Octopus changing its mind.

[Rolfe]

Yesterday afternoon when I got back I decided to charge the car up. I plugged the Zappi in, then checked my phone to see what schedule I had. This was for 70% by 9 am. I had 11 pm to 11.30, then 11.30 to 5 am. Fine by me.

I changed my inverter settings so that the house would go on to mains power at 11.00 rather than 11.30, and forgot all about it. However, a couple of minutes after eleven I thought I'd check that the car was actually charging, and found it wasn't. I looked at the Octopus schedule on my phone again, and it was completely different. A string of short, discontinuous slots beginning at midnight. So I didn't have off peak electricity from 11.00 after all, despite having set up expecting it.

I looked at the phone several more times before midnight, and saw it change at least twice more. (I wish I could take screen shots from this phone but I have no idea how.) The last I saw, the slots didn't even start till 2 am and continued through to 8.00-8.30. Some slots were only a few minutes long.

Two problems here. One is that it seems you can't rely on getting an off peak slot when you think you're getting one. Half an hour of the house base load at the peak rate isn't going to bankrupt me (although it's annoying when I consider how much trouble I take to avoid that happening, as a rule), but if I hadn't checked, I could easily have turned on the tumble dryer or something.

When I saw the 8.00-8.30 slot I wanted to run the Eddi at that time to get the water up to temperature, but I didn't dare set it in case they changed it again during the night and I ended up heating the water at peak rate price.

The other is that if they're going to split the slots so that the charge is repeatedly cut and restarted towards the end of the night, the battery pack is not going to get a chance to balance. If the power is cut after balancing starts, it doesn't usually resume.

If this is how it's going to work I think it's completely pointless. I'd be better off simply using the Zappi's own schedule to charge from 11.30 till 5.30 every time.

Has anyone else had this problem?

 

[Bam Bam]

Has anyone else had this problem?

A bit different as we can't get Intelligent Go.

However, we are on Intelligent Flux. I've noticed that Kraken (Octopus' underlying system) does do little charge and discharge and slots at surprising times.

This isn't an issue on IFlux because you pay the same amount in and out.

Doesn't IGo offer the cheap price during certain times, irrespective of whether the car is charging or not?

Are you just talking about getting extra slots outside those times? Or can you have periods of peak power pricing during the night?

 

[Rolfe]

It's always at the cheap price from 11.30 till 5.30. The carrot is that if you let Octopus choose your charging slots you might get some time outside that period also at the cheap price. That's fine, so long as you can rely on actually getting the slots they tell you you've been allocated. But if they're going to tell me I have a cheap slot from 11.00 till 11.30, then change their minds later, after I've set up my system in anticipation of this, that's hopeless.

 

[Bam Bam]

It's always at the cheap price from 11.30 till 5.30. The carrot is that if you let Octopus choose your charging slots you might get some time outwith that period also at the cheap price. That's fine, so long as you can rely on actually getting the slots they tell you you've been allocated. But if they're going to tell me I have a cheap slot from 11.00 till 11.30, then change their minds later, after I've set up my system in anticipation of this, that's hopeless.

Isn't the purpose of the tariff that your equipment is being used at their convenience, not yours?

In exchange you get the cheaper prices and better export rates.

I know a lot of people are in the business of gaming the tariff, but it sounds like you can treat it like the regular Go (that those of us without Zappis etc. are stuck with) and still be better off than regular Go customers.

 

[Bam Bam]

Good to warn others of this issue though, so they know not to rely on the initial slot indications!

 

[Rolfe]

Isn't the purpose of the tariff that your equipment is being used at their convenience, not yours?

In exchange you get the cheaper prices and better export rates.

I know a lot of people are in the business of gaming the tariff, but it sounds like you can treat it like the regular Go (that those of us without Zappis etc. are stuck with) and still be better off than regular Go customers.

I'm not trying to game the system at all. You're instructed to enter how much charge you need. I entered 70%, because the car was on about 37% and I wanted to take it to 100% and balance the pack. You're instructed to say when you need the car by. I said 9 am just as a generic, do it by morning some time. No funny stuff.

I wasn't at all bothered what slots I got, that was up to them. I gave them plenty leeway to fit in the six hours it would take. They say they'll create a charging plan shortly after you plug in. They did that, and told me the plan. So far, so absolutely fine.

They tell you that you have electricity at 7p/unit for all purposes while the car is in a charging slot. Great. That's the deal. But in order to take advantage of that you have to know when the slots are! My beef is that they tell me the slots they've allocated, I act on that information, then they unilaterally change these slots after I've made my arrangements. What the hell is the point of even listing the slots if they're subject to change without warning? They might as well say, OK, we'll charge your car sometime before the time you said you need it, goodnight.

