I should have kept that space saver from the Golf.

Totally wrecked, which was my fault, I'll explain later. [ETA: actually, thinking about it, they were wrecked from the get-go. A triangular tear in the tyre wall is not normally repairable.]

Now at Tebay, starving but not for long.

20250402_205319.webp


Caliban is charging at a decent rate so by the time I've eaten this he should have enough to get home.
 
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I'm not the world's best mathematician but statistically what are the chances? The film rights alone must be worth a new set of tyres, of which, now you have new boots on one side, will it need new shoes on the other? Must admit the last two times I did Hardknott I was more worried about brake fade or clutch slip than punctures, perhaps the deterioration of the road and verges over the years have created more unfavourable conditions for tyres especially as manufacturers have tried to make them lighter and more cost effective than previously. At least the RAC came through this time with the new tyre solutions. Phew! 🛟 It would be ironic if it was caused by recently unearthed Roman artefacts (spearheads, pottery shards) lining the verges of the road. 🗡️ which are now the property of the tyre fitter.
 
Everest said:
What an ordeal :eek: Have fun on the 2nd attempt - we did it many years ago - views are amazing, but the road was surprisingly narrow and poorly maintained - we're not talking of quality, "italian job" Alpine passes!

But about tyres, surely the answer for us all without space-savers is to have run-flats? My old BMW had them and worked a treat on the 2 occasions we got flats in 10+ years.

I simply don't understand how manufacturers can fob us off with no space-saver and a bottle of gloop these days. Surely run-flats are the answer?
Click to expand...
I plan on getting runflats when we move and my daily commute increases from 11km to 110km. Unfortunately in the OE size all you can seemingly get (here in Australia anyway) is a Pirelli runflat. So to have some more options one would have to change rims as well.

I wouldn’t mind if the car only came with gloop if there was an option to upgrade to a space saver or full spare, but unfortunately that’s not the case. I saw a picture somewhere of an MG4 that “fitted” a space saver underneath the adjustable boot, but it looks ridiculous in my opinion
 
Well, I suppose I should tell all. To be honest, I'm feeling quite depressed about it all. I've been feeling a bit down for a few weeks, hence being away from the forum for a little while, and the trip(s) to the Lake District were something of a cheer-myself-up strategy. I managed to laugh the first disaster off as bad luck, but twice in a row is getting me down.

The day was absolutely perfect. Clear and sunny with great visibility for the fantastic views. The road was less busy than last time, perhaps because it was a Wednesday not a Friday, which made it pretty stress-free. I got to the start of the Wrynose Pass without incident.

1743714004984.webp


Here's the top of the Wrynose Pass, with the road snaking off towards Cockley Beck and then the start of the Hardknott Pass beyond.

1743714126847.webp


This time I got to Cockley Beck bridge with no trouble at all, and I could see nothing to explain the puncture on the first attempt. The start of the Hardknott Pass beckoned.

1743714287461.webp


I had a minor hiccup at the first bad hairpin when I tried to pull in to let a car that had come up behind me rather fast go past, and lost traction slighly when I miscalculated, but soon recovered, let the other car past, and Caliban took the hairpin perfectly. After that it was fairly plain sailing all the way. I have to say it felt quite hairy and I turned the aircon temperature down a couple of times and not just because it was sunny, but really, take it slow and it's fine. At the summit I came upon a group of not-at-all-young cyclists just getting to the top, and frankly, kudos. Respect. (The gear ratios on the first guy's bike were something else.) They must have been incredibly fit. Here are a few pics from the road.

1743714587735.webp


1743714658615.webp


1743714840105.webp


About two-thirds of the way down there is a Roman fort (the entire thing was a Roman road, though not straight as most of them were) and I climbed up for a look.

1743714890003.webp


This is the bath house, which I only realised later is separate from the rest of the fort which is a bit higher up the hill and not really visible from the road. If I do go back, I'll climb further up and see the rest.

1743715026611.webp


This is Caliban in the little car park for the fort.

1743715141234.webp


I went on to Ravenglass, partly because of the intriguing name. Very pretty village with another Roman bath house, a castle and a steam railway, but distressingly short of coffee shops.

1743715447374.webp


I had been considering whether to risk going back the same way, because although it wasn't really difficult, it's scary the same way a roller-coaster is scary. But as I drove out of Ravenglass the mid-afternoon was so pretty and I knew that I'd have the late afternoon sunshine behind me going back over the pass which would be lovely, and had a rush of bravery - or foolhardiness.
 
