Recent Valuation 30% of what I paid less than 2 years years ago...!

[Paulie68]

In 2023 the MG4 EV was the second best selling EV in the UK with over 20,000 units sold (source MG). A good many of those will have been on PCP, probably for 2 years (as is mine). All of which means there will be many coming on to the market this year (Arnold Clark have 234 for sale starting at £14k, which means AC probably paid £12k). If you have a bubble payment in the order of £18k you aren't going to keep it, so it'll go into the trade market. Then you have to bear in the mind the surveys that haven't placed MG/MG4 in the best possible light. A sale/book/trade-in of £12k seems reasonable under the circumstances.

If Arnold Clark are selling for £14k, they paid nothing like £12k for them, more like £9k or £10k at most.

Just for giggles, I asked Motorway what they'd offer for my 2 month old Trophy 5 with 600 miles on it. (And they're one of the best payers!) £15,600 lol!!

 

[Everest]

Unless battery prices fall really dramatically then I imagine scrap prices will be really quite high. In 2035 a LR MG will still have about 40 or 50kWh of battery left which could be useful in many applications.

Not sure I'd agree with that. It's all very well what companies promote about re-using EV batteries for home energy storage systems, but, IMHO...

Home battery prices have fallen by nearly 50% in the last 2 years. 15kWh of battery storage is now only about £1000 for grade A cells and under £900 for grade B cells and that's via a UK supplier, not direct from China. So it's practical to DIY a 15kWh battery for under £1500 these days using industry standard components.

In 10 year's time that is likely to be a lot lot lower, even without considering the possibility of newer technology such a sodium-ion becoming mainstream.

The practicalities and manpower needed to dismantle and rebuild a battery pack into something that is usable is beyond all but the most hardened DIYers - we're talking about angle grinding welded bus bars and retapping of threads etc.

The MG LR uses NMC chemistry cells. These are simply far from ideal for home energy storage use - it makes no sense IMHO to use those instead of LFP. Apart from the fire-risk of those cells compared to LFP, most of the commercially available BMS control systems and inverters are designed for the voltage range and flatter discharge voltage curve of LFP.

An SE SR LFP battery pack might make sense for someone with the right skills to buy from a breaker's yard for £1500 in 2025, but I don't see how there would be much value in a 10 year old NMC pack in 2035.

It's being so cheerful that keeps me going

 

[Bam Bam]

The practicalities and manpower needed to dismantle and rebuild a battery pack into something that is usable is beyond all but the most hardened DIYers - we're talking about angle grinding welded bus bars and retapping of threads etc.

The MG LR uses NMC chemistry cells. These are simply far from ideal for home energy storage use - it makes no sense IMHO to use those instead of LFP. Apart from the fire-risk of those cells compared to LFP, most of the commercially available BMS control systems and inverters are designed for the voltage range and flatter discharge voltage curve of LFP.

LFP for the win.

However, why does the pack need to be broken up? I saw a Finnish guy put a leaf battery pack in his garage as home storage. Plugged into the orange connector with his own bits to make it work.

Plus, rather than DIY home batteries, what about someone buying numerous of these old packs kept whole (for the time being), putting them in a container and providing grid/industrial level power balancing/storage?

Also, if there was enough supply of the cells/modules then it could become a business (rather than DIY) proposition to break down packs and repurpose the cells/modules according to their remaining life.

That might not translate into a huge resale value, I suppose, but there would be potential there.

 

[Gomev]

Not sure I'd agree with that. It's all very well what companies promote about re-using EV batteries for home energy storage systems, but, IMHO...

Home battery prices have fallen by nearly 50% in the last 2 years. 15kWh of battery storage is now only about £1000 for grade A cells and under £900 for grade B cells and that's via a UK supplier, not direct from China. So it's practical to DIY a 15kWh battery for under £1500 these days using industry standard components.

In 10 year's time that is likely to be a lot lot lower, even without considering the possibility of newer technology such a sodium-ion becoming mainstream.

The practicalities and manpower needed to dismantle and rebuild a battery pack into something that is usable is beyond all but the most hardened DIYers - we're talking about angle grinding welded bus bars and retapping of threads etc.

The MG LR uses NMC chemistry cells. These are simply far from ideal for home energy storage use - it makes no sense IMHO to use those instead of LFP. Apart from the fire-risk of those cells compared to LFP, most of the commercially available BMS control systems and inverters are designed for the voltage range and flatter discharge voltage curve of LFP.

