Solar energy systems in Australia and Netherlands

[Corindikev]

I got my extra 6.6kW solar system installed on Tuesday, well that is the theoretical maximum power of the panels but the inverter is 5kW maximum. So now I have a total of 8.6kW but a real maximum power out of the 2 inverters of just under 7kW.

The monitoring system was not set up till Wednesday evening and it was overcast on Thursday with only brief sunny periods. Even so I was producing 3.5kW or more from about 10am to 2 pm so enough to plug in the EVSE and limit the charge to 16 amps (around 3.5kW) so I took the battery from 18% to 51% all from solar generation on a cloudy day.

Today I was away all day but still had 4 kW when I got home at 3.30pm so got a couple of hours. I get free power on Weekends for 4 hours but it is off peak all day anyway. It is time for my monthly 100% charge so I'll do that Sunday as I am away tomorrow.

From now on all my EV charging will be from solar generation when I'm home. I will be keeping a record and will base the payback ($3,990.00) on what I would have spent on petrol if I still had an ICE car. My initial calculations are within 3 years. I'll see how I go & post results.

 

[siteguru]

Do you not have battery storage to make use of the excess solar? (i.e. that generated when you're not charging the car).

 

[wattmatters]

Do you not have battery storage to make use of the excess solar? (i.e. that generated when you're not charging the car).

Home batteries in Australia, at least the sort commercially installed (e.g. Tesla Powerwall 2), are not really financially viable, at least not yet. They still cost too much for their lifetime energy throughput, typically it's just cheaper to buy from the grid and sell the excess generation even though export credits are a fraction of the import tariff.

There are edge cases where they make financial sense, and of course for those who need some form of automated backup for grid outages.

A battery on wheels makes more sense.

I have a home battery but it's an off-grid system I built with some help from a licensed electrician, hence much more battery for a lot less money. Initial motivation was an automated system covering for all the grid outages we get, but since it was able to power the home, I augmented it such that it runs the home most of the time.

I got my extra 6.6kW solar system installed on Tuesday

Nice. You will enjoy the extra capacity.

I get free power on Weekends for 4 hours but it is off peak all day anyway.

What retail plan is that?

From now on all my EV charging will be from solar generation when I'm home.

I try to do as much from home solar as possible but unfortunately I do sometimes need to charge from off-peak grid power and also DC fast chargers when on a road trip.

This Summer has been a bit brutal with heat/humidity and the aircon system has been dominating the use of our solar PV (even though we have 13.2 kW total PV). And if I get cloudy/rainy days at the wrong time (like Wed/Thu this week) then I need to use grid to charge up before a trip. I went to Coffs, then to Port Mac and back yesterday so overnight charging it was.

This my breakdown by charge source so far:

Home solar costs me 12c/kWh at the moment (that's my feed-in tariff).
Home grid costs 33c/kWh for off-peak.

My tariff plan works OK for our overall energy use and production but will change again at some stage this year.

And while I was in Port yesterday, I needed a bit of DC fast charging to get home so I tried out the new Tesla supercharger stop at Thrumster.

No problem with charging speed and it just worked, first go. Never had that experience before.

Expensive at 85c/kWh but if it works and is available then few extra $ occasionally isn't going to kill me. Does need the phone app to work, so mobile outages would still be an issue. No RFID option.

There are six charge stations there with another six with covers on looking like they are to be commissioned soon. The site has cafes, shops and a nice new and clean toilet facility. It's a good wife-friendly charge stop option.

 

[ozzz]

I have a 6.5kW system on my house and generates about 30-40kWh a day so I leave my car on for 5 hours a day that works for me and if needed I use the free 6.5kW at local shops .
Battery storage I contacted the mob on TV regarding the $3.990 fully installed battery, they called me did the quote and came back $13,000 what a joke , I use 7-10 kWh per day, rest to the car and grid @ 7c/kWh feed in tariff.

