Sudden automatic braking issue (merged, MG4)

[NLMGSAN]

The thing with these systems is that 'objective studies' do show possitive effects. But those are extrapolated effects to all road users. There is no discussion about the exceptions: when the systems fail. In some case they scare the hell out of you, in very rare cases they might cause casualties. But overall.... the average is what makes the policies tick.

The manufacturers know this. All of them. Look at the manuals and read the chapters about those safety systems. The most important part is about responsibility: it is you. The driver. Next, there will be lists so you know when these systems may not work properly, or when they simply are bound to fail. The latter coincides with a strict advice to disable immediately/asap etc. So if anything happens, you are the moron. After all of this, then they will describe what these system are supposed to do.

This is why any button, how deeply hidden in the systems it may be, will always allow you to disable them. If they take that away, you can no longer be held responsible in general and that is a risk manufacturers will not take.

What we are currently doing is describe events where these systems either blatently fail or intervene with a better response from the driver. They are anecdotical of nature, poorly documented and easily classified as 'subjective and flawed observations', as well as suspect of poor use. On the other side we have goverments, regulatory organisations with an eye on the big numbers (such as NCAP), insurance and car companies (with an eye on big 'numbers' too).

For things to change we first need a number of deaths and a string of law suites. Unless systems drastically improve. Than the issues will fade away.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

I have it and LKA permanently disabled but that doe not say I should not understand how it works or as in this case does not work. For it to work it has to recognise certain parameters within its programming , but on the road these can be replicated just due to the multitude of variables which are present. One of these could be poor alignment as Rolfe suggests , others have had issues crossing rail lines , parked cars etc. Indeed the manufacturers do not have much faith in their products, they probably feel that this has been forced upon them, with all their warnings of ultimate responsibility in the user manuals. Given that ,they do not mind the extra profit margins the 5 star safety accreditation gives them. But it does end up that we are paying for extra features and extra servicing costs for things we never use.

 

[NLMGSAN]

I have it and LKA permanently disabled

There are a lot of drivers that keep LKA activated. And it is quit logical too. First, they probably do work most of the time. And if you use a car in similar circumstances every day where these systems cannot be fooled, why should you disable them? I also hear people say 'I have it on all the time', forgetting they rarely go over 65 kmh when going to the groceries....

Then there is difference between modes. So if by any chance you always set LKA on but select Alert or to LDA (the latter only makes mild movements on the steering wheel), you will not suffer much from LKA. The worst one is ELK, whatever software version you are on. That is the one mode applying more force when it observes 'an emergency situation'. The combo of a wrong assesment of the situation and a strong intervention on the wheel is when drivers sense a feeling of loss of control. Which is opposite to what these systems are supposed to do.

My personal experience adds another one. Wheather was fine. LDW was on (I disable ELK by default). Driving on the highway with ACC at 100kmh I drove the car into a long bend. So the car slowly moved to the edge of the lane (clear solid line). These outer lines create a rumbling sound when your tires touch them. I heared the rumble. So I was like Huuh? I corrected the car. I checked the menu and for sure LDA was activated. A couple of km's later I tried to replicate it but I could not.

A glitch the dealer said. Unreliable I said.. From that moment, I only use Alert. This is the only system that fully and always depends on my own steering capabilities, yet 'attempts' to help me observe.

The same may soon be applied to the forward collision system if it hits my brakes without any reason.

So yes, give me a 4 star MG4!

 

[AndyL61]

Is it just me ? I don't like LKA , and as such have always turned it off on any car I have driven with it fitted. However when I have occasionally forgotten and it has activated, at no point can it over power the driver , you are stronger than the system and you can control where the car steers to. Yes it can be surprising but as soon as you hear the warning, see the display or feel the twitch you can over power it . Like I said, I choose to turn it off because I simply don't like it but I could never seriously say it could kill me.

 

[TerryN]

Indeed, it's the surprise element that I find most annoying. Especially when it kicks in when you're concentrating on trying to avoid something in the road.
I always turn it off (when I remember)

 

[NLMGSAN]

However when I have occasionally forgotten and it has activated, at no point can it over power the driver , you are stronger than the system and you can control where the car steers to.

