Solar + Zappi + MG4 = ?

[Ian Key]

The pension pot argument kinda makes sense, but don’t wait for the tech to evolve as you’ll always be 2 years away from making the leap. The efficiency of batteries, solar and heat pumps make sense now, yea they will be better in 5 years but that’ll be 5 years of paying for fossil fuel premium priced electricity and gas. It’ll be even better in 10 years, or 20 years! Get the work done before the boiler packs up.
Hope that helps the argument with yourself.

I agree with your argument but in my mind I'd like to get it done all at once so it all integrates and I'm not financially able to do so at the moment.

 

[NeilF]

I’ve finally been able to convince my wife that the initial outlay for a Zappi, solar PV and battery storage installation has been worth it. I showed her our solar being diverted to the car (instead of British Gas) via the Zappi app and I got a big smile and thumbs up, which coming from my wife is a big win. ?

Feels great to be charging the MG4 with solar energy. 3kWh is not too shabby for Fife. View attachment 17059View attachment 17060

We are so excited to get our Zappi and Libbi installed in May. The idea that you can specify every last drop of solar to go to the car, rather than spill back to the grid is amazing. We are trying to do that manually now by charging during the day when it's sunny, but automating this is genius from MyEngeri. Plus with overnight electric 90% of our home usage will be solar or cheap overnight electric. Here's to the future of cheap motoring!

 

[RichDragon]

Very interesting thread. I had a 7.1 Kw solar system installed back in late 2021 and the Tesla 2 battery is just about to be installed. I also have a Trophy MG4 and always like it to be charged to maximum 100%. The battery balancing occurs randomly about 1 in 5 charges. I had to join British Gas when I moved to this new home and the DNO limits the amount of solar power we are allowed to generate, think it's (inverter) is throttled back to around 5kw. I keep an eye on Octopus tariffs but as I am retired the car is usually connected to my Zappi 2 and sunshine ??? powers the battery, even though it still takes.from the mains electricity partly even on eco ++ setting. If you've got any spare cash I would definitely recommend installing renewables. I explained to the family it's like buying your electricity in advance and then the war started and I feel for anyone paying "normal leccie bills". I only use the gas boiler when family calls as I use various electric fires connected to smart plugs and my favourite is the electric blanket. Oops sorry us oldies like to prattle on!

 

[FiferMG4]

Since going onto FLUX at the beginning of April we've only used mains power during the cheapest period (2am - 5am) and the rest of the time it's been solar and/or batteries. So as long as we get a few hours of sun our bills are going to be very cheap (we're all electric)

Thanks for your detailed explanation of your setup, Oakland. It sounds like Octopus Flux is a good option for those with a solar/battery system. I’m not wholly electric yet as our gas boiler is only five years old and I’m hoping it’s still got a lot of life left in it. It’s pretty efficient. But out of curiosity, I’ve been looking at infrared heating panels, thermal batteries and electric boilers. Still, apart from central heating and the hot water, we’re slowly moving towards a fully electric, renewable future.

It’s great that you can keep your bills low!

You have the same set up as I do - works well - I leave the car plugged in all the time and it absorbs all surplus energy (along with my immersion heater). I have an inverter from GivEnergy which shows up as an unknown device - I prefer your approach - but I guess you have a myenergi invertor too?

I have a GivEnergy inverter and battery, but I went into the Zappi advanced settings and made sure that when in eco + mode the Zappi consumes the solar generation mainly. There is a CT clamp on the solar side of things connected to the Harvi, so the Zappi can detect solar generation. It can’t see the battery through the Harvi though, as I didn’t have a CT clamp put in for that. When in eco mode it will draw from the battery depending how much solar there is.

Are you able to charge your storage batteries directly from the grid? I have a hybrid invertor which I don't think allows that - although there is a continual very low flow back in - maybe a setting somewhere that needs to be tweaked? I like your approach.

Footnote: I found an option on the Givenergy app to enable the battery to charge either Solar only or Solar plus Grid. Not sure if this would enable me to charge it at a cheap night rate unless I can find a scheduling option

If you change the charge mode to solar + grid you’ll see the timed charge settings for your battery.

 

[WilkoWanderer]

Falkirk here also with a zappi. But with 5kw solar system.

What I always find amazing is how much power can get here in Scotland. If this is what you can get up here don't know why don't get more people with solar down south.

EV + solar is probably best thing ever bought.

