Question about tethered chargers

[5teep]

The emergency stop button isn't a legal requirement.

 

[johnb80]

NO, but this is potentially dangerous equipment in a public place. Requirement of PUWER.

I'm not convinced it is a requirement of PUWER......... Interestingly, one requirement of PUWER is :-
"ensure that all people who use, supervise or manage the use of work equipment have received adequate training, which should include the correct use of the equipment, the risks that may arise from its use and the precautions to take"

Have you received any training on operating public chargers?

If there is a major failure in the software that manages the EVSE it can blow all the circuitry but still have the high voltage, and high current part of the system operating as it is already connected.

I suspect that would not be the case, a watchdog timer will ensure the incoming supply is cut.

The emergency stop button is a manual high current circuit breaker.

The emergency stop button may control a high current circuit breaker, it certainly is not one.

 

[johnb80]

I’ve looked into the requirement of having an EMG stop button on public rapid chargers, I can’t find any requirement to have one which was my belief. I also looked at some new chargers installed 3 weeks ago near me and ……..

No EMG stop buttons!

 

[GaryMG4]

The just installed Kempower chargers at my local Sainsbury's have a red 'fireman's' switch on the fence opposite the charging bays.

 

[Roldorf]

No emergency stops on public chargers here. The only one I have seen is on an old Ikea free to load charger at our local Ikea store.

 

[fnegroni]

going back to the original question whether chargers lock the tethered cable plug until some form of payment is presented, I doubt that will ever be the case. Fastned and pod point for example have automatic car ID recognition which means you simply plug in the charger to your car to start the charge. No key, card nor app necessary.

 

[johnb80]

going back to the original question whether chargers lock the tethered cable plug until some form of payment is presented, I doubt that will ever be the case. Fastned and pod point for example have automatic car ID recognition which means you simply plug in the charger to your car to start the charge. No key, card nor app necessary.

Very few cars have the auto car id recognition installed, how do you suggest fastned and pod point deal with this?

 

[fnegroni]

Very few cars have the auto car id recognition installed, how do you suggest fastned and pod point deal with this?

I’m just saying automatic identification is great and I certainly want to see more of it. I don’t really see how locking the cable to the charger is going to stop someone vandalising a charger. Where there’s a will there’s a way.

 

[Rolfe]

Hmm, depends on the strength of the will though. It's a bit like saying there's no point in locking your house because the burglars will get in anyway if they want to.

You won't stop determined vandalism by having locking plugs, but you will stop casual interference, say by kids just messing around.

 

[Corindikev]

I agree, burglars and vandals are opportunists. If you make it more difficult they will try somewhere else.

 

[johnb80]

I’m just saying automatic identification is great and I certainly want to see more of it.

Of course, but it still doesnt deal with the charging plug being locked to the charger?

I don’t really see how locking the cable to the charger is going to stop someone vandalising a charger.

Probably not but if they were configured so that your session was still ongoing until you put the plug back in the charger where it could be locked, it would help cables not being thrown on the ground. A little bit like the coin slot on shopping trolleys, you return the trolley to get your £1 back.

Where there’s a will there’s a way.

Where there's a will there's a solicitor

 

[fnegroni]

Of course, but it still doesnt deal with the charging plug being locked to the charger?

Absolutely. I don’t want that plug locked to the charger.
Tbh I don’t know how many chargers you have seen vandalised but I ain’t seen any yet so unless we have some stats to prove this is an actual important issue…

 

[Gomev]

Very few cars have the auto car id recognition installed, how do you suggest fastned and pod point deal with this?

Many have used autocharge on Fastned. Register on their app do a charge and from then on it recognises the car and simply charges when you connect, like a Tesla.

https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/115012747127-What-is-Autocharge-

 

[johnb80]

Many have used autocharge on Fastned. Register on their app do a charge and from then on it recognises the car and simply charges when you connect, like a Tesla.

https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/115012747127-What-is-Autocharge-

I understand that and it's a great development but the majority of cars dont have the facility and hence the point I made without a card reader etc, how do the other cars charge?

 

[fnegroni]

I understand that and it's a great development but the majority of cars dont have the facility and hence the point I made without a card reader etc, how do the other cars charge?

Now I get the confusion.

The auto charge thing is entirely optional. Chargers and cars that support it use it. Everyone else can still use a card/fob or app.
If you simply plug in the charger and have registered for auto charge, it starts and charges you automatically.
If you didn’t register you can use the app or a card

 

[siteguru]

Thanks for the heads-up re autocharge ... I've just requested that functionality for my MG4; will need to activate it at a Fastned point. (There's one in the next town, about 10 miles away).

 

[Rolfe]

Could you describe the process in a bit more detail? I might be headed for the same place next week.

 

[fnegroni]

The process involves the app (fastned and Monta are the only two I’m aware of in the UK) and a visit to a charger.
You first register as usual on the app, then enable the auto-charge feature. The process is completed by connecting to a charger and telling the app to associate your car’s charger ID to your account.
Any subsequent time you want to charge with that network you simply turn up, plug in and the rest is automatic.

 

[Rolfe]

Thank you, I'll give that a shot. I did think the Fastned site 35 miles from me was so close I'd never need it, but it has now dawned on me that if I've driven too far for my range (possible in winter) and haven't managed to get on a type 2 while I'm parked, it's ideal for getting a bit extra to make sure I get home. And it has shelter.

Thanks. Done it. That was easy. Just have to call in to Hamilton and finish the activation next time I'm passing.

 

[Gomev]

I understand that and it's a great development but the majority of cars dont have the facility and hence the point I made without a card reader etc, how do the other cars charge?

Fastned say that 'most' cars that use CCS can use Autocharge although not all.
To use Autocharge, every vehicle needs a unique code. (does not use the digital signature and public key)
Each car with a CCS connector has a unique code that is exchanged with the charger when the connector is inserted into the car. Unlike the unique code of a charging code the unique code of a car is very hard to copy or modify.

Some vehicles have shared codes and because of that can not use Autocharge. Those that can't.....

• Audi e-tron (model 2018, cannot be guaranteed for model 2019) & Q4 e-tron
• Cupra Born
• Lucid Air
• Maxus eDeliver
• Mazda MX-30
• Volkswagen e-Up!, e-Golf, ID.3, ID.4 & ID.5, ID.Buzz
• Seat Mii electric
• Skoda Citigo e-iV & Enyaq iV
• BMW iX1 & BMW i7
• Rolls-Royce Spectre EV
• ORA Funky Cat

*courtesy of @EVsince2016

What is the difference between Autocharge and Plug & Charge?​

While Autocharge offers the same customer-friendly, seamless user experience as Plug & Charge, another EV industry approach to simplifying the charging experience, the underlying technologies are different. Plug & Charge uses the ISO 15118 protocol specifications, digital signatures, and public key infrastructures to secure communications between the vehicle and the charging infrastructure. While this approach offers more stringent security, it is far more complex, costly, and time consuming to implement. It also requires vehicle and charger manufacturers to support ISO 15118.