Myenergi Home Battery The LiBBI looks Fantastic

[PAULinTHAILAND]

Hi Paul nice to hear from you again I well remember your energy set up at your home in Thailand from your posted videos in the past and when I was on the podcast with you a little while ago and no question it is fantastic.

So returning to your very valid question of why are home batteries so expensive in the UK I wish I could tell you but in the last week or so MyEnergi a uk company famous for there Zappi EV chargers have launched a new one called the LiBBi you may have seen it but in this video below here it appears it might well be of Chinese origin but the price is still quite high in my opinion here in the UK at not far short of £900 per KWh which I think was a 3.5 inverter and a 5kw battery any take a look I will be interested in your comments
Les

Hello again Les - I am aware of MyEnergi, in fact I contacted them about shipping a Zappi to Thailand and I was very impressed when they said that they could. I don't need an eddi as I have solar thermal hot water.

The LiBBi has integrated inverter and battery modules which are always more expensive than buying the battery and inverter from different companies but far less headaches and increased functionality. I think if you already have MyEnergi products it does make sense.

Here in Thailand, Alpha ESS is an integrated inverter and battery modules. It is very popular but with a definite price premium.

 

[Les burrows]

Thanks Paul I do value your views as you appear to have a lot more experience in solar in Thailand than us here in the UK well me anyhow, so thank you again.
As you will probably know the cost of all energy in the Uk as risen quite sharply in the last few months and I don’t see it coming down anytime soon, there are so many variables in that industry most of which are out of our control, the cost of solar and home batteries as also risen due to demand and is continuing to do so, even EVs that have a V2L capability are now in great demand from what I can gather as every little helps.
Regards.
Les

 

[Bluesparky]

I have a 5kw solar system, would love to install a battery system but the maths just do not work for me, a 10kw battery system will at maximum be charged once a day (35pence x 10) means it will store £3.50 per day. Even if it was charged and discharged every day, that will still only save me 3.5x365 = £1277 per year. At £10,000 for 10kw, thats a minimum of over 8 years before it has even paid for itself. On the other hand my solar panels cost £3999, generate approx £2000 worth of juice per year, a no brainer. (if I minus the £800 per year I used to pay out for diesel, pay back is guaranteed in well under 2 years).

 

[Hotlush]

I have a 5kw solar system, would love to install a battery system but the maths just do not work for me, a 10kw battery system will at maximum be charged once a day (35pence x 10) means it will store £3.50 per day. Even if it was charged and discharged every day, that will still only save me 3.5x365 = £1277 per year. At £10,000 for 10kw, thats a minimum of over 8 years before it has even paid for itself. On the other hand my solar panels cost £3999, generate approx £2000 worth of juice per year, a no brainer. (if I minus the £800 per year I used to pay out for diesel, pay back is guaranteed in well under 2 years).

£10k?
You also seem to be missing; shifting top up charging to an economy 7/EV tariff and unless your export is giving you 35p+ you're effectively losing money by exporting it rather than storing it to use overnight.

 

[Bluesparky]

like I said, I can't make the figures work for me, £10k , libbi website says from £4595+vat as its a 5kw modular system, im assuming its around £10k for 2 x 5kw. (supply only). I already charge the car for free during the day so no point changing tarif (cheap tarif while kids and wife are asleep is not much use to me) and anyway my figures are assuming I will charge the battery for FREE via solar. I might as well pump 10kw per day to the grid (costing me £00000, than pay out £10000 in advance for the privilege of saving £3.50 per day. Not saying it can't work for others, but maths is maths. Anyone got any other calculations that show otherwise ?

 

[dzwilkins]

We recently had solar , Eddi and an Givenergy 8.4 battery installed, solar was installed in July and the rest was installed in mid-September, we are taking the view of this investment as a way of reducing our cost in the future , as this is still a new system I only have October to go by if this will work as planned, I have only just switched to Octopus Go, on the new rate.

October 2021 our bill was £127.56 for Gas and Electric including standing charges, our rates then was 13p kWh electric with a standing charge 19p, Gas was 2.72p kWh and 17p standing charge. This was the last month before our tariff changed in November.

October 2022 our bill was £44.13 (we switched to Go on the 15th) again this is for Gas and Electric.
Rates before switch to GO (about to expire in November)

Electric
23.82p kWh
Standing charge 24.11p

Gas
7.33p kWh
Standing charge 24.86p

Now with Go
Electric
Low rate 12p kWh
High 43.37p kWh
Standing charge 42.86p

Gas
10.46p kWh
Standing charge 26.84p

How many years will it take us to get our money back , not sure, but longer than I would like, at the moment we do not have an EV, waiting for the MG4 to turn up, but the addition of the battery has helped us use more of a solar instead of exporting it to the grid, as an example we generated 285 kWh in October and self-consumed 216 kWh, compared to July when we generated 575 kWh and only used 100 kWh.

As I said, we are looking at this as a way of reducing our on-going costs, if we looked at it on how long it would take for us to break even and start making money, I am not sure we would have done it.

Just another view point, wish the Libbi had been out before we made our choice.

 

[Robf]

I can't help but think that given the speed of development in batteries and the disparity between the cost (and capacity) of EV batteries versus the current home batteries, that once battery production is ramped up the price per Kw storage will soon reduce substantially (similar to what happened to solar panels).
It will I think play a crucial role in the future of renewable (or total) demand. If in the near future we are looking at affordable 100kw home systems, then the capacity to store energy during low demand (and feed into grid during high demand) could be massive.

