MG4 in Australia

[wattmatters]

Beat that petrol heads.

And the more one can charge at home or work the cheaper it is.

While DC fast charging is 24% of our car's energy demand, it makes up 65% of our charging cost:

In general:

• DC fast charging is roughly on par with our diesel cost
• charging almost any other way is cheap as chips

If I compare with our previous diesel car's fuel cost for 9,993 km would be $1,319 ($13.10/100km assuming $2.20/litre and 6l/100km), so a reduction in energy consumption cost of $871.

Pro rata that to a full year means $1,161 less spent on vehicle energy.

We are not racking up big km, so our savings are modest and not the primary factor but certainly it is helpful.

Working out the true costs is always going to be tricky, e.g. I could move to an OVO plan with free energy for 3 hours every day, and swap to just using that for charging but it would result in our overall electricity bill going up because of their other charges and tariffs.

At least the Red Energy plan with the 4-hours of free energy on weekends has the exact same rates as their regular plan. I use it to load up the off-grid home battery as well, we run appliances and if the day is crummy I also put the water heater on full power (normally uses a PV diverter to heat from only solar). Weekend before last managed to pull down 50+ kWh of free energy.

 

[neerav]

9 months and all but 10,000km. Charging source stats:

View attachment 27713

Charge Source    Energy Share  $/100 km
 DC Fast Charger     23.5%      $12.31
 Destination          4.5%      $ -  
 Grid                27.5%      $ 3.10
 Solar               44.5%      $ 1.64
--------------------------------------
 TOTAL              100.0%      $ 4.48

Thanks for keeping this detailed record. It's very valuable

I'd like to do the same with my new MG4.

Do you have a suggestion for how to keep track of the charging data? Mine would be public only as we can't charge at home

Is it something simple like a cloud spreadsheet? If so please email me a copy of the template if possible

 

[wattmatters]

Do you have a suggestion for how to keep track of the charging data? Mine would be public only as we can't charge at home

I think in your case as long as you have a way to know what each charge session stats were (kWh and $) then you just need to enter that into your own spreadsheet along with the odometer reading, or just add them up for the month and note the odometer reading at end of each month.

There is possibly an OBD enabled app to help gather some of the data.

In my case...

For home charging I download all the interval data (in 15-min intervals) from Charge HQ. Columns A through H in the image below are what you get from ChargeHQ.

I then use Excel to assign each interval a time of use billing period (there are multi-dimensional lookups for that) and associated tariff and calculate the cost (columns J through N).

Pivot tables then sum the data from this which populate rows in a summary sheet.

Charge HQ has some sort of "away from home" charging register which I think possibly only applies to Teslas as I see no options for manual entry of charge data.

For DC fast charging I manually enter the numbers from each charge session invoice (or I can look up the app to see what the session stats were). Since there are not that many of those and it is not often, then it's no big deal. Just add a line for each session in the table above.

For other charging (i.e. destination charging) I use the data from the car's SAIC API integration to see how much energy was added during that session.

I also note discharge sessions (e.g. the 22 kWh I discharged during a grid outage in April). The data from those are not included in operating summations as they are not related to operating the car. But the data exists so it's worth keeping a track of it.

And the end of each month the odometer reading is noted. With the API it's easy to check the odometer history if I forget.

In turn pivot tables/chart generate the pie charts and stats I showed earlier from this summary sheet.

It's not overly important but I find that if I have the data then I can make informed commentary on exactly how it has worked out for our use case and back it up.

If I could not charge at home I would not buy an EV. It would be no cheaper to operate and it would be much more hassle to fuel.

 

[ozzz]

And the more one can charge at home or work the cheaper it is.

While DC fast charging is 24% of our car's energy demand, it makes up 65% of our charging cost:

View attachment 27744

In general:

• DC fast charging is roughly on par with our diesel cost
• charging almost any other way is cheap as chips

If I compare with our previous diesel car's fuel cost for 9,993 km would be $1,319 ($13.10/100km assuming $2.20/litre and 6l/100km), so a reduction in energy consumption cost of $871.

Pro rata that to a full year means $1,161 less spent on vehicle energy.

We are not racking up big km, so our savings are modest and not the primary factor but certainly it is helpful.

Working out the true costs is always going to be tricky, e.g. I could move to an OVO plan with free energy for 3 hours every day, and swap to just using that for charging but it would result in our overall electricity bill going up because of their other charges and tariffs.

At least the Red Energy plan with the 4-hours of free energy on weekends has the exact same rates as their regular plan. I use it to load up the off-grid home battery as well, we run appliances and if the day is crummy I also put the water heater on full power (normally uses a PV diverter to heat from only solar). Weekend before last managed to pull down 50+ kWh of free energy.

