BMS Versions Australia

[Peter WA]

After a bit of a wait mine and a friend's ZS EV are ready to be delivered by a dealer in Victoria tomorrow. Ordered one month apart, they became available at the same time. Both have a production date of November 1st 2020, compliance plate date Feb / 2021.

Today we tried to make sure that all the software updates are applied before delivery. To our surprise we were told: no update to the BMS.

When we questioned that we got forwarded an email from MG Australia that made it sound like our situation is totally different to overseas. They claim that the update has recently been pulled, and customers should stay on the old software so they don't experience reduced range. Only a handful of cars are supposedly affected by the dud BMS software in Australia.

My gut instinct tells me: that statement was true a while ago, all the cars delivered in 2020 would have been produced well before the dud BMS version was released. Only a few would have received updates to the dud BMS, before it was pulled.

But our cars, with a production date 1 Nov 2020, what are they odds they are not affected? What software version did the factory install?

The dealer tried to check with the laptop connected to the OBD2 port, but we're not sure they even found the correct screen. The number they came up with is "11011179". That doesn't look anything like the BMS versions that were mentioned elsewhere in the forums here.

Short of going down the ODB2 or OVMS route, or waiting to see whether battery voltage degrades over time, is there any way of knowing which BMS version we actually have, or at least ruling out it's the dud one?

 

[2of3]

If your voltage is around 455 at a full charge, then you most likely don't have the bad November /December 2020 update and thus don't really "need" the January 2021 fix.

 

[Peter WA]

If your voltage is around 455 at a full charge, then you most likely don't have the bad November /December 2020 update and thus don't really "need" the January 2021 fix.

My understanding is that the problem manifests over time, increasing with each charge cycle. I'd expect the brand new car would show 455, even if it had the bad BMS.

How long till one notices a significant difference? Which voltage would be cause for concern?

 

[soupkitchen]

I’ve also got mine coming next week here in Melbourne. My guess would be the week that the cars are in the country being prepped for delivery they do any final software upgrades needed wouldn’t they?

 

[Peter WA]

I’ve also got mine coming next week here in Melbourne. My guess would be the week that the cars are in the country being prepped for delivery they do any final software upgrades needed wouldn’t they?

Possible, but not likely. I was told it would be done by the dealer before they deliver it to me.

Just curious: When did you order and what date were you given at that time?

Ours were delayed, not only because of the lockdown, but also some MG internal reasons.

 

[soupkitchen]

Possible, but not likely. I was told it would be done by the dealer before they deliver it to me.

Just curious: When did you order and what date were you given at that time?

Ours were delayed, not only because of the lockdown, but also some MG internal reasons.

I ordered around the 10th of feb and was initially told end of March early April, then a week later they revised it.

 

[Peter WA]

The cars have actually been in in Melbourne since early January. We found a sticker from the shipping company on mine, the ship it came on is called "Pleiades Spirit", it last left Melbourne on January 10th.

We got a bit impatient about the delays and threatened to cancel. Maybe someone else actually cancelled, that would explain how you got yours so quickly. Some win, some lose. Let's hope we're all happy owners of good cars for a long time time to come!

 

[soupkitchen]

I’m sure it’s something like that as the dealer explained the shipping to me. I’m lucky that I was willing to wait as long as it took, so long as a newer model wasn’t released while I was still waiting!

 

[Gomev]

My understanding is that the problem manifests over time, increasing with each charge cycle. I'd expect the brand new car would show 455, even if it had the bad BMS.

How long till one notices a significant difference? Which voltage would be cause for concern?

I noticed from quite early on, had done less than 300 miles and voltage had dropped to below 450. Majority of my charging at that time had been on rapid (50kWh) chargers as we have a free one at the bottom of our road.

 

[JodyS21]

I noticed from quite early on, had done less than 300 miles and voltage had dropped to below 450. Majority of my charging at that time had been on rapid (50kWh) chargers as we have a free one at the bottom of our road.

Purely a guess.

If dealer charged car to 455v with previous BMS, Latest Jan BMS then applied.
Car would maybe when handed over to the customer still show 455v, but as soon as they've then used it and charge it up it won't go above 450v (the new limit).

I would imagine, if a new car handed over has the latest 15/1 BMS, that's the only way you could ever see 455v - briefly once at hand over.

 

[Peter WA]

I would imagine, if a new car handed over has the latest 15/1 BMS, that's the only way you could ever see 455v - briefly once at hand over.

The reason I started this thread is that no new car delivered in Australia at the moment gets the latest BMS. MG Australia told dealers not to do any BMS updates and leave them at factory version.

Rationale, I believe to have read between the lines: while the January BMS fixes the issues caused by the dodgy version, it probably was created in rush, in order to fix the issue. A more permanent new version is probably still in the making, or getting tested internally. MG Australia prefers to keep people on an old working version, rather than doing very frequent updates.

I get it that for any cars delivered in 2020 that probably is a safe approach. I'm just not sure it still is, for cars getting delivered now, did MG actually connected all the dots?

With a new car right now we get whatever came from the factory. With a production date of Nov 1st it could still be the slightly buggy but mostly ok early October version, or it could be the dodgy one from late October that many people in the UK got updated to throughout November.

If we've got the dodgy one I'd rather know sooner than later.

 

[JodyS21]

The reason I started this thread is that no new car delivered in Australia at the moment gets the latest BMS. MG Australia told dealers not to do any BMS updates and leave them at factory version.