An SE SR LFP battery pack might make sense for someone with the right skills to buy from a breaker's yard for £1500 in 2025, but I don't see how there would be much value in a 10 year old NMC pack in 2035.

It's being so cheerful that keeps me going

and on the good news front for the UK

Altilium commences LFP battery recycling operations - letsrecycle.com

Altilium has announced the commencement of its recycling operations for Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) batteries in the UK.

www.letsrecycle.com

 

[Everest]

LFP for the win.

However, why does the pack need to be broken up? I saw a Finnish guy put a leaf battery pack in his garage as home storage. Plugged into the orange connector with his own bits to make it work.

I'd be interested in the link if you have it. Most DIY-able inverters use nominal 48V battery systems and operate in the range of about 45 to 60V. This is somewhat a hangover from older LA based systems using 12V batteries in series. So lower power inverters may run off 12V or 24V and anything over about 3000W needs 48V (i.e. to keep the current down).

A leaf battery will be around 360V-400V so I see there are 2 options - a) break it down into manageable '48V' units or b) interface it to a HV inverter which are more common nowadays than they were 2 years ago. BUT the problem with the latter is whereas 'standard' 48V system use known, published and open interface protocols running over old fashioned RS485 or CANBus interfaces, the newer HV inverters run proprietary protocols and - AFAIAA - will only operate with limited, tested batteries from partner companies. Not an area I've read a great deal about though.

Here's a link to a thread on leaf battery repurposing - at least it looks impressive!

Using gen.1 Nissan leaf battery pack as home battery backup

Hey guys, here in Norway you can buy used 24kWh battery packs out of the 1.gen Nissan leaf for about 2.000 - 2.500usd and I am too much of a novice to know if there are good reasons not to use one of these packs as a "powerwall" these are packs that have been tested to greater than 85% of the...

diysolarforum.com

That might not translate into a huge resale value, I suppose, but there would be potential there.

the pun!

Edited to add, thanks to @Bam Bam's video link below it is possible to interface to HV inverters, so ignore the bits crossed out above

 

[Paulie68]

LFP for the win.

However, why does the pack need to be broken up? I saw a Finnish guy put a leaf battery pack in his garage as home storage. Plugged into the orange connector with his own bits to make it work.

Plus, rather than DIY home batteries, what about someone buying numerous of these old packs kept whole (for the time being), putting them in a container and providing grid/industrial level power balancing/storage?

Also, if there was enough supply of the cells/modules then it could become a business (rather than DIY) proposition to break down packs and repurpose the cells/modules according to their remaining life.

That might not translate into a huge resale value, I suppose, but there would be potential there.

No one except a very few eccentric engineers are going to be using car battery packs for home storage, it will make your house uninsurable against fire for one thing. It'll be about as popular as people fitting and commissioning their own gas boilers!

 

[Bam Bam]

I'd be interested in the link if you have it.


the pun!

I do love a pun but I'll have to give you the credit for noticing that one when I did not!

Here is the Finnish guy tinkering with Leaf batteries:

 

[Everest]

That's fascinating and good to know you can DIY interface to the CANBus of some HV inverters - I didn't realise that. Having said that, I still wouldn't want any sizeable NMC battery near my house that is not fully enclosed in a car-sized steel container.

 

[ElectricBenSolar]

Thanks for all your comments, makes sense. Looks like I’ll be keeping the MG5 for a while then, at least until there’s less stock on the market perhaps, it’s perfect condition and runs great, and I really like it generally, some annoyances but get that with any car.

I was just curious about the trade in and couldn’t believe it was so low so quickly.

 

[smokie]

Sold my pre-FL in Dec to Motorway for £11.4k complete with 24k miles and a modest scratch on the near rear. I don't think I'd have got more privately and it was a good thou or more above WBAC, who take some fees out of your valuation too. I'd got he car on NHS pricing so depreciation was somewhere around £12k, maybe a bit more. The new ones at £22k were too good to let them get away!!

The Motorway selling experience was painless and I'd do it again.

 

[ayres]

Many people bought the car through affinity so heavily discounted or benefited from bic so upto 40% off so this sets the start price value for many as many would buy the low price new over. Similar priced 2nd hand car.

 

[Wibble]

I think I'm just going to keep using mine until it goes pop, should be good for at least another 8 more years at my current use. Probably a lot more.