That’s the spirit, I have just changed to red from AGL this week.

 

[PeterM]

and people are still buying petrol cars ...

Context/use case is so very important.

Our MG4 is the daily driver. 70km/day on average. We're "saving"about $2500pa in fuel compared to the Corolla hatch that it replaced. Of course insurance is higher than the Corolla, and it chews tyres faster, so we're closer to $2000pa better off.

Our Corolla sedan is a secondary car. 30km/week on average. Replacing with an EV would be a fiscally stupid move.

 

[Wil Tryharder]

So pretty consistent level of spending on EVs in Queensland. Another 1.5 Million off the rebate slush fund. Looks like VW have completely missed the opportunity for a kick start into the Australian market.
—

Remaining scheme funding (as at 16 June 2024): $7,446,000​

Program update - Enhanced Rebate Scheme (effective 1 July 2023)​

QLD rebate fund reduces by nearly 1.6M this month. Leaving under 6M left.

 

[neerav]

I think in your case as long as you have a way to know what each charge session stats were (kWh and $) then you just need to enter that into your own spreadsheet along with the odometer reading, or just add them up for the month and note the odometer reading at end of each month.

There is possibly an OBD enabled app to help gather some of the data.

In my case...

For home charging I download all the interval data (in 15-min intervals) from Charge HQ. Columns A through H in the image below are what you get from ChargeHQ.

View attachment 27748

I then use Excel to assign each interval a time of use billing period (there are multi-dimensional lookups for that) and associated tariff and calculate the cost (columns J through N).

Pivot tables then sum the data from this which populate rows in a summary sheet.

View attachment 27747

Charge HQ has some sort of "away from home" charging register which I think possibly only applies to Teslas as I see no options for manual entry of charge data.

For DC fast charging I manually enter the numbers from each charge session invoice (or I can look up the app to see what the session stats were). Since there are not that many of those and it is not often, then it's no big deal. Just add a line for each session in the table above.

For other charging (i.e. destination charging) I use the data from the car's SAIC API integration to see how much energy was added during that session.

I also note discharge sessions (e.g. the 22 kWh I discharged during a grid outage in April). The data from those are not included in operating summations as they are not related to operating the car. But the data exists so it's worth keeping a track of it.

And the end of each month the odometer reading is noted. With the API it's easy to check the odometer history if I forget.

In turn pivot tables/chart generate the pie charts and stats I showed earlier from this summary sheet.

It's not overly important but I find that if I have the data then I can make informed commentary on exactly how it has worked out for our use case and back it up.

If I could not charge at home I would not buy an EV. It would be no cheaper to operate and it would be much more hassle to fuel.

Thanks I've made a similar spreadsheet for my public charging

 

[wattmatters]

That’s the spirit, I have just changed to red from AGL this week.

Powershop have just released new plans this week and I've just switched to their EV Day plan from the Red Energy EV plan.

2 hours free every day 12-2 PM.

Lowest daily supply charge in Essential Energy region (by a country mile), a flat rate tariff and a very low FIT.

Plan outline comparison to our current Red Energy EV plan:

ESSENTIAL ENERGY NSW
.                        Powershop  Red Energy EV
Supply charge   (¢/day):    129.81   145.40
Peak            (¢/kWh):     32.23    41.75
Shoulder        (¢/kWh):     32.23    35.70
Off-peak        (¢/kWh):     32.23    26.93
Super Off-peak* (¢/kWh):      0.00     0.00
CL1 unit rate   (¢/kWh):     12.17    17.55
Feed-in tariff  (¢/kWh):      1.40     7.00
.
* Super Off-peak periods:
Powershop:  12 PM – 2 PM every day
Red Energy: 12 PM – 2 PM weekends only
.
Note: Red Energy also use a different TOU periods, 
      with a morning peak period 7-9 AM added instead
      of it being the normal Shoulder period.

The low FIT is no big deal since we consume most of our PV output anyway.

Once the switch has been made I'll reprogram the car charging and home battery automations accordingly. Washing/dishwashing can be set for this period and if needed I can crank up the water heater as well.

It's a side benefit of a plug in car that you get access to these novel electricity offers.

 

[Corindikev]

I have just done a calculation and my bill would have been $11.48 instead of $41.42 if I'd been on the Powershop plan. The difference isn't much over 90 days but is cheaper and with free power for 2 hours every day means I can always keep the car charged for free even when the weather is crappy like it is at present. I can also make sure the dishwasher & other things are run at this time as well

My FIT credit was $115.15 at 7c/kWh for the 1645 kWh exported & at 1.4c this drops to $23.03 but Powershop still comes out on top.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll be making the switch.