Also just to help others that also have Growatt Inverter. To charge car you want the harvi CT clamp after the battery, so when on 'load first' it doesn't drain the house battery. When you want to charge the battery from grid (aka cheap night tarrif) have it run 'battery first ' mode.

 

[FiferMG4]

We are so excited to get our Zappi and Libbi installed in May. The idea that you can specify every last drop of solar to go to the car, rather than spill back to the grid is amazing. We are trying to do that manually now by charging during the day when it's sunny, but automating this is genius from MyEngeri. Plus with overnight electric 90% of our home usage will be solar or cheap overnight electric. Here's to the future of cheap motoring!

I think it’ll be even easier for you as you’ll be using compatible MyEnergi products, whereas I have the MyEnergi Zappi & Harvi, but the GivEnergy inverter and battery. But to be honest, I’m not having any issues now that I’ve figured out all the settings.

Yes, it’s a very exciting time to be living in with all this technology at our fingertips. I never thought solar would be viable this far North, but apart from maybe the three darkest months of the year, we’ll basically be consuming solar.

Very interesting thread. I had a 7.1 Kw solar system installed back in late 2021 and the Tesla 2 battery is just about to be installed. I also have a Trophy MG4 and always like it to be charged to maximum 100%. The battery balancing occurs randomly about 1 in 5 charges. I had to join British Gas when I moved to this new home and the DNO limits the amount of solar power we are allowed to generate, think it's (inverter) is throttled back to around 5kw. I keep an eye on Octopus tariffs but as I am retired the car is usually connected to my Zappi 2 and sunshine ??? powers the battery, even though it still takes.from the mains electricity partly even on eco ++ setting. If you've got any spare cash I would definitely recommend installing renewables. I explained to the family it's like buying your electricity in advance and then the war started and I feel for anyone paying "normal leccie bills". I only use the gas boiler when family calls as I use various electric fires connected to smart plugs and my favourite is the electric blanket. Oops sorry us oldies like to prattle on!

That’s the beauty of being retired as you can maximize your consumption of solar, by having your appliances on during the day and charging your car. I come back from work at around 5pm and if it‘s looking sunny I’ll charge the car in eco + mode, though on Friday I did that and then switched on the oven to heat up a pizza, forgetting the Zappi was on. The battery then kicked in, but as my inverter is limited to 3.6kW I had to start drawing from the grid to cook the pizza. ? Next time, it’ll be pizza first then Zappi.

Falkirk here also with a zappi. But with 5kw solar system.

What I always find amazing is how much power can get here in Scotland. If this is what you can get up here don't know why don't get more people with solar down south.

EV + solar is probably best thing ever bought.

Yeah same here, I’m thinking February to October we should be fine with our long days. It does help that solar panels are getting more and more efficient. Just imagine when panels are rated at a kilowatt each!

 

[JimFitz]

I’ve finally been able to convince my wife that the initial outlay for a Zappi, solar PV and battery storage installation has been worth it. I showed her our solar being diverted to the car (instead of British Gas) via the Zappi app and I got a big smile and thumbs up, which coming from my wife is a big win. ?

Feels great to be charging the MG4 with solar energy. 3kWh is not too shabby for Fife. View attachment 17059View attachment 17060

Charging the MG from the solar on the roof of the house certainly a joy! And one which my wife shares. Apart from all the other benefits, battery and solar should pay itself off in under 5 years.

I am very interested to understand the process of using the car battery to charge the house battery because we export to the grid nearly 2x what we consume but run out of power on long winter nights. Does anyone know hos that works?

 

[dawson2099]

I don't think the technology is there yet to have the car power the house - modifications to the charger to allow 2-way transmission are needed - it will come I'm sure. You could of course use the V2L cable to power specific devices from the car or indeed the battery (if you have an outgoing socket attached to it). I'm puzzling through a strategy to minimise imports and maximise internal usage - I'm on Octopus who have some very interesting options. I'm thinking along the lines of ensuring my 8Kw battery is full before the morning peak demand - top up between 2am-5am with Octopus Agile and possibly again before the evening peak (in case Solar has not charged it up). I have a Zappi charger and EDDI diverter (to heat the immersion) to soak up any surplus solar (as I leave the car plugged in whenever at home). Longer range thoughts include a bigger battery and maybe a Heat Pump instead of a gas boiler - but the cost of installation and disruption is a put off.

 

[FiferMG4]

Charging the MG from the solar on the roof of the house certainly a joy! And one which my wife shares. Apart from all the other benefits, battery and solar should pay itself off in under 5 years.