 

[Corindikev]

My Electricity retailer is Red Energy and I migrated to the Red EV Saver plan. I get the same peak/shoulder/off peak rates as their other solar plans but with two hours free on Saturday & the same Sunday, not that it will cost them anything if it is sunny. My FiT is 7c/kWh.

OVO has a plan where they provide free power at certain times during the day when there is a lot of solar being sold back to the grid so the spot price is low and they also have 8c/kWh from midnight to 6am. The problem is that it is not available in the Essential Energy network area.

 

[Corindikev]

Do you not have battery storage to make use of the excess solar? (i.e. that generated when you're not charging the car).

No. Wattmatters has explained why.

 

[ChrisR]

OVO has a plan where they provide free power at certain times during the day when there is a lot of solar being sold back to the grid so the spot price is low and they also have 8c/kWh from midnight to 6am. The problem is that it is not available in the Essential Energy network area.

OVO is available in some Essential areas. I switched to them here in Tweed. Currently on the 8c/kWh midnight to 6am rate but might go to the free lunchtime rate as I'm home enough days for it to work.

 

[wattmatters]

My Electricity retailer is Red Energy and I migrated to the Red EV Saver plan.

Ah, I read it as four hours/day being free. I hadn't heard of that hence wondering.

Yeah the Red Energy plans are reasonable, not quite the best for us. Their TOU plans for Essential Energy region however are confusing as they don't advertise the same TOU periods as Essential Energy and most other retailers use (they use the old interval meter TOU periods with the morning peak period).

I have to wonder if Red Energy require homes in Essential region with smart meters to move to a demand plan.

I expect I'll have to change at some stage as my retailer will no doubt end my current plan.

OVO has a plan where they provide free power at certain times during the day

Yeah, their 3 Free plan. The feed-in tariff is only 3c/kWh though, which kind of buggers it up. You will first consume your solar PV before importing any "free" energy.

It works out quite a bit more expensive for us.

The problem is that it is not available in the Essential Energy network area

OVO's EV plan with 8c/kWh midnight-6AM every day and FIT of 8c/kWh is available in Essential Energy region. It's listed as an option from their website (you have to select EV from their dropdown selectors):

https://www.energymadeeasy.gov.au/plan?id=OVO704435MRE4&postcode=2456

The other kicker are the high daily charges. Red Energy are better than most for that but we pay a lot in Essential region.

These plans make sense for people without much solar PV, especially if they can load shift.

 

[wattmatters]

Battery storage I contacted the mob on TV regarding

Never buy the TV specials and never ever respond to solicitations for PV/battery systems be it door to door or letters, emails etc. They are universally crap systems, represent very poor value for money and have many a dodgy installation.

 

[Corindikev]

The OVO plan available for my location had quite high normal peak/shoulder/off peak rates so Red Energy was the best pick.. They installed a smart meter a few weeks ago. I had thought I already had one when checking the model on the web. Turns out it was the basic model with the capability but didn't have the comms module installed.

Once home batteries become viable I may invest in one but at present retailers are just profiteering from them big time.

My old friend who recently died owned Palmers Island Airfield & he put his system in 10 years ago with a bank of 2nd hand lead acid batteries & his panels & the batteries are still running his house and sheds plus the hangars & the clubhouse he built.

Essential wanted 30k to put 2 power poles in to supply him so he told them to get stuffed, put the system in plus a backup diesel generator for less. This was in 2011. A year or so back he told me the only time he'd ever run the generator was to make sure it still worked about once a year.

 

[wattmatters]

They installed a smart meter a few weeks ago. I had thought I already had one when checking the model on the web. Turns out it was the basic model with the capability but didn't have the comms module installed.

Yeah, there are digital meters which are interval meters but not "smart", i.e. with comms.

Generally they either record all the interval data, or have registers set up for the older TOU periods. Either way it gets downloaded by a meter reader.