I'm not saying you can't. But there is clearly more resistance against your own steering. Do you happen to have the SE? Because as far as I know it doesn't have all three modes

 

[AndyL61]

I'm not saying you can't. But there is clearly more resistance against your own steering. Do you happen to have the SE? Because as far as I know it doesn't have all three modes

No I have a Trophy, the point I was making is dislike it as I do I cannot say it could ever be capable of killing me as I can over power it , so yes it is annoying but not the dangerous potential killer some people keep claiming.

 

[tsedge]

I've seen no evidence of anyone being killed by LKA. There are several people claiming they had a crash due to it, but without dashcam evidence it is hard to be sure.

I turn it off every drive, I like to steer myself without help.

 

[seaphantom]

Driving out of a Morrison's supermarket at the weekend my MG4 suddenly decided to [for the want of a better phrase] emergency brake. This happened once before in the new year, but I out it down to a one off. Fortunately there was no one behind me, but it did give my passenger and I quite a shock. It was at an exit point with a street bollard nearby. I wonder if somehow the cars system my have mistook the bollard for a pedestrian, and if anyone else has had this problem/reported to a dealer? Once I've had feedback I can then discuss with my dealer. I'd appreciate any feedback from anyone else who have had this happen to them.

Roundabouts. My MG4 hates roundabouts it brakes randomly on them and scares the crap out of me. But then you get on to a straight stretch of road and all should be well! Till the LKA (let's kill you any way we can) cuts in and diverts you into a wide load. I really love my MG4 but the bugs really need addressing.

 

[Rolfe]

I did get a phantom braking episode the other day, but it wasn't an emergency stop, so it was more of an annoyance than anything. That's once in 6,500 miles. I don't mind that. But if it was doing actual emergency stops, that woud be a different matter.

 

[JonnyG]

I've had emergency braking (to a stop) come on a few times but all for good reasons.

1. Late braking approaching a queue of traffic where the car must have thought it would be more cautious than me ?.

2. Turning right into a side road when I leave a bit of a gap in front so I can start to creep forward while an opposing car passes. I start to creep forward in anticipation of the gap and start to turn the steering wheel slightly. The car must think I'm about to floor it rather than keep creeping and so puts on the anchors again very abruptly ?

I can't complain really as all of these occasions had a reason, and had I not been fully aware of what I was doing they would have saved me in all instances.

Thankfully no "phantom braking" for no good reason to report yet in 2750 miles of driving.

 

[mauns]

So I've read about this but it's never happened to me/my car until Monday this week.

I'd just got off the motorway. I had my daughters in the car with me and went to pick up my son after school. As I left the car park (speed around 20-30 mph). Without warning the emergency brake came on. We were jolted. My daughter thought I'd hit something. There was nothing in front of me and luckily, no one behind me. It was really scary and the fact I'd only just got off the motorway was a terrifying thought if it had happened then.

I've booked it into the MG garage but first date is 15 April! I now have to manually turn off AEB before every drive.

I was wondering how many of you have experienced this and if it was taken to the garage has it happened since?

 

[Ejaydee]

I have had the AEB come on once, but in the car's defence, there was a double decker bus on my side of the road which was overtaking some parked traffic. However, the emergency braking caught me by surprise, as I was still rolling forward at 15 to 20 mph and was brought to an abrupt standstill.

I guess the car's systems thought the bus was going to plough into us, although it was obvious to me (as a human ?) what the bus was doing and was no threat.

As you say, the emergency braking process is rather scary, and bus driver looked at me rather quizzically as he pulled back into his lane and passed me, because he probably thought I had slammed on the brakes. What really caught me out was the distance away that the bus was when the AEB activated, it must have been between 50 and 75 metres away!

Thankfully, the car has behaved itself ever since, and recently it had some sort of software update at the Dealer's, which has made it a joy to drive, and even the LKA is behaving itself, which before the update, it definitely wasn't.

 

[MG4NI]

I have had the AEB come on once, but in the car's defence, there was a double decker bus on my side of the road which was overtaking some parked traffic. However, the emergency braking caught me by surprise, as I was still rolling forward at 15 to 20 mph and was brought to an abrupt standstill.

I guess the car's systems thought the bus was going to plough into us, although it was obvious to me (as a human ?) what the bus was doing and was no threat.