I am very interested to understand the process of using the car battery to charge the house battery because we export to the grid nearly 2x what we consume but run out of power on long winter nights. Does anyone know hos that works?

I think at present the capability of the MG4 to power the house is not possible. You can power a smaller plugged in device such as a camping kettle via the V2L cable as Dawson has said above, but you can’t actually run your house off the car’s battery. It would be interesting in future to have this ability, especially during a short powercut.

I don't think the technology is there yet to have the car power the house - modifications to the charger to allow 2-way transmission are needed - it will come I'm sure. You could of course use the V2L cable to power specific devices from the car or indeed the battery (if you have an outgoing socket attached to it). I'm puzzling through a strategy to minimise imports and maximise internal usage - I'm on Octopus who have some very interesting options. I'm thinking along the lines of ensuring my 8Kw battery is full before the morning peak demand - top up between 2am-5am with Octopus Agile and possibly again before the evening peak (in case Solar has not charged it up). I have a Zappi charger and EDDI diverter (to heat the immersion) to soak up any surplus solar (as I leave the car plugged in whenever at home). Longer range thoughts include a bigger battery and maybe a Heat Pump instead of a gas boiler - but the cost of installation and disruption is a put off.

Have you looked into the new Octopus Flux tariff designed for homes with solar and battery systems? It looks easier to use than the Agile tariff.

 

[dawson2099]

I think at present the capability of the MG4 to power the house is not possible. You can power a smaller plugged in device such as a camping kettle via the V2L cable as Dawson has said above, but you can’t actually run your house off the car’s battery. It would be interesting in future to have this ability, especially during a short powercut.


Have you looked into the new Octopus Flux tariff designed for homes with solar and battery systems? It looks easier to use than the Agile tariff.

I'll take a look - just getting familiar with the various tariff options. If I understand correctly FLUX is electric only (cheap rate, day rate and peak rate) and rates are flexible. Day rate very similar to the regular flexible rate but the peak rate is much higher. Requires a solar installation and has variable export prices per period. AGILE prices change every 30 minutes and are electric only , Similar peak and off-peak pricing periods but driven by the wholesale market, so not too predictable. TRACKER tariff changes daily and covers gas and/or electric based on day ahead pricing - 6 month waiting list so must be good? I read horror stories from 2021 of people paying much more on the tracker than flexible but that seems to have reversed now.

So long story short, I think I'll try FLUX for a while, programming my immersion heater and battery top up for the off-peak period and maybe even the car during a period of no sunshine. Make any sense??

 

[FiferMG4]

So long story short, I think I'll try FLUX for a while, programming my immersion heater and battery top up for the off-peak period and maybe even the car during a period of no sunshine. Make any sense??

Yup, that makes a lot of sense and is what I would do, especially during the Winter months.

 

[mannydhanoa]

I've also recently done the full solar shift: Panels + Battery + EV (MG4) and it's been worth the switch. I read for your EV battery efficiency, it's best to charge it up to 80% unless you need to go long distance, but with so much solar going back to the grid for peanuts, would you just charge it to 100% anyway?

 

[fshuk1]

My trouble is that I'm arguing with myself about solar,and a home battery or just a home battery or leave it as the technology improves. Unfortunately I'm loosing...?

Let me convince you so you could convince yourself . Standard electricty price now is around 35ppkwh. If you buy enough batteries to run your house during the day, you could switch to octopus intelligent. So you charge your batteries+car+diswasher+etc at 7.5ppkwh. During the day you run your house from your batteries. You should be able to convert 90%-95% of you electricity cost from 35 to 7.5p. depending on how much electricity you use in a year you will get your money back between 3-5 years !!!! not Shabby. In the meantime your cost of driving is around 2p per mile

Now the question is, are Solar panels worth it? The best you can do is reduce your 7.5ppkwh to zero. Your payback is much longer I would suggest. Do the batteries. But remember to see what is the peak power you need during the day. You may need two inverters.

 

[FiferMG4]

I read for your EV battery efficiency, it's best to charge it up to 80% unless you need to go long distance, but with so much solar going back to the grid for peanuts, would you just charge it to 100% anyway?

That’s a very good point and I’m not sure. Like you, I‘m seeing a lot of excess solar being exported to the grid. One way I’m trying to get round this is by charging the car from a combination of solar and battery after I get back from work. The Zappi in eco mode limits any draw from the grid and will use whatever solar or battery is available. Over a few hours my battery can go down by 50%, so then charge up the following day, thus limiting how much solar goes to the grid.