Typically these older ones use different TOU periods and pricing (it's in the Essential Energy Network price list), and the tariffs are based on BLNT3AU.

https://www.essentialenergy.com.au/-/media/Project/EssentialEnergy/Website/Files/Our-Network/NetworkPriceListandExplanatoryNotes202324.pdf?la=en&hash=C82AE458044BAD850477667DAAB21E96DF3D1832

The modern smart meter can be either on a BLNT3AL (TOU tariff) or BLND1AR (Demand tariff). BLNT3AL is the default.

Essential wanted 30k to put 2 power poles in

Sounds about right, would be more now.

In 2019 to get approval for our second dwelling, Essential required we either reduce our supply to 3 x 32 A (we are 3Φ), or to keep the 3 x 63A supply we had to pay for a local transformer upgrade, expected to cost $35-50k. A transformer serving multiple properties, including a commercial enterprise.

Unsurprisingly I stuck with the 3 x 32 A limit, but it means our load balancing is a fine art. I can't just whack on the single phase EV charger at full power at night if there will also be other power hungry appliances operating on that phase (and with three buildings to cover, it's always a possibility).

Daytime power from solar means the limit is rarely if ever threatened, it's just when I need to do a night time charge I need to be careful.

It's why I eventually want to move to local automation control of the EVSE rather than use ChargeHQ. ChargeHQ is working pretty well but it can't cover all my unique load control challenges. It can automatically stay within a given total supply current limit, however it does not parse the individual phase data, which is what I'd need. So when i charge overnight I normally set a 20A limit, to give some headroom.

 

[Corindikev]

My meter will be on the BLNT3AL tariff as it is TOU and sends data at 30 minute intervals. I can see my energy use & feed kWh in on the Red Energy app the following day.

 

[Coulomb]

or to keep the 3 x 63A supply we had to pay for a local transformer upgrade, expected to cost $35-50k. A transformer serving multiple properties, including a commercial enterprise.

So was $30-50k your share of the transformer upgrade, or the total?

I know that iron, copper, and special oil designed to last for 50 years with little to no maintenance can get expensive.

Interesting that they expose that sort of cost choice to end users these days. In the old days, it was all government owned, and it all came from consolidate revenue. Now, we get to experience some of the growth pains. Isn't progress wonderful? ?

 

[NLMGSAN]

My Electricity retailer is Red Energy and I migrated to the Red EV Saver plan. I get the same peak/shoulder/off peak rates as their other solar plans but with two hours free on Saturday & the same Sunday, not that it will cost them anything if it is sunny. My FiT is 7c/kWh.

OVO has a plan where they provide free power at certain times during the day when there is a lot of solar being sold back to the grid so the spot price is low and they also have 8c/kWh from midnight to 6am. The problem is that it is not available in the Essential Energy network area.

Interesting. One specific company in the Netherlands is offering something similar here as of April 1st until end of August on weekends.
Is there also a congestion issue with the power grid in Australia?

 

[Coulomb]

Is there also a congestion issue with the power grid in Australia?

There can be, on particularly extreme weather days, which are becoming more frequent. I read somewhere that thousands of air conditioners were turned down by electric utility companies, on a sweltering hot day. Most new air conditioners have this "feature".

It sounds really bad, until you consider that the alternative is that a bunch of people getting no power at all (load shedding). Electrical infrastructure has its limits, and catering for the one or two extreme days of the year is extremely expensive. We also have the "tyranny of distance"; a minority of our population is spread out over a very large area, so our rural cousins sometimes get a very poor electrical service. Some are getting fed up and installing microgrids that are powered largely by renewables, backed up by diesel generators. Even if fusion power finally gives most of the world abundant cheap energy, these isolated communities are still likely to miss out. Nuclear fission power is on the nose in Australia, and we don't have a nearby country like France that generates a lot of power from fission. Ironically, we used to export a lot of uranium. One of our biggest uranium mines closed a few years ago.

