Petrol v Electric cars. ??

[Rolfe]

I wrote to channel 5, they seem to have their finger on the pulse:-

"I am thinking of replacing my electric car with a petrol car and have some questions.

• I have heard that petrol cars can not refuel at home while you sleep? How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Is this several times a year? Will there be a solution for refueling at home?
• Which parts will I need service on and how often? The car salesman mentioned a box with gears in it. What is this and will I receive a warning with an indicator when I need to change gear?
• Can I accelerate and brake with one pedal as I do today with my electric car?
• Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill? I assume so, but need to ask to be sure.
• The car I test drove seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal in petrol cars?
• We currently pay about 1p per mile to drive our electric car. I have heard that petrol can cost up to 15 times as much so I reckon we will lose some money in the beginning. We drive about 20,000 miles a year. Let's hope more people will start using petrol so prices go down.
• Is it true that petrol is flammable? Should I empty the tank and store the petrol somewhere else while the car is in the garage?
• Is there an automatic system to prevent gasoline from catching fire or exploding in an accident. What does this cost?
• I understand that the main ingredient in petrol is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil causes environmental problems as well as conflicts and major wars that over the last 100 years have cost millions of lives? Is there a solution to these problems?
• I have heard that cars with internal combustion based engines are being banned to enter more and more cities around the world, as it is claimed that they tend to harm the environment and health of their citizens?? Is that true??

I may have more questions later, but these are the most important ones to me at the moment.

Thank you in advance for your reply.

John"

That's always a good one. Although I think the 1p/mile is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Bricktop X PWR]

I had a C63 AMG a few years ago. I hadn’t realised that the only thing it could do better than the electric equivalent was to give me the opportunity to drive faster than 137 mph and make a big noise. I am so glad I grew up ?

Actually, when I arrived home it was SWMBO who said, I am not driving that, it makes a racket and will frighten the dog.

I also owned an E63 AMG Estate 12 years back (and what a bloody car it was!) one of the highlights of my petrol powered era!

Anyway, I was shouting at the screen......

"TELL HIM HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO FILL IT UP" !!!

"TELL HIM HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO MAINTAIN" !!!

"TELL HIM HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO TAX" !!!

"TELL HIM YOU NEED REAR TYRES EVERY 5 THOUSAND MILES" !!!

You get the picture.

 

[Susanna]

@johnb80

Maybe you could add to your list

‘Can petrol cars be refuelled just from the power of the sun’?

@Bricktop X PWR

They didn’t incorporate any maintenance costs, did they? Good points!!

 

[OriginalBigAl]

@johnb80

Maybe you could add to your list

‘Can petrol cars be refuelled just from the power of the sun’?

Well, yes , its just that the sun was many millions of years younger. but I see what you mean,

 

[Archev]

I also owned an E63 AMG Estate 12 years back (and what a bloody car it was!) one of the highlights of my petrol powered era!

Anyway, I was shouting at the screen......

"TELL HIM HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO FILL IT UP" !!!

"TELL HIM HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO MAINTAIN" !!!

"TELL HIM HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO TAX" !!!

"TELL HIM YOU NEED REAR TYRES EVERY 5 THOUSAND MILES" !!!

You get the picture.

Hmm anti eco’s vehicle.

 

[Bricktop X PWR]

Hmm anti eco’s vehicle.

Ah Shad up.
12 years ago. ?

I wouldn't even think of owning one today!

 

[Archev]

I had a blinding day yesterday - no it really was a blinding day.
A lovely young lady dropped stinging fluid in both eyes then when my pupils were like saucers she stuck a massive Cannon in front of each eye and set off a nuclear explosion apparently in aid of my health ?
I bounced off forty walls until I reached the the cafe where I consoled myself with a toasted tea cake and coffee.
After a while I went out and found the sanctuary of the Five. I pushed the start button and looked up to proceed.
I pressed the stop button and closed my eyes to tiny slits but the immaculate white hospital walls were reflecting full sun straight at me.
Keeping eyes shut tight for half an hour was hard but necessary until the sun moved round a bit and the eye drop effect diminished.
I was going to set off on a bit of a camping adventure but I think I’ll hang on til tomorrow. Now where did I put those bloom in’ sun glasses ?

Who says autonomous cars are a bad idea ? ??

 

[tsedge]

Oh good, I don't need to watch this now and if it is as bad as everyone says, it will do its bit to keep EV prices low for longer, which helps me.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

It was not bad, just bland and pretty predictable. The hoped for Robot Wars version would have been much better, I think I chose badly in my occupational choices many years ago!

 

[Rolfe]

I had a blinding day yesterday - no it really was a blinding day.
A lovely young lady dropped stinging fluid in both eyes then when my pupils were like saucers she stuck a massive Cannon in front of each eye and set off a nuclear explosion apparently in aid of my health ?
I bounced off forty walls until I reached the the cafe where I consoled myself with a toasted tea cake and coffee.
After a while I went out and found the sanctuary of the Five. I pushed the start button and looked up to proceed.
I pressed the stop button and closed my eyes to tiny slits but the immaculate white hospital walls were reflecting full sun straight at me.
Keeping eyes shut tight for half an hour was hard but necessary until the sun moved round a bit and the eye drop effect diminished.
I was going to set off on a bit of a camping adventure but I think I’ll hang on til tomorrow. Now where did I put those bloom in’ sun glasses ?