 

[Pianoman]

That’s a nice argument to have! ?The panels (Trina Vertex S) I’ve had installed are rated at 425 watts with an efficiency of 20.8%. It’s a lovely sunny day and I’m getting over 4kW, so as my 9.5Kw GivEnergy battery has already been filled to 100%, I thought, “Hold on a minute. I’ve got a massive storage battery in the form of the 64kW MG4!”, so I’ve connected it to the Zappi in its Eco++ mode which maximizes solar charging as opposed to grid charging. I would say if you didn’t have an electric car then just having a home battery and charging it on cheaper off peak electricity would be the way to go.

But having the MG4, you’ve essentially got a huge home battery on your driveway which can store plenty of excess solar. When I thought about all this a year ago, having watched so many Youtube videos on electric cars, home chargers, solar panels, inverters and batteries, I had one goal in mind, to be able to power the house and car using as little grid import as possible, thus insulating myself from volatile petrol and gas/electricity prices. I feel I’ve gone quite a long way in achieving that now.

Ofcourse, everyone’s circumstances are different, but if you’re able to Ian, I’d go for a solar and battery storage system.

Absolutely agree!

I took early retirement a couple of years ago and spent some of my inheritance on the MG4 so now I'm veering towards leaving it for another 2.5 years until I reach 66 and can maximise my pension pots.
Hopefully the technology will have improved and be easier to integrate as I'd be looking at solar, battery and some form of heat pump as my central heating is on it's last legs.
But nothing is written in stone and I'm just starting on the whole EV solar journey.

I would advise you to do it now! We have and had the gas meter removed so we are all in! Not had any bills for the last 7 days in a row so far!

I’ve finally been able to convince my wife that the initial outlay for a Zappi, solar PV and battery storage installation has been worth it. I showed her our solar being diverted to the car (instead of British Gas) via the Zappi app and I got a big smile and thumbs up, which coming from my wife is a big win. ?

Feels great to be charging the MG4 with solar energy. 3kWh is not too shabby for Fife. View attachment 17059View attachment 17060

It sure does feel great! I automatically plug the MG4 in when on the drive and the zappi is set to 100% eco. After filling our 16kw house batteries it sends excess to the car...today we only got 4 miles but it varies dramatically and all for free! (It's only 4 miles to our asda) ?

I know someone I work with is with octopus and they get 15p per unit exported back to the grid, they don't have an EV so no octopus go, but covers their standing charge costs.

As do think it's criminal the minimal amount they recompense people for generating at home

I don't think it's worth worrying about or the hassle to export back to the grid. I just put a little effort into using the power that my solar generates as we save so much anyway

 

[JimFitz]

I think at present the capability of the MG4 to power the house is not possible. You can power a smaller plugged in device such as a camping kettle via the V2L cable as Dawson has said above, but you can’t actually run your house off the car’s battery. It would be interesting in future to have this ability, especially during a short powercut.


Have you looked into the new Octopus Flux tariff designed for homes with solar and battery systems? It looks easier to use than the Agile tariff.

Thank your for the various replies. There is a lot to learn! I am in Sydney so dealing with different suppliers.

I found this article interesting:

Batteries on wheels: California to mandate bidirectional charging on EVs from 2027

leads me to believe that it will take govt push to make it happen. California leading the way but I have written to my local member urging her to push the Oz govt to follow suit

 

[FiferMG4]

Thank your for the various replies. There is a lot to learn! I am in Sydney so dealing with different suppliers.

I found this article interesting:

Batteries on wheels: California to mandate bidirectional charging on EVs from 2027

leads me to believe that it will take govt push to make it happen. California leading the way but I have written to my local member urging her to push the Oz govt to follow suit

It’s interesting that you would post this article as I just heard about this recently. Having such a capability would be extremely handy, though I’d still want a smaller home battery for powering the house when at work or away on holiday.

 

[scooby]

This thread is great. I have solar and givenergy inverter and zappi. Twice now when I have set zappi to eco++ it has charged well with excess solar during the day, but at midnight it switches to charging from the grid until full. Any ideas what I am getting wrong there, as would love to leave the car plugged in for it to get excess solar and forget about it.

 

[dawson2099]

I had this issue. Zappi has default schedule to charge at midnight. Turn the scheduled charge off.

 

[scooby]

I had this issue. Zappi has default schedule to charge at midnight. Turn the scheduled charge off.

Thanks. Hadn't noticed that!