If you're told you have a slot from 11.00 to 11.30 pm, then according to the marketing you can plan to put on the washing machine or the tumble dryer or whatever during that time, and pay only 7p/unit. But what they did to me last night was give me that slot, then when the time came it was fortunate that I checked, because the slot was no longer mine. I was too late to prevent some mains electricity usage, but because I did check I was able to minimise it to 0.11 kWh rather than splurging out on heavy-use appliances.

Absolutely nowhere in the FAQs or anywhere I have seen do they inform you that the schedule you see when you plug in is subject to change without warning. If this is what happens it makes a complete nonsense of the entire deal. I'm trying to play it by their rules by using Smart Charging, but they're changing the rules as they go along,

The deal to get Intelligent Octopus Go is that you have to do one Smart Charge every so often, might be once a month, or once every two months, something like that. My plan was to use smart charging all the time, not so much because I want a longer off-peak period, but because it's part of the deal and why not? But this development is very much a reason not to.

I will now switch to charging 11.30 till 5.30 on the Zappi's own schedule and turn off Octopus smart charging except once a month or so I'll set a schedule for maybe 10% to be added, and tell them I want the car by 5.30, to prevent them charging the car outside the normal off-peak period. I don't mind them doing that if they tell me in advance and stick to their word, but if they're going to change it without telling me, I'm out.

 

[Bam Bam]

I'm not trying to game the system at all.

I wasn't talking about you, but I'm sure a few people on here have been sharing their strategies to get extra cheap electricity.

 

[Rolfe]

I've had an odd email from Octopus which didn't really address my problem at all and seemed to imply that electricity for general home use was NOT 7p during non off-peak charging slots. I may have to email them again. My complaint is purely that they tell me I have a charging schedule, then sneakily change it behind my back.

 

[securespark]

If you have an Android phone, one way you can take a screenshot is by tapping the square symbol at the bottom of the screen, then tapping screen shot.

 

[mg4mc]

IOG has always worked like this. The schedule is fluid depending on demand, that's the point of it isn't it. If you want things to track the schedule then you will have to automate it. I have Octopus integrated into Home Assistant and it shows if you are on cheap rate or not minute by minute. You could use this to send commands to other systems to switch them off/on.

 

[Rolfe]

Or I could just use the Zappi's scheduled timer for the normal off-peak period and do the bare minimum of smart charging to keep within their T&Cs. Much simpler. What is even the point of telling you what smart charging schedule they've set if it doesn't mean that's what's going to happen?

That still doesn't get me a screenshot I'm afraid, @securespark. Just brings up the desktop as usual.

 

[mg4mc]

Android screen shots are normally pressing the power and volume down buttons at the same time.

 

[securespark]

Or I could just use the Zappi's scheduled timer for the normal off-peak period and do the bare minimum of smart charging to keep within their T&Cs. Much simpler. What is even the point of telling you what smart charging schedule they've set if it doesn't mean that's what's going to happen?

That still doesn't get me a screenshot I'm afraid, @securespark. Just brings up the desktop as usual.

What version of Android is your phone running?

 

[Rolfe]

Android screen shots are normally pressing the power and volume down buttons at the same time.

That's what I've been told several times. But that's the sequence that turns my phone off! (It's on Android 14.)

 

[Rolfe]

Seriously, "We've mapped tonight's Smart charge" followed by a detailed sequence of time slots. How unreasonable is it to assume these are the slots that are going to happen? Why do they even bother telling you this if they're just going to change it all the minute you look away?

 

[securespark]

That's what I've been told several times. But that's the sequence that turns my phone off! (It's on Android 14.)

That's weird. I have a Nokia XR20 running stock Android. I have just updated to 14 and tapping the square at the bottom minimizes the screen, then shows "Screenshot" at the bottom.

Maybe you don't have stock Android.

What brand and model is your smartphone?

 

[Rolfe]

The phone does automatic updates and last downloaded one in early September. There must be a way to take screenshots. The phone is only about 14 months old. But I can't figure out what it is. I'm probably being really dense.

 

[mg4mc]

That's what I've been told several times. But that's the sequence that turns my phone off! (It's on Android 14.)

The problem is lots of phone manufacturers put their own modified skins on top of Android, you will have to find out what the secret is for your make of phone.

I have Google Pixel phone, so it runs "pure" Android as Google intended and power + vol down has always been the base screen shot button combo afaik.

 

[Vipar]

Try googling it or YouTube I rely on them or the Kid next door ? good luck

 

[securespark]

The phone does automatic updates and last downloaded one in early September. There must be a way to take screenshots. The phone is only about 14 months old. But I can't figure out what it is. I'm probably being really dense.

No worries. If you tell me the brand and model, I will find out how to do a screenshot.