Free Tesla supercharger update from MG dealerships

[shpub]

EV charging is actually pretty good: home charging works extremely well especially if the system is simple. AC Destination charging works as the interoperability issues and there were some major ones have been addressed and CCS generally works. Yes there are horror stories that need to be addressed but I would not describe it as a wild west by any stretch of the imagination.

Also it is only problems that come up in forums. If people started posting every time they had a successful charge I suspect they would beaten up about it as that is so boring. The successes would swamp everything else.

 

[JimD]

EV charging is actually pretty good: home charging works extremely well especially if the system is simple. AC Destination charging works as the interoperability issues and there were some major ones have been addressed and CCS generally works. Yes there are horror stories that need to be addressed but I would not describe it as a wild west by any stretch of the imagination.

Also it is only problems that come up in forums. If people started posting every time they had a successful charge I suspect they would beaten up about it as that is so boring. The successes would swamp everything else.

I think you're understating the seriousness of compatibility problems with CCS chargers.

If it stops you charging or bricks your car (and there were plenty stories of that happening with the MG5 when I first started coming on this forum) you can end up stranded many miles from home or having to scrat around for an alternative charger. This can be very stressful and one experience like that is one too many.

 

[johnb80]

If it stops you charging or bricks your car (and there were plenty stories of that happening with the MG5 when I first started coming on this forum) you can end up stranded many miles from home or having to scrat around for an alternative charger.

If the charger of whatever flavour bricks the car, that is truly down to the car manufacturer, it really should not be possible.

This can be very stressful and one experience like that is one too many.

Agreed

 

[shpub]

I'm not and I have been left stranded etc (not in the MG) and yes I know what the experience can be like. And I agree it is traumatic. It is not fun as you say and I would not wish it on my worst enemy - well maybe some! I also know how complex sorting out charger problems can be - I have designed them in the past.

However cars are not perfect and any car can leave you stranded. Tyres can be punctured through absolutely no fault of your own and as many cars carry sealent instead of a spare, it can be a bad experience.

All you can do is hope there is a phone signal and wait for the AA. So look at the AA call out figures. They have dropped from 8% of the total call out rate in 2015 to 2.5% in 2023. If the problem is bad as it would appear from all the negative issues that are posted on this and other forums it would be reasonable to assume that EV call out would be going up as the number of cars increase and the wild west charging situation gets worse.

Not denying there are problems... not denying that they are traumatic... But they are the exception not the rule.

Maybe we should start posting successful charges just to prove it.

 

[JimD]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that it's ever possible to eliminate all failures in vehicles, obviously that would be absurd.

There's no need to invite failure by poor regulation though.

 

[shpub]

Time to agree to disagree I think.

 

[johnb80]

Time to agree to disagree I think.

It is a potentially complex issue that without some agreement between all parties concerned will be nigh on impossible to sort it our properly. That said, my experience over the last 8 years has been pretty good, my only 'problems' as such have been chargers blocked, busy or not working. My recent experience with a Tesla Model Y was 100% positive throughout, efficient charging, good availability and above all brilliant pricing for public rapid charging. It really demonstrated what can be done and how it should be done.

 

[DB Go Rex]

Fine don't buy it but the evidence does not seem to agree with you. I would be interested if you have any info on why Tesla are unapproachable and MG are the villains.

Evidence states MGs cars stopped working and everyone else's didn't... ?‍

I don't think villain is the right characterisation.

MG messed up: Hanlon's razor.

The problem is that if legislation doesn't force them (and other manufacturers) to do it, then EV charging will become like the wild west and that situation will slow down adoption.

I suppose CCS is a standard for a reason. If you aren't complying with the standard and your cars have a reputation of not working with chargers, that reputation is going to mean a loss of sales.

 

[shpub]

Evidence states MGs cars stopped working and everyone else's didn't...

Not true. Kia and Hyundai certainly had supercharger problems if you look on their forums with the same symptoms and time scales as well.

 

[Coulomb]

Kia and Hyundai certainly had supercharger problems if you look on their forums with the same symptoms and time scales as well.

Interesting, thanks. I bet they didn't have to pay to get it fixed, though.

