New models have Vehicle to Load charging

[Coulomb]

trying to find a grid tied inverter that takes a 12v input,

I can't think of a use case for one of those. Maybe the manufacturers can't either, so that's why they aren't common?

Did you perhaps mean a non-interactive inverter, so that you can run a coffee machine from your car? The trouble with 12 V is that even to get one lousy kilo watt at the output, that's 83 A ignoring efficiency, and up towards 100 A when you take efficiency into consideration. The DC-DC converter in a car typically tops out at 80-100 A; ICE alternators at ~50 A unless they are aftermarket.

12 V inverters also have the lowest efficiency, because voltage drops from saturating transistors and the voltage drop due to current flow increases with current. That's why most grid feed inverters are nominally 48 V, with a handful of smaller ones at 24 V and larger ones at 96+ V. So if you have the idea of using spare electric car energy to export energy to the grid at times of high feed in tariff, you'll only be "drip feeding" from 12 V.

 

[AussiePete]

I can't think of a use case for one of those. Maybe the manufacturers can't either, so that's why they aren't common?

Did you perhaps mean a non-interactive inverter, so that you can run a coffee machine from your car? The trouble with 12 V is that even to get one lousy kilo watt at the output, that's 83 A ignoring efficiency, and up towards 100 A when you take efficiency into consideration. The DC-DC converter in a car typically tops out at 80-100 A; ICE alternators at ~50 A unless they are aftermarket.

12 V inverters also have the lowest efficiency, because voltage drops from saturating transistors and the voltage drop due to current flow increases with current. That's why most grid feed inverters are nominally 48 V, with a handful of smaller ones at 24 V and larger ones at 96+ V. So if you have the idea of using spare electric car energy to export energy to the grid at times of high feed in tariff, you'll only be "drip feeding" from 12 V.

I can get a 12v off grid inverter that lets me connect to the car battery and run low wattage 240v devices (like in this video ). What I want to do is connect the inverter to my house wiring (ie grid tie) so that is covers part of the house base load (100w-200w)

 

[Coulomb]

What I want to do is connect the inverter to my house wiring (ie grid tie) so that is covers part of the house base load (100w-200w)

Fair enough I guess. But I think you will find it a nuisance connecting it up and disconnecting it for driving. The cables, even for 200 W, will have to be moderately thick, though I suppose 20 A is doable even via the "cigar lighter" outlet. Then how will it connect to the house? I don't think it would be allowed to just plug into a GPO, even though in theory the pins would never be live until the inverter detects and syncs to the house power.

I suspect that there would also be regulatory hurdles with this. Even though the power level would be trivial, they will want to see certifications, proof that the anti-islanding works, etc.

 

[AussiePete]

Fair enough I guess. But I think you will find it a nuisance connecting it up and disconnecting it for driving. The cables, even for 200 W, will have to be moderately thick, though I suppose 20 A is doable even via the "cigar lighter" outlet. Then how will it connect to the house? I don't think it would be allowed to just plug into a GPO, even though in theory the pins would never be live until the inverter detects and syncs to the house power.

I suspect that there would also be regulatory hurdles with this. Even though the power level would be trivial, they will want to see certifications, proof that the anti-islanding works, etc.

UK Regs mean it can’t just plug into an outlet so would have to be hard wired. Ideally I’d like to find a 100w or 200w microinverter. If you know of one I’d be interested.

 

[Coulomb]

If you know of one I’d be interested.

The smallest grid interactive inverter I know of is the InfiniSolar V-1K-12, it's a 12 V model, but it has a lot of features you don't need:

• 1000W output
• Solar charger
• Transfer switch, support for essential loads

Unfortunately, this model won't operate without the battery, so you can't slap on a pair of panels and have it offset usage during the day, unless the car or other 12 V battery is connected.

I note that you would need some sort of pre-charge circuit to prevent massive inrush current every time you connected the 12 V battery. With a fixed battery, this isn't quite as essential.

There are also the InfiniSolar V2 series, which can operate batteryless, but they start at 1500 W, and don't come in a 12 V model. They also need about 4-6 panels minimum (if you connect panels at all).

 

[midician]

I

After a bit more research it looks like it’s not V2L as I’d like it. It’s basically a type 2 cable on one end and a female 3 pin adapter on the other

New MG Marvel R Electric is a charger on wheels with V2L system

Charge evertything you want, anytime and everywhere.

news.mgmotor.eu

Its great for camping! I hope they roll it our for the PHEV where its best used.

 

[Timmo]

The updated 2022 MG ZS EV now comes with an adapter with a standard 15 amp household socket so you can power small appliances from the car battery.
What if you plug an extension cable into this power socket, and plug the other end into a household power-point - can the car battery power the house?

 

[midician]

No , the house needs to be re-wired to accept a power supply such as a generator . This is only for appliances which you could normally plug in to a household socket .

 

[Gadget Geek]

The updated 2022 MG ZS EV now comes with an adapter with a standard 15 amp household socket so you can power small appliances from the car battery.
What if you plug an extension cable into this power socket, and plug the other end into a household power-point - can the car battery power the house?

No. But no reason you couldn't run a multi socket extension into the house and plug in your kettle, TV or other appliances up to 2.5 kW.

 

[Coulomb]

What if you plug an extension cable into this power socket, and plug the other end into a household power-point - can the car battery power the house?

Think about the cord you'd need: it would have a plug at both ends. That's also known as a "suicide cord".

The other things is that the adaptor's electronics can only handle about 2.5 kW, and while you often might be under that limit, you're often over it too. You can't control some of the high load items, like hot water heater. That could damage the electronics.

Finally, there is a technical reason: to connect two AC sources together, you have to match frequency, phase, and voltage. But if you only plug in when there is a blackout, and are lucky with the loads, it would work in theory, until the utility power came back, then bang. Meanwhile, you could be livening a section of power cable that a linesman believes is safe to touch, so s/he could be electrocuted.

However, there are expensive gizmos coming out to solve all this, but they need installing, making it more expensive again. Unless you have regular load shedding in your area, it's unlikely to be worth the cost and effort. But being able to power tools and electrical kitchen gadgets on the job or while camping, that's where this adapter will be useful.