Nov 17th Budget - Tax impact for EVs

[4ND]

PS I love my smelly log burner

Hope your neighbours' do, too, as they probably got no choice but to smell it and breath it.

 

[Macadoodle]

Not sure where the average EV picks up the road speed for the odometer, must be sensor in motor or gearbox or maybe just ABS pulses.
There would be a massive black market industry for electronic wizards to manufacture devices to block that signal, or just do an old fashioned 'odo haircut' if a mileage based system for VED came in, just can't see it flying to be honest.

 

[Nutnut]

Although I have heard that the police no longer pursue VED dodgers, not that I've tested this.
You need to watch the t/v police programs more often. They use to NR System.

PS I love my smelly log burner

I did not buy my EV to save money on road fund tax but on cost from A to B

You're not alone as lots of people have gone EV due to cost. Each to their own - not for any eco warrior to preach on.

 

[siteguru]

The DVLA has the owners registered keeper details on record o on the V5 of course.

Fixed that for you.
There is no register of owners.

 

[dave99]

They already have it in place now ! ( after three years ).
Your mileage is recorded and logged each time you submit your car for its annual MOT check.
This info is already uploaded to the DVLA database and then this could be used to send out a bill, that will be based on the actual mileage covered, in that calendar year.
The charges could be set into three “Mileage Covered Bands” for low, medium and high user cases to keep it simple.
The first three years could see motor dealers upload the info when the car is submitted for its annual services.
It’s certainly not that hard to adopt something like this idea surely ??.
Use what you already have in place !.

What if you drive your car out of the country though? 500 Mile round trip to Dover and 10k travelling around France ?

 

[t3rminalV]

I think the review date is 2025 so he probably won't bring it in until then but even so at £30 it's still less than the £165 I've just paid.

£520 for my other car ?

 

[NoSkill]

What if you drive your car out of the country though? 500 Mile round trip to Dover and 10k travelling around France ?

I'm not sure the government are gonna lose much sleep charging you for the 10k miles in France

This is the big 'issue' with that method of mileage record, trackdays being a similar (if significantly lower) example of mileage not on UK roads, but I'm not sure there's any real reason why the government can't charge for those miles anyway?

 

[Paulie68]

On a similar subject of road user who SHOULD be paying VED and some hat clearly do not.
There has been for a LONG time now, a very large group of people who let's just say "like to "travel around the UK".
Then find a suitable place to park, usually on private land etc, who are clearly uninvited guest's and then proceed to set up camp !.
These "people on the move" almost never pay any VED on these vehicle, and are using the same roads as everybody else.
This has been a trend for many many years now.
It also very possible that these vehicles, also don't have any car insurance / MOT's either.
The police know these people are using vehicles on the road without the necessary legal doc's or even likely paying any duty on the type of ( pink ) fuel they are using in their tanks.
But the police are almost totally power less to serve them with any type of fines etc, because they know it is a complete waste of their time doing so.
These people are registered at no permanent address of course, making posting fines a little difficult.
Moving them along normally takes about 14 days, because the police needs an injunction severed from a judge, in order to do so, and they know it !.
Just before this dead line is reached, they have left in the middle of the night, leaving a total mess for the local council to clear up, at the rate payers expense ( another non payment ) and also by avoiding any legal action against them !.
Kicking the can along the road, I believe is the expression used today ?.
IF the VED had been dropped years ago and then integrated into the price of fuel at the pump, then duty avoidance would have just disappeared over night.
As soon as you purchase fuel, you where automatically paying duty regardless.
This would avoided any of the "VED dodging" we have seen for far too long in the past.
If you used the roads a lot, then you naturally paid more than somebody who did not ?.
Sounds a better and fair system to me ?.
Arahhhhh ......... But wait, we are forgetting something here.
The government receives funds from both the VED and the huge income tax gained on the fossil fuel sales, so it was unwilling to drop the revenue received from the cost of VED at that time and wanted ( and got ) both forms of revenue.
All water under the bridge now I am afraid folks !.
As the ship has sadly sailed WELL into the sun set on this opportunity.