Rationale, I believe to have read between the lines: while the January BMS fixes the issues caused by the dodgy version, it probably was created in rush, in order to fix the issue. A more permanent new version is probably still in the making, or getting tested internally. MG Australia prefers to keep people on an old working version, rather than doing very frequent updates.

I get it that for any cars delivered in 2020 that probably is a safe approach. I'm just not sure it still is, for cars getting delivered now, did MG actually connected all the dots?

With a new car right now we get whatever came from the factory. With a production date of Nov 1st it could still be the slightly buggy but mostly ok early October version, or it could be the dodgy one from late October that many people in the UK got updated to throughout November.

If we've got the dodgy one I'd rather know sooner than later.

Yes you would want to know, anyone that has a car with the very dodgy october BMS, needs it updated ASAP by MG.

Have a look at the OBD2 thread that's being discussed, it looks like a very cheap way of identifying the version of the BMS that you have. We'll have it worked out very soon what version number relates to which.

 

[Cocijo]

You would hope that MG would know what cars were shipped and what version of software they are running - and advise their dealerships accordingly. Without a centralised update function or over the air updates it is normally the case that updates are managed via the dealer network - this does seem to be where all the inconsistencies occur. You would also hope that if this is the case no cars will slip through now that are running the software that has caused the range and balancing issues. My local understanding is all cars out of the factory after the January 2021 update will be shipped with the latest (450v) update. Although, of course as you say this can all change.

 

[Peter WA]

You would hope that MG would know what cars were shipped and what version of software they are running - and advise their dealerships accordingly.

Yes, in an ideal world that would be the case. But the learning curve is steep, for dealers and for the local MG staff. Australia only got the EV in late 2020, I believe first deliveries were in October.

Not everything is running smoothly yet. Dealers are rather clueless. Sales reps vary, some make an effort to learn and listen from customers who often are better informed than them, others just brush suggestions off.

As to MG: it appears they try to avoid direct contact with customers at all costs and leave it to dealers. That means it is hard to know where i.e. delivery holdups come from.

All up it is hard to trust them in this environment, where useful information almost exclusively comes from other users and not from MG or a dealer.

 

[2of3]

I don't know really, but my understanding is that the buggy BMS software was an after market update not a factory default. If that is the case, it would stand to reason that even cars built in December 2020 would not have buggy software out of the factory.

 

[JodyS21]

I don't know really, but my understanding is that the buggy BMS software was an after market update not a factory default. If that is the case, it would stand to reason that even cars built in December 2020 would not have buggy software out of the factory.

I don't think that is correct. If it came out of the factory from October-ish to December-ish, I'm pretty sure it would've come with the latest software preinstalled which would've been the problematic version.
I don't know what they'd have installed on the car between, when they knew there was a problem with it and the fix (Dec-Jan). I guess the version from July, although that wasn't great!

 

[Peter WA]

If your voltage is around 455 at a full charge, then you most likely don't have the bad November /December 2020 update and thus don't really "need" the January 2021 fix.

After the first trip of 63km we charged with the supplied 10A charger (actually 8A).

Voltage when it stopped was 451V, air temperature close to a pleasant 25.

For a while power draw for the charger was 322W, which would indicate balancing. It did not equalise for long. We didn't check constantly, but less than 1 hour is the best estimate.

It also appears the energy used for the trip was not fully replaced during the charging session. Car reported 62.8 km, 16.6 kWh/100km, that works out to 10.42 kWh used. Less than 10 kWh was supplied to/by the charger. Even without accounting for charging losses we're more than 0.6 kWh short.

Is that enough evidence to be sure we have the dud BMS?

 

[JodyS21]

After the first trip of 63km we charged with the supplied 10A charger (actually 8A).

Voltage when it stopped was 451V, air temperature close to a pleasant 25.

For a while power draw for the charger was 322W, which would indicate balancing. It did not equalise for long. We didn't check constantly, but less than 1 hour is the best estimate.

Is that enough evidence to be sure we have the dud BMS?

Yes.
If after a definite full charge & balance on supplied 10A granny lead, your voltage shown is 451v (with everything off/under no load), then you are starting to get the problem and it'll only get worse.
You need together the new BMS as soon as possible.

 

[Peter WA]

Yes.
If after a definite full charge & balance on supplied 10A granny lead, your voltage shown is 451v (with everything off/under no load), then you are starting to get the problem and it'll only get worse.
You need together the new BMS as soon as possible.

Thanks

I love your signature line.

I'll do a major road-trip in the car, starting tomorrow. Let's hope the dealer can get MG to authorise the update. That's the issue. Dealer is willing, MG Australia says "No".

That road trip will get publicity either way. MG's choice if it is positive or a disaster for them. Crossing the Nullarbor Perhaps mentioning this fact that they don't yet know speeds decisions up.

Edit: there are a couple of other dealers along the way, one on Wednesday, on on Friday. After that: nothing for 2500km.

 

[JodyS21]

Thanks

I love your signature line.

I'll do a major road-trip in the car, starting tomorrow. Let's hope the dealer can get MG to authorise the update. That's the issue. Dealer is willing, MG Australia says "No".

That road trip will get publicity either way. MG's choice if it is positive or a disaster for them. Crossing the Nullarbor Perhaps mentioning this fact that they don't yet know speeds decisions up.

Edit: there are a couple of other dealers along the way, one on Wednesday, on on Friday. After that: nothing for 2500km.

Maybe you'd better give us some police/next of kin contact information in case we don't ever hear from you again, then we can at least tell them to find your body in a rusted car somewhere in "Nullarbor"....