As you say, the emergency braking process is rather scary, and bus driver looked at me rather quizzically as he pulled back into his lane and passed me, because he probably thought I had slammed on the brakes. What really caught me out was the distance away that the bus was when the AEB activated, it must have been between 50 and 75 metres away!

Thankfully, the car has behaved itself ever since, and recently it had some sort of software update at the Dealer's, which has made it a joy to drive, and even the LKA is behaving itself, which before the update, it definitely wasn't.

Hi Ejaydee. Thankfully I've never had this experience after 6000 miles driving. I've booked my car in for it's first service next month. Do you, or anyone else out there know what update helped with LKA?

 

[Ejaydee]

Do you, or anyone else out there know what update helped with LKA?

No, sorry I do not know what the software update was, but as the version numbers shown on the infotainment did not change, the update must have been for one of the buried components. The car went in to have the front passenger door window winding gear sorted, because the motor had locked itself (thankfully closed) and when I took it in I was told that MG had an outstanding update to do. I have no info what it was, but the car is now even more pleasurable to drive ?.

 

[fshuk1]

I have had the AEB come on once, but in the car's defence, there was a double decker bus on my side of the road which was overtaking some parked traffic. However, the emergency braking caught me by surprise, as I was still rolling forward at 15 to 20 mph and was brought to an abrupt standstill.

I guess the car's systems thought the bus was going to plough into us, although it was obvious to me (as a human ?) what the bus was doing and was no threat.

As you say, the emergency braking process is rather scary, and bus driver looked at me rather quizzically as he pulled back into his lane and passed me, because he probably thought I had slammed on the brakes. What really caught me out was the distance away that the bus was when the AEB activated, it must have been between 50 and 75 metres away!

Thankfully, the car has behaved itself ever since, and recently it had some sort of software update at the Dealer's, which has made it a joy to drive, and even the LKA is behaving itself, which before the update, it definitely wasn't.

The car is sensitive to just rolling, it can only think if something is pressed. Cover the brake and it will be happy.

Also use you indicator when you are doing, shall we say a quick maneuver. All cars are like this. They can only think using the car's signals. So give the car the signal.

 

[Rolfe]

I merged this with earlier threads on the same topic, to keep all the advice and information together.

 

[Greatscott2000]

Hi guys,
Just registered with this forum. Our company has an MG ZS 2022 model which is used by various employees for supply runs. Yesterday, our mechanic was on a trip when the EV's brakes locked up taking the car from 60 to 0kph in a second (emergency braking?) He reported no apparent reason for the auto-braking and sustained soft-tissue injuries to his legs from the incident (he is a tall-bloke).
Contacting the MG service dept with our concerns drew no interest from them. Vehicle had been serviced 2-weeks prior.
Is there a known sudden braking issues with the ZS model as per the above? Car has been tagged out-of-service until resolved.

 

[Ian Key]

Hi guys,
Just registered with this forum. Our company has an MG ZS 2022 model which is used by various employees for supply runs. Yesterday, our mechanic was on a trip when the EV's brakes locked up taking the car from 60 to 0kph in a second (emergency braking?) He reported no apparent reason for the auto-braking and sustained soft-tissue injuries to his legs from the incident (he is a tall-bloke).
Contacting the MG service dept with our concerns drew no interest from them. Vehicle had been serviced 2-weeks prior.
Is there a known sudden braking issues with the ZS model as per the above? Car has been tagged out-of-service until resolved.

You might be better asking on the MG ZS forum.

MG ZS EV Forum

Discussions and information about the original MG ZS EV and the refreshed SE, SE Long Range, Trophy and Trophy Long Range SUV electric cars from MG

www.mgevs.com

 

[spoton]

So I've read about this but it's never happened to me/my car until Monday this week.

I'd just got off the motorway. I had my daughters in the car with me and went to pick up my son after school. As I left the car park (speed around 20-30 mph). Without warning the emergency brake came on. We were jolted. My daughter thought I'd hit something. There was nothing in front of me and luckily, no one behind me. It was really scary and the fact I'd only just got off the motorway was a terrifying thought if it had happened then.

I've booked it into the MG garage but first date is 15 April! I now have to manually turn off AEB before every drive.

I was wondering how many of you have experienced this and if it was taken to the garage has it happened since?

Please read back to my comments at #135 and#138