Who says autonomous cars are a bad idea ? ??

That happened to me at my last optician's appointment before I was referred for cataract surgery. Just had to sit in the car and wait till it was possible to drive again. Couldn't even open my eyes to read.

I'm driving for a village charity a friend has set up to give people lifts to medical appointments, and I had to take a guy right across Scotland for a cataract assessment appointment. He had a car and could drive, and his cataract is only in one eye, but having someone to drive him there and back made a big difference, I think. I expect we'll renew our acquaintance next month when he goes in for surgery. He liked having a driver who had already had the procedure, too!

 

[djngolf]

And a key point not discussed was safety which is typically better with an ev with its low cog is safer, more stable.

 

[Rolfe]

I bet they didn't mention how the heat comes on the minute you get in the car, or that you can pre-heat it even before you leave the house. Or that you can plug your kettle in to the charging port and make a cuppa out on the road. Or that you can sleep in it all night with the heating/aircon on.

 

[Rolfe]

No one would set off from home on a long trip with a battery at 25%!!

Only an idiot would do such a thing.

Well done for making EV owners look stupid.

Did they really, seriously do this? No mention that the ability to leave home with a full "tank" every time with zero inconvenience is a big plus of EVs?

 

[Bricktop X PWR]

Did they really, seriously do this? No mention that the ability to leave home with a full "tank" every time with zero inconvenience is a big plus of EVs?

Yup.

They were trying to show that it was quicker to refuel the petrol car than charge an EV.

No Shit Sherlock!

A ridiculous test, poorly thought out to just make the petrol car, the better option.

They had to throw something into the mix though because if the car was full of petrol and the EV fully charged, they would have arrived at the same time making it completely pointless.

Although, sadly, the EV driver would have lost regardless because she missed her last turn off and was bloody late anyway!!!

 

[Caramaddy]

I did not feel the same resentment towards the programme as many posts on here. They tried to highlight that it takes longer to charge a car than fill it with petrol – that was the point of starting at a low % charge and the petrol car having only ¼ of a tank.

The part that hit me between the eyes was how good the electric Merc was in comparison to the AMG version. To choose the AMG because of the “sound” is just vacuous.



I may be repeating myself, but take a PF MG5 SR. It is a medium sized estate – comparable with a Focus or Astra estate. I am going to concentrate on the driving characteristics of the MG5. To be honest, I have not driven a Focus or an Astra. The MG5 has amazing torque and acceleration – it has a 0-60 time equivalent to my old Lexus RX400h 3.3 litre V6. The noise levels are really subdued – a very quiet car for its segment. It rides very smoothly, smoother than my present Lexus NX300h. It handles well with virtually no body roll. It has ample boot space and legroom in the back. The seats I find comfortable with good adjustment.

If it were possible to swap badges and let a prospective buyer try the MG5, I think they would be amazed compared to the opposition. I feel it would win hands down.

When you ADD to that, very cheap to fuel and cheap to service – what is there not to like?

If the MG5 had all these qualities AND ran on petrol at 150 mpg the motoring press would be in raptures!

“Oh it is electric………..” then all the prejudices come out. As a group we will not change some people’s minds, no matter how good electric cars become.

Does my MG5 have soul? If it keeps working as it is at present, I really don’t give a toss! I feel fortunate to have dipped my toe into electric ownership. The advantages far outweigh any argument about charging times. I think used EV’s, in the present market, are remarkable value.

If you have a budget of £10,000 you can buy a Rolls Royce (there are 8 available on AutoTrader) or you can buy an EV. I know which I would spend my money on.

 

[Susanna]

@Rolfe No - not one mention of these many ‘extra’ conveniences that EV’s provide ?

 

[Rolfe]

Why is it all about who gets there first? Usually over a very unrealistic journey.

Everybody knows it takes longer to charge an EV mid-journey than to fill an ICE car. I mean duh. What a good programme would have done would have been to highlight that the two propulsion methods need different approaches. That maybe you don't care that you just set off on a quarter of a tank, because it would almost certainly have been more hassle to make a separate journey to the petrol station before setting off. Might as well just fill up on the road. But with an EV there is zero hassle in making sure that you start on 100%, so you do that.

I used to drive from Sussex to Lanarkshire regularly, and I never bothered to fill up before leaving. It wasn't worth the hassle. Even though I suspected that my Peugeot could possibly have done the 430 miles on one tank (it had a 60-litre tank). It was easier to make a quick stop on the road than to go out specially to fill up in advance.

I wouldn't dream of setting off on that one in an EV without a full charge. It's mental. It's a different way of working. If they persist in judging EVs by how you would run an ICE car, they'll never get it. I mean, it's not hard to get your brain round. It took me approximately 10 seconds to figure out that the SR range would suit me fine because I almost never drive more than 150 miles in a day, and when I do it's only very rarely, and I'd want to stop for a break now and again anyway. But some people just don't seem to grok this.