 

[ozzz]

Sounds like a good deal I am in my 1st month with Red 100% Australian.
Good thing is my local shopping centre has free EV charging @ 6,4 kW so I tend to use that as much as possible.

 

[wattmatters]

The difference isn't much over 90 days but is cheaper and with free power for 2 hours every day means I can always keep the car charged for free even when the weather is crappy like it is at present.

This is the main appeal for me I think - it provides a guaranteed low cost period every day no matter what the weather conditions are. Scheduled charging is pretty easy and it's also when having a higher power charger helps as you can suck down more juice.

Of course we have to burn through our PV output before importing any energy but when the weather is crap that's not hard!

I have just done a calculation and my bill would have been $11.48 instead of $41.42 if I'd been on the Powershop plan.

And that's before any consumption behaviour modification to take advantage of the free period midweek. This is the hard part with comparing these plans, you have to estimate how much consumption can be shifted.

For us it would likely only work out worse if:

• our consumption dropped significantly, and/or
• the weather pattern moved into an extended dry period with excellent solar PV output

Spring tends to be drier time of year up our way but I have a feeling this year is going to be wetter than normal.

My FIT credit was $115.15 at 7c/kWh for the 1645 kWh exported & at 1.4c this drops to $23.03 but Powershop still comes out on top.

This is one way to emphasise the priority of self consumption of our own PV output. Our water heater pretty much runs 100% from solar PV (we use a PV diverter). It works out at this rate our annual water heating energy cost could be something like $20. On a controlled load it would be more like $320/year.

I did up a table comparing the four main EV plans on offer in Essential Energy region. The newer Red Energy EV plan has a slightly lower shoulder rate than the one I am currently on. Other tariffs the same.

Plans below include daily supply costs for controlled load.

ESSENTIAL ENERGY NSW
.                         Powershop  Red EV   AGL EV   OVO EV
Supply charge   (¢/day):    129.81   145.40   167.05   213.68
Peak            (¢/kWh):     32.23    41.75    44.25    55.44
Shoulder        (¢/kWh):     32.23    34.41    29.11    50.82
Off-peak        (¢/kWh):     32.23    26.93    36.74    40.43
Super Off-peak* (¢/kWh):      0.00     0.00      n/a     0.00
EV Window^      (¢/kWh):       n/a      n/a     8.00     8.40
CL1 unit rate   (¢/kWh):     12.17    17.55    16.17    23.45
Feed-in tariff  (¢/kWh):      1.40     7.00     7.00     3.00
.
* Super Off-peak periods:
Powershop:  12 PM – 2 PM every day
Red Energy: 12 PM – 2 PM weekends only
OVO:        11 AM – 2 PM every day
.
^ EV Window:
AGL:        12 PM – 6 AM every day
OVO:        12 AM – 6 AM every day
.
Note: Red Energy also use a different TOU periods,
      with a morning peak period 7-9 AM added
      instead of it being the normal Shoulder period.

OVO's plan is pretty brutal. AMP's plan isn't bad if you can't charge at home during the day.

 

[Corindikev]

I changed over to Powershop yesterday so am just waiting for the welcome pack after they have done credit checks etc. My daily supply charge is $1.10/day so somewhat less than your $1.2981. I've no idea why but am not complaining.

This is from the EV Day pricing statement they sent me yesterday. All prices are GST inclusive.

(Time of Use)
Interval
Peak Mon - Fri: 5pm - 8pm cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh) 32.23
Shoulder - Mon - Fri: 7am - 12pm and 2pm - 5pm, Mon - Fri: 8pm - 10pm cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh) 32.23
Off Peak - All other times cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh) 32.23
Super Off Peak 12pm - 2pm cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh) 0.00
Daily Supply Charge - cents per day 110.00

The main appeal is the convenience and consistency of the Super Off Peak everyday regardless of the weather. I'll just change my EVSE to plug & play at 32 Amps & set the cars schedule to 12:00 to 14:00 & just plug in whenever I get home.

 

[wattmatters]

My daily supply charge is $1.10/day so somewhat less than your $1.2981. I've no idea why but am not complaining.

We have a controlled load circuit and meter, which adds that 19c/day to the daily charge. It's the lowest daily charge I've ever seen in nearly a decade.

 

[Wil Tryharder]

Powershop have just released new plans this week and I've just switched to their EV Day plan from the Red Energy EV plan.

2 hours free every day 12-2 PM.

Lowest daily supply charge in Essential Energy region (by a country mile), a flat rate tariff and a very low FIT.