Do you know how long it took for these manufacturers to fix it?

 

[shpub]

Interesting, thanks. I bet they didn't have to pay to get it fixed, though.

Do you know how long it took for these manufacturers to fix it?

I don't know about paying for a fix but the disconnecting fix seems to have come out around the same time as MG. In the US as late as January 2024 you had to buy an adapter to use the Superchargers which cost about twice as much as the MG software update...

There is another problem that has come up which doesn't affect MGs with the latest Kia cars. That is with the 800v chargers. A lot of Tesla chargers and it depends on which model and software revision (doesn't it always) do not charge correctly with them and either throttle back to 80kW or abort the charge. The reason appears to be due to that DC converter inside the charger issues. Large voltage ripples are seen which the Tesla unit is wary about and it throttles the current or stops the charge before any damage is done to the car or charger. The cars charge quite happily at 350kW at non-Tesla units.

 

[DB Go Rex]

Not true. Kia and Hyundai certainly had supercharger problems if you look on their forums with the same symptoms and time scales as well.

The EV6 and Ioniq 5 slow charging and drop outs at higher SoC's are an issue but less fundamental than the total incompatibility on MGs.

If it's Tesla's issue, why do MG have a fix?

I don't know about paying for a fix but the disconnecting fix seems to have come out around the same time as MG. In the US as late as January 2024 you had to buy an adapter to use the Superchargers which cost about twice as much as the MG software update...

There is another problem that has come up which doesn't affect MGs with the latest Kia cars. That is with the 800v chargers. A lot of Tesla chargers and it depends on which model and software revision (doesn't it always) do not charge correctly with them and either throttle back to 80Kw or abort the charge. The reason appears to be due to that DC converter inside the charger issues. Large voltage ripples are seen which the Tesla unit is wary about and it throttles the current or stops the charge before any damage is done to the car or charger. The cars charge quite happily at 350kW at non-Tesla units.

The adaptor thing is a totally different situation.

Most cars in the US were being produced with the North American CCS standard whereas Tesla were going their own way with their NACS thing. More recently, some manufacturers have agreed to switch to Tesla's NACS - which means eventually everyone in NA will be on NACS. I think that's unfortunate in the short/medium term as it will add to buyer/user confusion whilst the switch over happens. Longer term the standard is likely better for at least NA.

Thankfully in Europe the standards are consistent with CCS2 - and Tesla are playing along with the standard, which means the opening up of Superchargers is actually valuable.

My trip through France last year would have been a lot more painful without Tesla superchargers.

 

[Gadget Geek]

If it's Tesla's issue, why do MG have a fix?

MG don't have a fix though, they have an "enhancement".

What a load of bo**ocks! You can have the fix . . . sorry "enhancement" for free, but you'll have to pay to have it installed.

 

[shpub]

The EV6 and Ioniq 5 slow charging and drop outs at higher SoC's are an issue but less fundamental than the total incompatibility on MGs.

If it's Tesla's issue, why do MG have a fix?

That was another problem they had. They also reported not recognised cars and disconnects i.e similar compatibility issues that MG and others had. The slow charging issue and it has a big effect on 800V platforms is that the Tesla DC converter starts to generate big voltage ripples and this then requires the charging rate to be throttled or the session aborted to prevent damage to the charger and car. Nothing to do with the CCS standard but a feature of the implementation that appeared with that combination.

Tesla didn't want to or could not fix it - why should they as I suspect they had to change stuff to support their own cars - and left it to the car manufacturers that had to go away and do it themselves. MG and others could have said "Tesla go fix it", get ignored and then what would owners do then? The car manufacturers ended up blinking first.

Whether this will change as the Tesla implementation becomes (yet another standard) will be interesting.

 

[DB Go Rex]

Nothing to do with the CCS standard but a feature of the implementation that appeared with that combination.

Whether this will change as the Tesla implementation becomes (yet another standard) will be interesting.

I was referring specifically to your comment about needing to pay for an adaptor in North America.

The standards situation in the US and Europe/UK are completely different.

In Europe/UK Tesla needs to stick to the CCS2 hardware and software standard - which they appear to be.