Rolfe said:
Well, I suppose I should tell all. To be honest, I'm feeling quite depressed about it all. I've been feeling a bit down for a few weeks, hence being away from the forum for a little while, and the trip(s) to the Lake District were something of a cheer-myself-up strategy. I managed to laugh the first disaster off as bad luck, but twice in a row is getting me down.

The day was absolutely perfect. Clear and sunny with great visibility for the fantastic views. The road was less busy than last time, perhaps because it was a Wednesday not a Friday, which made it pretty stress-free. I got to the start of the Wrynose Pass without incident.

View attachment 35883

Here's the top of the Wrynose Pass, with the road snaking off towards Cockley Beck and then the start of the Hardknott Pass beyond.

View attachment 35884

This time I got to Cockley Beck bridge with no trouble at all, and I could see nothing to explain the puncture on the first attempt. The start of the Hardknott Pass beckoned.

View attachment 35886

I had a minor hiccup at the first bad hairpin when I tried to pull in to let a car that had come up behind me rather fast go past, and lost traction slighly when I miscalculated, but soon recovered, let the other car past, and Caliban took the hairpin perfectly. After that it was fairly plain sailing all the way. I have to say it felt quite hairy and I turned the aircon temperature down a couple of times and not just because it was sunny, but really, take it slow and it's fine. At the summit I came upon a group of not-at-all-young cyclists just getting to the top, and frankly, kudos. Respect. (The gear ratios on the first guy's bike were something else.) They must have been incredibly fit. Here are a few pics from the road.

View attachment 35887

View attachment 35888

View attachment 35890

About two-thirds of the way down there is a Roman fort (the entire thing was a Roman road, though not straight as most of them were) and I climbed up for a look.

View attachment 35891

This is the bath house, which I only realised later is separate from the rest of the fort which is a bit higher up the hill and not really visible from the road. If I do go back, I'll climb further up and see the rest.

View attachment 35892

This is Caliban in the little car park for the fort.

View attachment 35893

I went on to Ravenglass, partly because of the intriguing name. Very pretty village with another Roman bath house, a castle and a steam railway, but distressingly short of coffee shops.

View attachment 35895

I had been considering whether to risk going back the same way, because although it wasn't really difficult, it's scary the same way a roller-coaster is scary. But as I drove out of Ravenglass the mid-afternoon was so pretty and I knew that I'd have the late afternoon sunshine behind me going back over the pass which would be lovely, and had a rush of bravery - or foolhardiness.
Click to expand...

Great pictures and terrific sunshine.
 
This is the start of the distressing tale of denial and boneheaded stupidity.

The actual punctures happened, I think (it's all a bit of a blur), just before the real ascent up the pass begins, perhaps just past Jubilee Bridge.

1743716243381.webp


I heard a couple of clunks on the left-hand side of the car and thought, oh no not again it can't possibly be! The car handling was slightly wonky, but I was wound up and not thinking sensibly. No tyre pressure alarms had come on, just like last time, but I switched to the tyre pressure screen which had shown the puncture last time, and everything was showing absolutely normal. Because of this I persuaded myself it was fine and that I was over-reacting, and pressed on. Like a certifiable idiot.

You can see there are two steep bendy sections quite soon after the Jubilee Bridge. I was deep in denial that I could possibly have another puncture (or two), with the tyre pressures showing normal in front of me to confirm me in my delusion. Caliban seemed to be struggling a bit on the steep sections, but rather than work out what was actually happening, which was that the traction control was having conniptions, I started to worry that the motor wasn't able to take the gradient. (That's right, the motor that had handled the 30% gradient going the other way without breaking sweat.)

The next section, past the fort, isn't so steep, and I wasn't going fast, and I persuaded myself that it was OK. However, as you can see on the map, the hairpins nearer the summit are quite a bit worse, and that very sharp one in particular. That one was my undoing. Caliban simply couldn't make it, at least at first, because obviously he was trying to climb and go round a sharp bend at the same time with two flat tyres. He came to a standstill a couple of times, but when I reversed a little and straightened up, eventually he made it, to just past a narrow passing place (on my right), where he threw in the towel again. Of course someone soon came up behind, and fortunately I was able to manoeuvre Caliban right to the edge of the carriageway beside the passing place, and after that everyone who came up behind me got past OK. Including the guy who handed me the can of lemonade through his window as he passed. (You've seen this picture before.)