A programme showing all the little conveniences of the EV, from the full battery before you set off, to the pre-heating (or instant heat the minute you start the car if you forgot), through the torque and the handling, to the incredibly cheap running and maintenance costs, even including a shot of a picnic with the kettle boiling and remark that this can be quite useful at home if you have a power cut, would be actually informative.

Anyone who thinks that the god-awful noise an ICE makes is actually a good thing should be barred from taking part.

 

[tsedge]

I did not feel the same resentment towards the programme as many posts on here. They tried to highlight that it takes longer to charge a car than fill it with petrol – that was the point of starting at a low % charge and the petrol car having only ¼ of a tank.

The part that hit me between the eyes was how good the electric Merc was in comparison to the AMG version. To choose the AMG because of the “sound” is just vacuous.

I may be repeating myself, but take a PF MG5 SR. It is a medium sized estate – comparable with a Focus or Astra estate. I am going to concentrate on the driving characteristics of the MG5. To be honest, I have not driven a Focus or an Astra. The MG5 has amazing torque and acceleration – it has a 0-60 time equivalent to my old Lexus RX400h 3.3 litre V6. The noise levels are really subdued – a very quiet car for its segment. It rides very smoothly, smoother than my present Lexus NX300h. It handles well with virtually no body roll. It has ample boot space and legroom in the back. The seats I find comfortable with good adjustment.

If it were possible to swap badges and let a prospective buyer try the MG5, I think they would be amazed compared to the opposition. I feel it would win hands down.

When you ADD to that, very cheap to fuel and cheap to service – what is there not to like?

If the MG5 had all these qualities AND ran on petrol at 150 mpg the motoring press would be in raptures!

“Oh it is electric………..” then all the prejudices come out. As a group we will not change some people’s minds, no matter how good electric cars become.

Does my MG5 have soul? If it keeps working as it is at present, I really don’t give a toss! I feel fortunate to have dipped my toe into electric ownership. The advantages far outweigh any argument about charging times. I think used EV’s, in the present market, are remarkable value.

If you have a budget of £10,000 you can buy a Rolls Royce (there are 8 available on AutoTrader) or you can buy an EV. I know which I would spend my money on.

It is the repetition of inaccurate irrelevances that usually annoys me in these videos, such as:

"It takes longer to fill" - no it doesn't, I wake up with my car full every day so I never have to wait to fill it in a smelly dirty service station where I have to queue up to pay at a counter.

"it doesn't have the same range" - my range limit is what matters, not the car, I need to stop every few hours to rest, get refreshments and go to the toilet, the range is already more than this even in winter.

"it doesn't sound or feel like an ICE car" - of course not and not having clunky mechanical gear changes and clutches and loud noises is a big benefit.

"it doesn't drive like an ICE car" - thank God it doesn't, seamless electric power and regen braking is a far more satisfying experience.

"it has no soul" - no, you are just lost in the nostalgia of a dirty smelly mechanical past, EVs have personalities too.

 

[dragon2611]

No one would set off from home on a long trip with a battery at 25%!!

Only an idiot would do such a thing.

Or if the charging had stopped/failed to start for some reason, and you hadn't noticed.
I've had failures to start charging a few times due to my charger/it's API being a pile of junk.

That said I usually check it beforehand if i'm going on a longer trip so the effect was it just cost me more rather than leaving with a low SOC (Due to paying the more expensive electric rate)

 

[Rolfe]

"it has no soul" - no, you are just lost in the nostalgia of a dirty smelly mechanical past, EVs have personalities too.

This personality thing is weird, both ways. I regard Caliban as more of a personality than any of his predecessors, and I'm struggling to figure out why. It may be that the slightly quirky software, which doesn't always respond in exactly the same way every time, gives the impression that the car has moods. I think there's another factor too though. I'm a biologist. To me, life is electricity. Animal bodies work with electricity. No electricity, no nerve impulses, no muscle movements, no thought, no life. If the electricity isn't there, it's dead. Petrol and diesel are dead. A car running on petrol or diesel doesn't simulate life in my mind. A car running on electricity is a living thing. A car with electricity in its battery ready to go is a living thing. A car connected to a charger getting more energy is a living thing.

Well, that's how I seem to be thinking about it. While all my previous cars had names (and that's how Caliban ended up as Caliban, because they were all Tempest themed), I didn't often refer to them by name. I've got an iPod somewhere still named as "Prospero's iPod", but I didn't often call him by name. When I explained to a long-time friend who Miranda, Ferdinand, Ariel and Prospero actually were, she was surprised as she'd never heard me refer to the cars by name, just as "my car". But everybody knows who Caliban is!

ETA: When Prospero finally went, a couple of weeks after I picked up Caliban, I patted him on the bonnet and told him he'd been a good car and we'd had some terrific times together and said goodbye. I think the habit of seeing the car as a person had already infected me from driving Caliban, and it sort of spilled over towards Prospero retrospectively.