For most of us in cities, the electricity grid is really pretty good, as we have abundant coal, and a few places have good hydro-electric power. We have four eastern states that are joined into one very large (in extent, not so much in total power or energy compared with say Europe). This helps when we get infrastructure damaged by cyclones and bushfires.

We're installing a lot of renewables, but the problem is that the generation and the demand are often very far apart in Australia, necessitating giant transmission systems, and there is a some Not In My Back Yard (NIMBY) resistance to this. It doesn't help that we have political fractions that declare that wind turbines are an eye-sore and kill thousands of birds, electric vehicles will kill the weekend, and so on.

 

[NLMGSAN]

There can be, on particularly extreme weather days, which are becoming more frequent. I read somewhere that thousands of air conditioners were turned down by electric utility companies, on a sweltering hot day. Most new air conditioners have this "feature".

It sounds really bad, until you consider that the alternative is that a bunch of people getting no power at all (load shedding). Electrical infrastructure has its limits, and catering for the one or two extreme days of the year is extremely expensive. We also have the "tyranny of distance"; a minority of our population is spread out over a very large area, so our rural cousins sometimes get a very poor electrical service. Some are getting fed up and installing microgrids that are powered largely by renewables, backed up by diesel generators. Even if fusion power finally gives most of the world abundant cheap energy, these isolated communities are still likely to miss out. Nuclear fission power is on the nose in Australia, and we don't have a nearby country like France that generates a lot of power from fission. Ironically, we used to export a lot of uranium. One of our biggest uranium mines closed a few years ago.

For most of us in cities, the electricity grid is really pretty good, as we have abundant coal, and a few places have good hydro-electric power. We have four eastern states that are joined into one very large (in extent, not so much in total power or energy compared with say Europe). This helps when we get infrastructure damaged by cyclones and bushfires.

We're installing a lot of renewables, but the problem is that the generation and the demand are often very far apart in Australia, necessitating giant transmission systems, and there is a some Not In My Back Yard (NIMBY) resistance to this. It doesn't help that we have political fractions that declare that wind turbines are an eye-sore and kill thousands of birds, electric vehicles will kill the weekend, and so on.

We also have a capacity issue causing newly built houses not to be connected to the grid and companies not being able to switch to electricity. This isn't a production issue. It's transmission. This results in another congestion caused by our green efforts. We produce 44% of our total power demand with solar and wind. 15% comes comes from solar and a lot of that comes from privately owned panels on our roofs. Starting in April all the way through August and partially September we cannot off load our solar power to the grid and inverters are shut down. Too much electricity! This particularly evident during weekends when the industry is 'inactive'. There is one company offering free power in these weekends (also if you do not have panels) while panel owners do not get paid anything for their solar energy.
This has lead to a general attitude to punish solar panel owners by either having to pay a power delivery fee, or not paying them per kWh at all.
This issue could be solved if we could afford a decent battery. But they are too expensive. With a sufficient capacity (between 10 to 20 kWh day-to-day buffer) you can fill your batteries to go off the grid completely for about 4 months a year. Electricity companies are of course against affordable batteries because now they get free green power from their customers but also the money for the electricity their solar panel owners need outside solar hours.
The lack of affordable large batteries is one of the reasons I will not use home charge facilities for an EV in the near future. Not even mentioning the local government refusing to allow to do so (car is not parked on private territory).

 

[wattmatters]

I can see my energy use & feed kWh in on the Red Energy app the following day.

That's good. Does it allow you to download your interval data? Their website is a bit skinny on their service.

So was $30-50k your share of the transformer upgrade, or the total?

Total.

Is there also a congestion issue with the power grid in Australia?

The issues in some areas is too much solar PV.

The state of South Australia is our "canary in the coal mine" having to implement a range of strategies (70% of their energy is from wind and solar PV and at times 100% of their state demand is being met by rooftop PV alone).

What they are now doing is requiring new PV inverters be network connected so they can be controlled by the system operator, with exports and/or production ramped down when needed.

