do not already have one.

Yes that's part of the quote, a hybrid Fox Ess

 

[BarryH]

Yes that's part of the quote, a hybrid Fox Ess

I've a Fox-ESS on order and it is now delayed until September due to availability. My supplier isn't charging for G99 as I'm NOT having the 5 kW hybrid but the 3.8 kW version which only requires the G98 "Notification" rather than the G99 "Application" for approval. DC Coupled Hybride systems are unlike AC Coupled arrangements (String PV inverter plus Battery inverter) in that their Grid Export is limited to the one inverter whereas an AC coupled arrangement in theory both PV String and Battery could export at the same time.