1743717274856.webp


The RAC were much better this time. Certainly having a mobile signal helped, but the operator's immediate reaction was, I'm sending a tyre repair company out to you. He made the arrangements while I was on the line. Later the tyre repair people called, looking for more detail about my position, which I was able to give.

The only slight annoyance was that while the RAC operator started talking about them bringing one tyre (because I had told him I had brought a spare), the deal that arrived was for two tyres and nobody was offering to use the one I had brought. To be honest I was beyond arguing at this point, I was just so glad to be rescued. But now I have six summer tyres for this bloody car, while I'm basically trying to run on all-seasons. Of which I only have two left, out of five.

The tyre guy said, obviously, that he couldn't do anything with Caliban in that position, and would I drive to the head of the pass (not very far) where there was a flat, wider passing place. Slightly to my surprise Caliban did it. If I'd realised that he would actually go I suppose I should have done that much earlier and been less of an obstruction, but I was worried that he might stop again where there was no chance for someone to get past, and at least everyone did get past and no contact was made. I was still really spooked by the fact that the car had basically sat down and refused to move at that point, but in retrospect the traction control was understandably out of its tree and wasn't going to let me go any further. Once settled on a less severe gradient and in a straight line it was OK.

The tyre guy (who had a young woman helper with him, I wondered later if she was the chaperone for rescuing damsels in distress in deserted corners) was amazingly efficient. He had everything in the back of that van. Jacked Caliban up, removed the damaged tyres, and this was the point where I saw that the brand new tyre had a triangular tear in the wall. It must have been a pothole that I didn't see, despite my care. Perhaps the fact that I hadn't quite got to the nasty part had lowered my guard, but honestly, I wasn't going at all fast and dozens of other cars (and the tyre repair van) came past without any trouble, and what did I do wrong and why me, Lord?

Anyway, he had the machinery to remove and fit tyres, took off the two damaged ones (sob!) and fitted new ones very quickly. I asked if I needed to have anything checked at the garage when I got home, but he said no, that's a permanent fix. (If only he'd been sent the first time...) He said that as I was past the worst part of the Hardknott I should just go on, the nasty bends above Cockley Beck bridge are easier going downhill, and the Wrynose isn't so bad. Of course he was right. So I did drive the whole way back along both passes, in the end.

I was absolutely bloody paranoid by this time, especially as it was beginning to get dusk, but it's actually quite hard to be watching the road for dangerous defects at the same time as you're looking further ahead to choose your line. Coming down towards Cockley Beck bridge I saw a rather nasty pothole on my right, just too late, and felt the wheels bump into it. I just about passed out thinking I could have done in the other two Goodyears, but I had been going very slowly and nothing was damaged.

I know punctures are very common on that road, but still, lots of people seem to get over OK. How come I managed three in two trips? It's mental.

Anyway, this is coming down from the Wrynose pass towards Ambleside in the dusk.

1743718784952.webp


The new tyres were and are fine, but as I said, more summer tyres I really did not need. Google directed me further south and on to the M6 at J37, but it probably wasn't that much further than taking the A6 and since I had enough charge I wasn't arguing. Got to Tebay and plugged in about 8.35. Their main food servery closes at nine. Probably my first stroke of luck for some time. Lasagne.

When I got home Jori (the cat) was out catting, as usual at that time in the evening, so I just dumped a meal in his dish and went to bed. In the middle of the night he appeared on my bed, patting me all over, as if to say, well you did make it home this time!

This afternoon I took Hilda out on a short ride to calm my nerves; she is supposed to have "puncture proof tyres". Not sure it really worked though. (This picture, taken two miles from home, is proof that I didn't even have the sense to zero the exposure setting on the camera after taking that evening shot on the Wrynose pass.)

1743719337893.webp


So, do I go back for a third time lucky shot? It's getting expensive. Also, the tyre fitter said that from next week, when the schools break up for Easter, the road will be heaving. (I wonder what percentage of cars actually get punctures?) Don't fancy it when it's very busy. I'll see.
 
OriginalBigAl said:
I'm not the world's best mathematician but statistically what are the chances? The film rights alone must be worth a new set of tyres, of which, now you have new boots on one side, will it need new shoes on the other? Must admit the last two times I did Hardknott I was more worried about brake fade or clutch slip than punctures, perhaps the deterioration of the road and verges over the years have created more unfavourable conditions for tyres especially as manufacturers have tried to make them lighter and more cost effective than previously. At least the RAC came through this time with the new tyre solutions. Phew! 🛟 It would be ironic if it was caused by recently unearthed Roman artefacts (spearheads , pottery shards) lining the verges of the road. 🗡️ which are now the property of the tyre fitter.
Click to expand...