The quid pro quo is they are approving larger inverters and higher export limits and this is favourable most of the time (e.g. Winter, cloudy days) while the only time output is curtailed is when the grid is well oversupplied.

They've also installed more grid scale batteries and syncons to help with grid stability and to reduce reliance on gas peakers for this job. A new HV interconnector is also being put in to neighbouring state of NSW which also helps spread the capacity.

 

[NLMGSAN]

The issues in some areas is too much solar PV.

Identical here.

They've also installed more grid scale batteries and syncons to help with grid stability and to reduce reliance on gas peakers for this job. A new HV interconnector is also being put in to neighbouring state of NSW which also helps spread the capacity.

We should start doing this as well. But basically, the government fell asleep and forgot to increase the grid capacity. Now they are in a hurry...
They also should have worked on solutions to cover overproduction with something else than batteries. We are now dumpy power with negative prices...

 

[PeterM]

I have a home battery but it's an off-grid system I built with some help from a licensed electrician, hence much more battery for a lot less money. Initial motivation was an automated system covering for all the grid outages we get, but since it was able to power the home, I augmented it such that it runs the home most of the time.

Mind sharing some more info on your setup wattmatters?
I've been exploring some options myself (and observing what not to do from the diypowerwalls and secondlifestorage pages!).
Interested in how you achieved a setup that abides by the various rules in AU. Peter Matthews (HBPowerwall) seems to have the most useful information that I've found, running MPPSolar+Batrium.

Thanks

 

[wattmatters]

Mind sharing some more info on your setup wattmatters?

A detailed explanation is off-topic for this thread, so just some outlines / pictures.

Firstly we have a pretty standard grid-tied PV system (Fronius Symo 10 kW with 11 kW of PV). Installed in 2018.

In addition I have an off-grid system. This has evolved significantly over the past two+ years and keeps evolving. It started out as a COVID lockdown project to give me something useful to do, i.e. provide a better grid outage backup system. But it has grown somewhat, classic scope creep as I learned more and realised it was very capable of doing more.

It can pass grid power through to loads if desired but is incapable of energising the grid supply. It supplies the home via a "break before make" transfer switch and dedicated essential loads panel.

8 kW AIO inverter
15 kWh of LiFePO₄ server rack batteries
20 kWh of sealed lead acid batteries for backup reserve
2.2 kW of off-grid PV
I hope to add another 6+ kW of PV to the off-grid in time (I have the panels and racking etc).

This is the area around the main circuit board but that's not everything of course.

Grid-PV:

Off-grid PV (garage):

Batteries:

Each is independently fused. I'll tidy it up a bit more at some stage but it's all in its own housing.

The SLA are ex-data centre units, designed for power backup. Very good quality.

The off-grid system is monitored using Solar Assistant on a Raspberry Pi, which in turn is integrated with Home Assistant I have running on a mini-PC / Proxmox virtual machine. This does all the energy management stuff, automations looking after what mode to operate in and when to change modes, when to charge batteries using supplemental energy from the grid-tied PV, load dumping if necessary, etc.

Here's the single phase OCPP ZJBeny EV charge station with a sub-board in the garage (as well as a data point):

EV charging is currently managed with ChargeHQ although in time I'll probably move that to local control as I am dealing with such a unique set of circumstances with our supply and set up that ChargeHQ can't do all that I want.

The water heater is powered with a smart PV diverter which uses only excess solar PV to heat water in a 315 litre resistive element tank. In 2023 we imported just 12 kWh for water heating.

Interested in how you achieved a setup that abides by the various rules in AU.

How perfectly compliant the off-grid system is, I can't say for absolute certainty because while ever our electrical standards remain behind ridiculously expensive paywalls, then they can take a running jump. We are rural location so need a level of self sufficiency.

The licensed sparky was happy with it but if you want to find elements of non-compliance I'm sure you will. There will be non-compliance in pretty much every home if you look for it.

This is not a path I suggest many consider/take.