What would make public charging better for you..?

[tsedge]

One point is arriving there in an absolute deluge - you'll get drenched in less than a minute.
Another is people who are driving dressed to go to an event or a meeting where they want to be presentable, not damp and windswept with muddy shoes.
Another which probably isn't relevant to this location but is to many others, is heavy snow.

That's what coats and brollies are for! What's snow?! ?

I get that a canopy is better, I'm making the point that with the right setup it is less important than for a petrol station because there is no need to stand by your car filling it up.

If I had to choose between ubiquitous chargers everywhere and significantly fewer but with canopies, I'd choose the former.

 

[Rolfe]

I think that's a false dichotomy. Nobody is offering the choice between lots of rainswept charging stations and a few civilised places with shelter. Nobody is saying that if they erect a canopy over charging site A they won't be able to install charging site B.

You might be fine with opening your car door into a downpour and juggling heavy charging cable, phone (struggling to see the screen for raindrops before it dies as a result of water ingress) and an umbrella, but a lot of people aren't. You may be able to rely on plugging in and walking away within seconds, but sometimes - particularly for inexperienced drivers - it can take a while. Reading the charger screen, trying to see what it says, charge hasn't started, start again, can't get this bloody thing to work. All the while with the rain pouring sideways.

And look at the pictures from Chicago where they had that situation in the snow, with a couple of supercharger sites being blocked by people with cold batteries. The snow was half way up the damn chargers.

That's extreme, we're not going to see that here (unless the North Atlantic Conveyor stops, in which case all bets are off) but a foot or so of snow does happen in Scotland and the north of England. A canopy would hardly have mitigated the cold, but it would have allowed drivers to get to the chargers without snowshoes and protected the chargers themselves from being iced up - which seems to have been part of the problem. Given the weather that can affect Chicago, one wonders what the charger operators are even thinking of. I'll bet the petrol stations in the city have shelter and the petrol pumps aren't half-buried in a snowdrift.

The issue as I see it is that the more new charging sites are constructed with no shelter, the more it is normalised. This needs to be an issue that's brought up time and time again until the people planning it all start to think about disabled drivers, drivers dressed up to go to a party or an important business meeting, and elderly drivers. We shouldn't have to accept worse conditions than are provided to ICE car drivers as a matter of course.

 

[tsedge]

We disagree - I think it is faster to get new sites without canopies due to costs and planning issues. GridServe-style all singing and dancing canopied centres will take a decade or more to reach deep into the regions. Better to retrofit the other facilities.

But I'll say no more on this, I have no interest in a long argument.

 

[Rolfe]

Retrofitting canopies? I'll believe it when I see it happen.

The Osprey site mentioned above is an unusual situation where we have been clearly informed that planning permission for a site including canopies would have been very problematic, but the company intends to try to get permission for a canopy later. Of course it's possible to design a canopy that isn't going to look out of place in a beauty spot, but at the moment planners are only imagining bright colours and neon lights and uncompromising shapes.

That argument is simply invalid for the vast majority of charging sites being installed, especially at motorway service stations. As well as a couple of show-case charging hubs, Gridserve is busy boasting about dozens of recent installations at service stations where no thought at all has been given to shelter and EV drivers have to get soaked mere yards from a petrol station which has decent shelter. It seems that this is their model going forward, despite the Braintree and Gatwick show houses.

It's not good enough.

 

[emmadragon]

It can be done, this is at our local garage, rebuilt last year from a completely ICE station to now include this. A condition of their (very long) planning permission for the rebuild was that they must install EV charging, which I believe is now the government guidance.
It took them a while to get switched on (around 2 months, as I recall), but there are 14 charge points here, a decent size shop and a bakery with a couple of seats, as well as the same number of petrol pumps as there were previously. I drive past this twice a day, and I have never, ever seen more than 5 EVs at a maximum here.

Edit: My apologies to the OP for continuing the somewhat derail of your question. This is in Leicestershire, so probably not along the route from Berkshire to Cornwall.

 

[Rolfe]

It can be done, this is at our local garage, rebuilt last year from a completely ICE station to now include this. A condition of their (very long) planning permission for the rebuild was that they must install EV charging, which I believe is now the government guidance.
It took them a while to get switched on (around 2 months, as I recall), but there are 14 charge points here, a decent size shop and a bakery with a couple of seats, as well as the same number of petrol pumps as there were previously. I drive past this twice a day, and I have never, ever seen more than 5 EVs at a maximum here.
View attachment 24182
Edit: My apologies to the OP for continuing the somewhat derail of your question. This is in Leicestershire, so probably not along the route from Berkshire to Cornwall.

Ooh, is that this? Desford Crossroads? (This is an image from Google Streetview.) So there are twice as many chargers as can be seen?

I looked at this for Boxing Day as there was a plan for me to drive from Halifax to Osbaston and back in a day, and I would have had to charge during the Osbaston visit. (Unfortunately no access to a home charger there, and a granny lead would have been too slow.) The visit was called off because reasons but it could happen this year. Good to know it's a reliable site.

I was thinking about this one as I was typing about the disappointing Gridserve policy. It shows that it's perfectly doable. It would of course be nice if one could get into the shop while remaining under cover, as petrol customers can, but baby steps...

Sorry, derail, I'll put myself on the naughty step.