Brake fade or clutch slip. Frankly, I would not go up there in a car with a manual gear-shift for the Crown Jewels. I suppose the Golf with its DSG would have been fine, but even so I was a lot happier with the electric motor until the point where the traction control said "no more!" and I was deluding myself it was the motor. (ETA: I suppose I should also give a shout-out to the regenerative braking, which I had on 3 obviously, and was a real reassurance on the downhill stretches.)

But yes, it was loss of traction I was mostly concerned about, but reasoned that the Goodyears really ought to be fine. Which they were. Until they weren't. I was actually slightly unsure about the motor getting up the 30% parts because I know there are ICE cars that simply would not do that. Nuts of course, but maybe that was why I was too ready to imagine the motor was struggling when it was the tyres. I don't know where my brain was at that point, just too stressed to put two and two together and get four.

In fact an EV is the perfect car for a road like that, supposing your tyres can take it (no slip, and no punctures). Consider, referring to the map above. Caliban actually made it all the way up the Hardknott pass from the Jubilee Bridge to the summit (where the new tyres were fitted) with two flat tyres. Nearly a mile with hairpin bends going up 20% gradients. Show me the ICE car that can do that.
 
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Rolfe said:
Brake fade or clutch slip. Frankly, I would not go up there in a car with a manual gear-shift for the Crown Jewels. I suppose the Golf with its DSG would have been fine, but even so I was a lot happier with the electric motor until the point where the traction control said "no more!" and I was deluding myself it was the motor.

But yes, it was loss of traction I was mostly concerned about, but reasoned that the Goodyears really ought to be fine. Which they were. Until they weren't. I was actually slightly unsure about the motor getting up the 30% parts because I know there are ICE cars that simply would not do that. Nuts of course, but maybe that was why I was too ready to imagine the motor was struggling when it was the tyres. I don't know where my brain was at that point, just too stressed to put two and two together and get four.

In fact an EV is the perfect car for a road like that, supposing your tyres can take it (no slip, and no punctures). Consider, referring to the map above. Caliban actually made it all the way up the Hardknott pass from the Jubilee Bridge to the summit (where the new tyres were fitted) with two flat tyres. Nearly a mile with hairpin bends going up 20% gradients. Show me the ICE car that can do that.
Click to expand...
Aye I must admit I love the way the EV pulls itself up steep bits that make an ICE car think twice. There’s a couple of steep hairpin type bends on the road between Linlithgow and Bathgate where I always tend to pull away from following icemobiles. Perhaps less so now with the Berlingo but it still has that reassuring torquey sort of tug up hills.
Could your deflated tyre(s) have been loose on the rims and the wheel spinning a weee bit inside without moving the tyre so efficiently to give the feeling of loss of power? That is the only explanation I can think of and again that could have been exacerbated by the willing torque of the EV?

Mod: You can edit your posts, you know.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Archev said:
You have to survive with a smile - we all love the descriptive tales. Shame some of them get a bit expensive though.
Click to expand...

Actually, typing that has been quite therapeutic. Like being able to cry on someone's shoulder virtually, or something.

Archev said:
Could your deflated tyre(s) have been loose on the rims and the wheel spinning a weee bit inside without moving the tyre so efficiently to give the feeling of loss of power? That is the only explanation I can think of and again that could have been exacerbated by the willing torque of the EV?
Click to expand...

Could well have been. But the car actually stopped and refused to move at all a couple of times and I suspect the traction control was saying, I don't know what's going on here but I'm not letting you carry on doing it.
 
Two final thoughts. Why are there no snow gates on these roads? I mean, seriously, you'd be dead, but you can't trust people to be sensible.

1743724243715.webp


They even have cameras on them that can be accessed live online so you can see the score before you set out.

And, I was expecting the landscape to be like Scotland, but it isn't. I can't put my finger on it, but it's definitely not the same shape. (And several people have told me that it is indeed true that there are no midges there, which I find almost impossible to believe, and can't understand why that would be if indeed it's true.)

I suppose the two sides of the Iapetus Ocean aren't the same.
 
Glad you are ok and got home at a sensible time on this occasion!

The last time I went over Hardknott was about 25 years ago and that was on an Aprilia V twin 1000cc motorbike, not something I would ever want to repeat! I haven't problems doing the road but not on a big heavy motorbike with lots of low down torque 😳
 

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