Plan outline comparison to our current Red Energy EV plan:

ESSENTIAL ENERGY NSW
.                        Powershop  Red Energy EV
Supply charge   (¢/day):    129.81   145.40
Peak            (¢/kWh):     32.23    41.75
Shoulder        (¢/kWh):     32.23    35.70
Off-peak        (¢/kWh):     32.23    26.93
Super Off-peak* (¢/kWh):      0.00     0.00
CL1 unit rate   (¢/kWh):     12.17    17.55
Feed-in tariff  (¢/kWh):      1.40     7.00
.
* Super Off-peak periods:
Powershop:  12 PM – 2 PM every day
Red Energy: 12 PM – 2 PM weekends only
.
Note: Red Energy also use a different TOU periods,
      with a morning peak period 7-9 AM added instead
      of it being the normal Shoulder period.

The low FIT is no big deal since we consume most of our PV output anyway.

Once the switch has been made I'll reprogram the car charging and home battery automations accordingly. Washing/dishwashing can be set for this period and if needed I can crank up the water heater as well.

It's a side benefit of a plug in car that you get access to these novel electricity offers.

I may have missed it but is there a minimum contract length?

 

[Corindikev]

Nope. There is no contract term or exit fees.

 

[ozzz]

I changed over to Powershop yesterday so am just waiting for the welcome pack after they have done credit checks etc. My daily supply charge is $1.10/day so somewhat less than your $1.2981. I've no idea why but am not complaining.

This is from the EV Day pricing statement they sent me yesterday. All prices are GST inclusive.

(Time of Use)
Interval
Peak Mon - Fri: 5pm - 8pm cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh) 32.23
Shoulder - Mon - Fri: 7am - 12pm and 2pm - 5pm, Mon - Fri: 8pm - 10pm cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh) 32.23
Off Peak - All other times cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh) 32.23
Super Off Peak 12pm - 2pm cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh) 0.00
Daily Supply Charge - cents per day 110.00

The main appeal is the convenience and consistency of the Super Off Peak everyday regardless of the weather. I'll just change my EVSE to plug & play at 32 Amps & set the cars schedule to 12:00 to 14:00 & just plug in whenever I get home.

I thought Red energy’s ev plan was cheaper especially on the supply charge or is it different from QLD to NSW.

 

[Corindikev]

It is different in every state and sometimes different from town to town. The cheapest deals are always in the largest cities.

You need to look at how you use electricity. This is easy with a Smart meter as it is read automatically every 30 minutes & you can see your usage on this basis.

I calculated that based on current usage Powershop is somewhat better even though my solar FIT went from 7c/kWh to 1.4c/kWh. The other driving factor was getting 2 hours of free power every day, not just the weekend so it means I will never have to pay to charge the car at home while this deal lasts.

It makes it very convenient as well. I simply set the car charging schedule to charge between midday & 2pm & the EVSE to plug & play at 32 amps (7.4 kW) & when I park in my garage I just plug the car in & if it is still there at midday charging begins & stops at either 80% or 2pm whichever is first.

If I plan a long trip I'll just change the battery max level to 100%.

 

[crc32]

It is different in every state and sometimes different from town to town. The cheapest deals are always in the largest cities.

You need to look at how you use electricity. This is easy with a Smart meter as it is read automatically every 30 minutes & you can see your usage on this basis.

I calculated that based on current usage Powershop is somewhat better even though my solar FIT went from 7c/kWh to 1.4c/kWh. The other driving factor was getting 2 hours of free power every day, not just the weekend so it means I will never have to pay to charge the car at home while this deal lasts.

It makes it very convenient as well. I simply set the car charging schedule to charge between midday & 2pm & the EVSE to plug & play at 32 amps (7.4 kWh) & when I park in my garage I just plug the car in & if it is still there at midday charging begins & stops at either 80% or 2pm whichever is first.

If I plan a long trip I'll just change the battery max level to 100%.

Did you happen to include the Powershop Night EV plan in your calculations? I'm wondering if the supercheap 4 hours a night might be better. Higher supply charge though.

 

[Corindikev]

Extra $17.00/month supply charge & higher tariffs by 3.28c for all TOU periods but 4.99c/kWh for 4 hours at night is pretty good. This plan is designed for people who commute to work not for us retirees who are home a lot during the day.

EV day plan is far better if you can utilise it.

 

[wattmatters]

I thought Red energy’s ev plan was cheaper especially on the supply charge or is it different from QLD to NSW.

As Corindikev says, the charges vary significantly by state and distribution region. QLD is generally much cheaper than regional NSW.

In Essential Energy region (regional NSW) the daily charges are pretty high, and yes up to now Red Energy had the lowest daily charge. This EV Day plan by Powershop however is 35c/day less for those without a controlled load. That's an unheard of daily charge for this region.

If you can charge at home and consume most of your solar PV it's a great deal.

Aside from using the free period for charging the car I'll also be charging the home battery and sometimes heating water (on poor solar days). Running major appliances as well.