 

[emmadragon]

Ooh, is that this? Desford Crossroads? (This is an image from Google Streetview.) So there are twice as many chargers as can be seen?

View attachment 24186

I looked at this for Boxing Day as there was a plan for me to drive from Halifax to Osbaston and back in a day, and I would have had to charge during the Osbaston visit. (Unfortunately no access to a home charger there, and a granny lead would have been too slow.) The visit was called off because reasons but it could happen this year. Good to know it's a reliable site.

I was thinking about this one as I was typing about the disappointing Gridserve policy. It shows that it's perfectly doable. It would of course be nice if one could get into the shop while remaining under cover, as petrol customers can, but baby steps...

Sorry, derail, I'll put myself on the naughty step.

Yes, that's the one. Each of those 7 charge points has two leads, and the spaces are a lot wider than they look. The route from the chargers to the shop actually has maybe 20 yards not under cover, but it's worth a dash for the excellent doughnut selection. If it's any consolation, you get wet walking from the ICE pumps too, there is a gap between the canopy and the shop overhang. I've been filling up there for over 20 years now.
I'd call it a very reliable site. I've never, ever seen the EV section full, and even the ICE, I've never queued for more than 5 minutes during rush hour.
Maybe this part of the conversation might be better in the 'how to make charging sites better?' thread?

 

[fnegroni]

Ooh, is that this? Desford Crossroads? (This is an image from Google Streetview.) So there are twice as many chargers as can be seen?

View attachment 24186

I looked at this for Boxing Day as there was a plan for me to drive from Halifax to Osbaston and back in a day, and I would have had to charge during the Osbaston visit. (Unfortunately no access to a home charger there, and a granny lead would have been too slow.) The visit was called off because reasons but it could happen this year. Good to know it's a reliable site.

I was thinking about this one as I was typing about the disappointing Gridserve policy. It shows that it's perfectly doable. It would of course be nice if one could get into the shop while remaining under cover, as petrol customers can, but baby steps...

Sorry, derail, I'll put myself on the naughty step.

That’s the one I stopped at during my Xmas travels to the Peak District. After the gridserve stations let me down.

 

[Rolfe]

Derail from the "trip to Cornwall" thread moved here, where it's appropriate.

 

[Rolfe]

Yes, that's the one. Each of those 7 charge points has two leads, and the spaces are a lot wider than they look.

But there's only one painted bay in front of each charger. Is one supposed to be psychic and park to one side, leaving enough room for someone else to come in alongside?

 

[WonkoTheSaneUK]

But there's only one painted bay in front of each charger. Is one supposed to be psychic and park to one side, leaving enough room for someone else to come in alongside?

No. One lead is CCS, the other is CHAdeMo for Nissan Leafs.

 

[emmadragon]

Ah, I didn't know that. We'll be using it for the first time on Saturday for EV, so I can report back after that, @Rolfe, if you want?

 

[Kithmo]

It can be done, this is at our local garage, rebuilt last year from a completely ICE station to now include this. A condition of their (very long) planning permission for the rebuild was that they must install EV charging, which I believe is now the government guidance.
It took them a while to get switched on (around 2 months, as I recall), but there are 14 charge points here, a decent size shop and a bakery with a couple of seats, as well as the same number of petrol pumps as there were previously. I drive past this twice a day, and I have never, ever seen more than 5 EVs at a maximum here.
View attachment 24182
Edit: My apologies to the OP for continuing the somewhat derail of your question. This is in Leicestershire, so probably not along the route from Berkshire to Cornwall.

Perfect, every filling station should be like this.

 

[Rolfe]

No. One lead is CCS, the other is CHAdeMo for Nissan Leafs.

So there are actually just seven chargers, but each one can take either a CCS or a CHAdeMO car? That's what I thought.

 

[Rolfe]

Ah, I didn't know that. We'll be using it for the first time on Saturday for EV, so I can report back after that, @Rolfe, if you want?

Indeed, it would be useful. My friend's brother lives in Osbaston, just six miles from there, and we usually visit on Boxing Day while I'm staying with her for Christmas. I volunteered to drive, but realised I would have to charge while in Osbaston. My plan was to drop friend and husband off, go to that garage while they went for a walk or drank sherry or something, charge up to over 80%, then go back for the meal and party games, letting the car get to 100% on the granny charger during that time.

It's quite a tight schedule, so info on how busy it seems to be (at noon on Boxing Day!) and how fast it can charge would be handy.

 

[WonkoTheSaneUK]

So there are actually just seven chargers, but each one can take either a CCS or a CHAdeMO car? That's what I thought.

Correct.
Fun fact - CHAdeMO comes from "O cha demo ikaga desu ka?", which is Japanese for "Fancy a cuppa?"

 

[Rolfe]

I heard that! (I originally read it as "CHArge DE MOtor"!)

 

[Rolfe]

Quit the silly pre-authorisation charges. The EB charging one near me wants to authorise £260 before you start. I know it doesn't come out of your bank until you've finished but the bank does take it off your balance straight away.
Update: this charger has been vandalised, the DC cables cut off and stolen.

Serves them right.

 

[WonkoTheSaneUK]

I heard that! (I originally read it as "CHArge DE MOtor"!)

Close!
The organisation's official phrase is CHArge DE MOve, but it stems from the Japanese phrase I posted earlier

 

[Rolfe]

Now that bit I didn't know.