The arguments for EVs over Hydrogen fuelled cars

[Skippy]

Hydrogen reality right now. In California where hydrogen is ‘popular’ (massive incentives).

 

[Rolfe]

I suppose one could say, these are early adopters, and surely the fuel supply will get better until it's as easy as filling up with petrol is today. But then this is hydrogen, so will it? Was it ever this bad in the early days of EVs?

I would imagine not, because EVs can do one thing hydrogen cars will never be able to do and that is charge at home. If every single public chargepoint went down tomorrow a lot of people would be seriously inconvenienced for sure, but EVs would go right on running and a lot of people might not even notice.

Electricity is everywhere and we have things that will charge on a 13A plug if necessary. There are private wall-boxes all over the place whose owners would surely help out if there was a sudden massive outage of public chargepoints. And anyway, there is not going to be a sudden massive outage of public chargepoints, because, well, electricity is everywhere.

I don't know what other applications for hydrogen as fuel there might be, but I can't see this game ever winning out over one where you can charge your car at your own home while you sleep. I think they're trying to launch VHS tape five years after DVDs already got going.

Looks pretty expensive too. Where are the incentives?

 

[johnb80]

Interesting short video / news story about Hydrogen in aircraft and jet engines.

 

[CarlThom]

Er.... Not the whole story. The tank farm near Heathrow is fed by pipelines from one or two refineries (can't recall which ones - I've been asleep several times since I had dealings with the project but I think Stanlow was involved).
Fuel is then distributed to the aircraft stands via a pipework and hydrant system, which is why you don't see endless fuel tankers on the apron.

I found all this out when I got involved many years ago. The Heathrow Hydrant Company wanted to upgrade their control systems and metering (needed bloody accurate and repeatable meters for pressure too. As well as needing fiscal accuracy flow metering, they tested for leaks by shutting in sections of pipeline and watching for pressure drops).

We quoted for the project but didn't get it, unfortunately, as it had looked like a fun one.

The whole enterprise was divvied up with one company running the tankage, another the pipeline's and another the hydrants, iirc. All designed so the money went round and round too fast for the tax man to siphon off very much.

Correct. Stanlow at Ellesmere Port is a terminal for the pipelines to most major airports. Originally set up in WW2 to enable fuel for RAF stations to be delivered quickly without need for road tankers.

 

[Fogey]

Air transport is the most problematic area when it comes to sustainable energy sources, as this thread has identified.

An obvious solution would seem, at first glance, to be use of biofuel in existing engines. However, this would need about 1/3 of the World's landmass to be given over to its production. (One of the many reasons for banishing biofuels from all other usage.)

Maybe there needs to be a concerted effort to develop much more efficient methods of production. Couple this to a major reduction in the more frivolous use of air transport worldwide (by means of inherent financial disincentives), and this solution may have legs.

 

[Vipar]

Not absolutely true, BAE have an aircraft Zephyr S its solar powered and has been airborne for 26 days! Rolls Royce ACCEL is a 300mph, 200 mile range aircraft. Bet the pilot is busting for a wee ?

 

[johnb80]

Not absolutely true, BAE have an aircraft Zephyr S its solar powered and has been airborne for 26 days! Rolls Royce ACCEL is a 300mph, 200 mile range aircraft. Bet the pilot is busting for a wee ?

Tut, tut..... you havent been paying attention, see post #37