 

[Les burrows]

LIBBI Update with prices
Les

 

[tsedge]

LIBBI Update with prices
Les

Libbi Pricing in the video:

3.68kW Inverter with 5kWh battery: £5,514 inc VAT
5kWh Additional battery: £3,513 inc VAT
5kW Inverter with 10kWh battery: £9,150 inc VAT

 

[Hotlush]

Libbi Pricing in the video:

3.68kWh Inverter with 5kWh battery: £5,514 inc VAT
5kWh Additional battery: £3,513 inc VAT
5kWh Inverter with 10kWh battery: £9,150 inc VAT

Presumably 20% VAT, so; £4.4k, £2.8k and £7.2k on a new install?
Expensive compared to others but not excessively so.

 

[tsedge]

Presumably 20% VAT, so; £4.4k, £2.8k and £7.2k on a new install?
Expensive compared to others but not excessively so.

Yes, pricing seems ok, given that MyEnergi are not a value brand.

 

[Les burrows]

Presumably 20% VAT, so; £4.4k, £2.8k and £7.2k on a new install?
Expensive compared to others but not excessively so.

Hi is a home battery system as a add on to a solar PV array that is already up and running and as been for several years would tha battery add on be VAT free ?
I’m under the impression that it’s vat free if you put both in together as a job lot

Edit he doesn’t say if the prices include installation
Les

 

[Hotlush]

Hi is a home battery system as a add on to a solar PV array that is already up and running and as been for several years would tha battery add on be VAT free ?
I’m under the impression that it’s vat free if you put both in together as a job lot

Edit he doesn’t say if the prices include installation
Les

If adding to an existing PV system VAT will be charged.

 

[Hotlush]

Yes, pricing seems ok, given that MyEnergi are not a value brand.

Thinking about it, PV equipment vat is 5% so a touch more expensive than I calculated...

 

[Les burrows]

Hi is a home battery system as a add on to a solar PV array that is already up and running and as been for several years would tha battery add on be VAT free ?
I’m under the impression that it’s vat free if you put both in together as a job lot

Edit he doesn’t say if the prices include installation
Les

Think I might have the answer to my own question and while posting this below from gov.uk Hotlush thank you he as confirmed it as well so it does look very good but if the prices above don’t include installation it’s get a bit to expensive for me I think
Les
Batteries

Batteries also qualify for 0% VAT in Great Britain if they are supplied as part of an installation with a qualifying material – in other words, a solar system.

However, because batteries are not included on the list of ESMs itself, they do not qualify if installed as a standalone product. Solar Energy UK’s position is that batteries should be included on the list of ESMs, and continues to make the case for this.

 

[PAULinTHAILAND]

I haven't seen the detailed specs but my understanding is that a 5kW inverter means that the maximum inverting the Libbi can do (converting DC to AC or AC to DC) is 5kW. If you want to charge your EV from solar and also power your house at the same time you might find you can only charge at a rate of about 4kW, depending on your house load.

I would recommend a 10kW inverter and matching solar for EV charging as then you can cover the normal 7kW wall charger rate and power your home at the same time.

I assume the libbi was designed to a match a regular 5kw solar PV install and act as a solar power diverter to make the most of self generated power by dumping excess solar production into the car much like an Eddi does with water heating. However, serious charging will still need to be done from the grid.

If you have existing solar and an inverter then your inverting capacity is increased but you will have to consider how the 2 inverters interact.

 

[shiv]

I haven't seen the detailed specs but my understanding is that a 5kW inverter means that the maximum inverting the Libbi can do (converting DC to AC or AC to DC) is 5kW. If you want to charge your EV from solar and also power your house at the same time you might find you can only charge at a rate of about 4kW, depending on your house load.

I would recommend a 10kW inverter and matching solar for EV charging as then you can cover the normal 7kW wall charger rate and power your home at the same time.

I assume the libbi was designed to a match a regular 5kw solar PV install and act as a solar power diverter to make the most of self generated power by dumping excess solar production into the car much like an Eddi does with water heating. However, serious charging will still need to be done from the grid.

If you have existing solar and an inverter then your inverting capacity is increased but you will have to consider how the 2 inverters interact.

I'm in a similar situation, but it's very uncommon to see >3.68kW inverter installations because it requires a G99 approval from your DNO, which can cost anywhere from £0 to £1,000s depending on the house, dno/grid, inverter capacity, etc.
I'm hoping my 5kW inverter application goes through smoothly with the DNO without costing me £££s

 

[Hotlush]

I haven't seen the detailed specs but my understanding is that a 5kW inverter means that the maximum inverting the Libbi can do (converting DC to AC or AC to DC) is 5kW. If you want to charge your EV from solar and also power your house at the same time you might find you can only charge at a rate of about 4kW, depending on your house load.

I would recommend a 10kW inverter and matching solar for EV charging as then you can cover the normal 7kW wall charger rate and power your home at the same time.

I assume the libbi was designed to a match a regular 5kw solar PV install and act as a solar power diverter to make the most of self generated power by dumping excess solar production into the car much like an Eddi does with water heating. However, serious charging will still need to be done from the grid.

If you have existing solar and an inverter then your inverting capacity is increased but you will have to consider how the 2 inverters interact.

10 kWhp would be something like 25 panels+
Very few UK houses would be big enough to support that and you'd only be getting that much production for a very limited period over a typical UK year.
It's much more practical, given our weather, to work on the basis that you'll only manage a slow charge from PV.

 

[PAULinTHAILAND]

10 kWhp would be something like 25 panels+
Very few UK houses would be big enough to support that and you'd only be getting that much production for a very limited period over a typical UK year.
It's much more practical, given our weather, to work on the basis that you'll only manage a slow charge from PV.

I am very fortunate to live in the tropics and also to have been able to design a house specifically to be off-grid and power an EV.