 

[shpub]

Ok but the adapter was to allow plug compatibility esentially and was a magic dock. This got incorporated into the cars but was a payable upgrade for non ccs cars. Something that European owners had to pay for.

Tesla do not have a CCS only implentation. They support a super set with extras that use the ccs comms standard but are not part of the ccs standard. That is what changed and started the issues as manufacturers were caught out.

Tesla have succeeded in getting their implentation accepted as the next us standard and is a modified ccs with extras and their spec has a proprietary plug and not the type 2. The plug is relatively easy to overcome so it can have cars that can ccs in Europe but it is the charger implementation changes that have caused the problems. Bit like the old wifi compatibility issues of yesterday or when 3g phones came out. Yes we are 3g compatible but only with our provider and could not roam onto other networks.

The reality for fixing this is blurred. Ideally Tesla should have checked the upgrade before it was sent out. Instead they sent it out and let the owners test it for them and then blamed the manufacturers when it failed. Yes we support ccs and that is a standard - must be the fault of the car. The public accepted this and car manufacturers didn't do their case justice because of the time it took and is it chargeable...

No one is squeaky clean on this but at least there is a solution for most MG owners now. It is their decision whether the cost of the fix is worth it.

 

[Gadget Geek]

The probable moral to this story is, if you want to use the Tesla supercharger network without any issues, buy a Tesla.

It does speak volumes though, that Tesla were able to implement CCS in Europe on their cars without any issues.

 

[shpub]

It does speak volumes though, that Tesla were able to implement CCS in Europe on their cars without any issues.

Yep... Tesla are a software company not a car manufacturer. It just so happened the software is delivered in the shape of a car! Their engineering is quite astounding not totally 100% perfect but light years ahead of the rest!

Oh and the ability to get information from both car and charger when a fault happens makes life easier.

 

[shpub]

Forgot to mention that the US CCS1 standard is virtually the same as CCS2 apart from the plug so they were not starting from scratch and they could issue charger and car updates OTA and in many cases owners were not aware of any issues. Before you say that's what MG need... Tesla started in the 2000s implement this stuff and it cost a fortune. If done right very powerful. If done wrong... a nightmare.

 

[DB Go Rex]

Ok but the adapter was to allow plug compatibility esentially and was a magic dock. This got incorporated into the cars but was a payable upgrade for non ccs cars. Something that European owners had to pay for.

Tesla do not have a CCS only implentation. They support a super set with extras that use the ccs comms standard but are not part of the ccs standard. That is what changed and started the issues as manufacturers were caught out.

Tesla have succeeded in getting their implentation accepted as the next us standard and is a modified ccs with extras and their spec has a proprietary plug and not the type 2. The plug is relatively easy to overcome so it can have cars that can ccs in Europe but it is the charger implementation changes that have caused the problems. Bit like the old wifi compatibility issues of yesterday or when 3g phones came out. Yes we are 3g compatible but only with our provider and could not roam onto other networks.

The reality for fixing this is blurred. Ideally Tesla should have checked the upgrade before it was sent out. Instead they sent it out and let the owners test it for them and then blamed the manufacturers when it failed. Yes we support ccs and that is a standard - must be the fault of the car. The public accepted this and car manufacturers didn't do their case justice because of the time it took and is it chargeable...

No one is squeaky clean on this but at least there is a solution for most MG owners now. It is their decision whether the cost of the fix is worth it.

My point is the adaptor plug that you mentioned earlier is a paid-for accessory that is needed because manufacturers implemented a different charging standard. That's a justified cost on the basis the cars were never meant to be compatible in the first place. You can't compare that in this case:

In Europe with CCS2 across the board, Tesla have opened select chargers up to operate like any other CCS2 rapid charger. There are no other barriers for entry, they are like any other CCS2 charger. Nobody should be paying extra for a car that can't be compliant.

The bottom line is only one of these can be true:

- Tesla produced a charger that has some non - compliance to the standard. All manufacturers other than MG did something to handle the non-compliance (either intentionally or unintentionally)

Or

- Tesla chargers are compliant, as are other manufacturers and MG failed to be compliant (presumably because Tesla are doing something within the handshake that MG don't typically see from other charging providers, but is to standard)