That problem would be easily solved if the law was enforced as it is with others. Seize the vehicles without tax and insurance and crush them. Lets see how far they get to travel around then, and if they just go and buy another tow vehicle, if that's not taxed and insured properly, seize that too and crush it until they get the message. Might need to station a few riot police outside the encampment for a few days whilst it plays out mind, as they do tend to violently kick off when subjected to the same laws as the rest of us!

 

[rpannell]

No they're not. Biggest miff out there. They use stacks in production and end of life. Some say ~ 75% of an 'average' petrol car over the course of it's birth to death.

The 75% figure has been shown to be a myth. A more accurate figure is around 20-25% of an ICE, based on current production. This is likely to only get better over the lifetime of the BEV as the grid get cleaner.

We Need To Measure Total Lifecycle Emissions For Cars – But EVs Still Win

The emissions from making an EV are higher than a conventional car but that doesn't mean electric vehicles are less green.

www.forbes.com

Total CO2-equivalent life-cycle emissions from commercially available passenger cars

The international passenger car market is undergoing a transition from vehicles with internal combustion engines to hybrid and fully electrified vehic…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[4ND]

The 75% figure has been shown to be a myth. A more accurate figure is around 20-25% of an ICE, based on current production. This is likely to only get better over the lifetime of the BEV as the grid get cleaner.

We Need To Measure Total Lifecycle Emissions For Cars – But EVs Still Win

The emissions from making an EV are higher than a conventional car but that doesn't mean electric vehicles are less green.

www.forbes.com

Total CO2-equivalent life-cycle emissions from commercially available passenger cars

The international passenger car market is undergoing a transition from vehicles with internal combustion engines to hybrid and fully electrified vehic…

www.sciencedirect.com

It's a 'myth' depending on which articles you wish to cherry pick
Just as I can link (and have done) over the contrary.

There are lies and then there are statistics.

 

[Lovemyev]

That problem would be easily solved if the law was enforced as it is with others. Seize the vehicles without tax and insurance and crush them. Lets see how far they get to travel around then, and if they just go and buy another tow vehicle, if that's not taxed and insured properly, seize that too and crush it until they get the message. Might need to station a few riot police outside the encampment for a few days whilst it plays out mind, as they do tend to violently kick off when subjected to the same laws as the rest of us!

Good idea but it takes money and resources to do it !.

 

[Paulie68]

It's a 'myth' depending on which articles you wish to cherry pick
Just as I can link (and have done) over the contrary.

There are lies and then there are statistics.

The figures are all over the place presently. The worst "report" I've seen, does suggest about 75% as 4ND says, but it's based on a filthy grid producing the electricity and pretty much assuming landfill for the battery at end of life. Best figures are as quoted by rpannell at around 25% and assume pretty much ideal world stuff, but as the grid cleans up, will probably end up right long term. Reality presently is probably about 40%, but time will tell...

 

[4ND]

Reality presently is probably about 40%, but time will tell...

Or reality presently might probably be about 65%

 

[Paulie68]

Good idea but it takes money and resources to do it !.

I know, I'm just fantasizing. It's not PC to say so, but these people are on the whole hideous. My go to tree and hedge guy has had to change his company name after a clan of them copied his promotional material and did a load of shoddy work under a similar name, dumping everything all and sundry and leaving his company inundated with complaints for work he knew nothing about after they moved on. He reported them to the police who followed up with them and he then got threatened with being killed for his trouble...

 

[Paulie68]

Or reality presently might probably be about 65%

It varies wildly as some manufacturers are going out of their way to build with a very low footprint, whereas some are nowhere near as clean in the manufacture. Also, be cautious of the source, if there is a fossil fuel bias lurking around they'll be downplaying the total pollution load for the fuels full lifecycle from prospecting, drilling, transport, refining, more transport, before even getting to burning the stuff in the car.

 

[4ND]

Just confirmed VED on transportation pods from
2025

 

[Lovemyev]

Just confirmed VED on transportation pods from
2025

I guess you mean EV’s then ?.

 

[Tommy]

This was almost inevitable wasn't it, as EVs become more prevalent on our UK roads. Didn't quite catch what our chancellor just said, but I think from 2025 onwards, not sure if for new vehicles only or retrospective.

 

[4ND]

I guess you mean EV’s then ?.

By vehicle you mean car?

 

[dave99]

be interested to see the detail on that - will it only apply to vehicles purchased from 2025? It will surely be lower than ICE cars?