 

[ayres]

That’s the plan for mine. Perfect car for my 80mile commute. Keep it doing that until it can’t I figure.

 

[Fokmg]

I purchased my MG5 exclusive new but as a demonstrator with 4 miles on the clock! nearly 4 years ago for under £23K , I have been offered a Trophy 5EV LR with delivery mileage of 100 and it will cost about £11k to do the deal? Its what it costs to make the change that counts I reckon the loss of £3K per year is about what I would expect (actually better rate of depreciation than I planned when I bought the car nearly 4 years ago)
At the end of the day its the deal you strike and at the moment there are brilliant buys around due to the silly tales about Electric Cars.
Simple rule if charging the car is no problem go electric, otherwise wait until the infrastructure is in place!

 

[astrobiker]

If you think depreciation on a car is bad it’s fantastic compared to a holiday. You go for a week or so and get nothing back. Yet you get fantastic use out of your car and complain after several years that it lost money

 

[Berkofix]

Bought a MG5 LR Trophy brand new for £21450 in October.

MG5 EV

Presenting the MG5 EV with next-level luxury backed up by pure electric power. You get the same first-class experience expected of an executive car but with a seriously reduced running cost. The MG5 EV has ample power too, with an impressive sprint from 0 to 62mph of 7.3 seconds and an electric...

www.emgmotorgroup.com

Looks like they're advertising new MG5's for £34k here? perhaps it's an old page/site or something.

Dealer suggested MG were clearing stock. We had looked at the MG4 and ZS with NHS style discounts and magic MG pricing support at around the £26k mark.

Essentially I just wanted a 60kwh battery on wheels with storage and roof bars!

 

[Muffler]

Bought a 6yr old FL MG6 with just 13k miles on the clock in 2022, as a runaround / commute to station etc for £6.3k. Currently looking to offload it with 30k miles and after 27 months of ownership will get circa £3k (if I'm lucky). Still amounts to roughly 50% depreciation across 2 years, but just from a lower starting figure.

With MG heavily discounting at the end of last year the XPower and FL5 deals available were simply too good to refuse and loving both of them. The XPower is going to get caned for mileage whilst the 5 will see comparatively little, so will be interesting to see what differences there are between residuals for both over next couple of years. Either way, it's all relative - take away the insanely poor aftercare service from MG, the cars are exceptional for the price/performance/spec point and a pleasure to drive.

 

[google1901]

I’ve been tracking my 5 (23 plate, FL LR) & other manufacturers for awhile. And yes got more for my ZS in part-ex than my 5 is now worth! I've noticed whether off the forecourt ( few miles) or 2nd hand all EV prices are down. It means I’ll keep the MG5 rather than renew every 3 years.

 

[Paulie68]

I’ve been tracking my 5 (23 plate, FL LR) & other manufacturers for awhile. And yes got more for my ZS in part-ex than my 5 is now worth! I've noticed whether off the forecourt ( few miles) or 2nd hand all EV prices are down. It means I’ll keep the MG5 rather than renew every 3 years.

There's currently concerted anti EV attacks daily in all right wing media. (And sadly even in some more moderate media) It's working to slow adoption, many used car dealers are terrified of EV's and don't want to sell them at all. It's all adding to heavy depreciation.

The oil industry and anti climate/humanity brigade sure as hell aren't letting ICE go without a fight.

 

[Jymbob]

That's fascinating and good to know you can DIY interface to the CANBus of some HV inverters - I didn't realise that. Having said that, I still wouldn't want any sizeable NMC battery near my house that is not fully enclosed in a car-sized steel container.

I'm part of Dala's Discord and while it's just a few of us DIYing solutions in the UK there are also a variety of people in other countries starting up businesses providing off-grid systems built around second life batteries. Safety is discussed often and even when talking about LFP the current guidelines strongly advocate positioning the battery in an outhouse or other container where there is no risk to a home. Indeed, one of the arguments for using a pack from a vehicle over a 48V system is that the car's BMS has more safety features than many off the shelf batteries. Splitting packs is again discouraged if it can be avoided.

Interestingly no-one we know of is currently running an MG battery as a home storage battery, although a few are working on it. Despite MG getting slammed for reliability last year, there are far fewer crash-damaged MGs showing up at auction than Teslas, Leafs or Hyundais.