Intelligent Octopus Go works like a dream.

[tsedge]

And that was the initial post I responded to as being incorrect advice. And the subsequent adamant assertions that it was endorsed by Octopus as the correct way to use the tariff. Which it now has been confirmed by Octopus as it clearly isn't.

No, it wasn't that post, the advice I am talking about was months ago before you joined the forums. But it doesn't really matter when... it shows - as you say - that people are not clear on what is expected.

The Ohme integration is at least 18mths past the early adopter stage now. I can only go by the experience of being the Admin of that FB group and 6.5k members - 95%+ 'get it' and don't see it as any hassle at all to quickly adjust the amount required. You don't need to be exact, if you need 40% and the app is set to 50% then thats not an issue. It would be an issue if you needed 20% and the app is set to 100% though and you did this every day. With the new Ohme app you can do it after you plug in as well, you don't have to do it before you plug in. But you can do that with the Zappi intgeration in the Octopus app as well.

I still disagree. The only things that work for mass market solutions are extremely simple and obvious to use. The idea that the average person would diligently worry about getting their SOC right every day is for the birds. I still maintain that you are part of an early adopter community that have been following the rules for 18 months but still are not representative of the population at large.

I would have no problem if Octopus said this is a small-scale tariff only for the diligent and not for mass market use. Arguably that is the case already with it being experimental.

 

[andyvee]

Can you cite this, please? Link to where they have confirmed it.

They confirmed that you shouldn’t always leave it set at 100%

 

[Stuart Wright]

Just to confirm, then, that this issue exists when there are people using IOG

• with a Zappi
• without a compatible EV
• without sufficient moral compass

?

 

[andyvee]

the advice I am talking about was months ago before you joined the forums

So not these posts?

Now my AC charging works again, I am finally thinking of shifting from Go to Intelligent.

I understand how it works pretty well.

Just one question: do I have to tell it how much to charge the car every time I plug in or can I just set it once to add a fixed percentage and then plug in and forget it?

I like the simplicity of my current setup where I literally just plug the car in, that's it.

Just leave it set at 100%, it will work fine.

This is the one I initially responded to

 

[tsedge]

when faced with a user who was promoting that their (incorrect) advice was endorsed by Octopus, and was personally insulting.

Andy, I appreciate you taking the time to explain things now in a calm tone, it is much easier to read.

I believe John believed it was endorsed by Octopus because there had been no public announcements to the contrary (from Octopus) and because there had been no action taken and for many months since Zappi integration was released. That was in my view a reasonable position for him to take.

While you've explained what you know, you haven't actually disclosed all your sources and named names, provided emails etc... which means we have to take what you say on trust.

So again, I want to hear Octopus say all this publicly in communication to all users before I will take it as the gospel truth.

 

[andyvee]

Just to confirm, then, that this issue exists when there are people using IOG

• with a Zappi
• without a compatible EV
• without sufficient moral compass

?

Almost. With a Zappi or Wallbox integrated to IOG. It is the device that is connected to Octopus that is the important part. You could have a Zappi and a compatible EV and have chosen to connect the Zappi to Octopus. Octopus don;t know the SoC of the car in these scenarios, it is your responsibility to specify how much charge you need to Add to the car.

If you have a compatible EV and a Zappi but choose to connect the car to Octopus you are charging to xx% and Octopus know the SoC of the car so are scheduling the amount of charge correctly.

 

[tsedge]

So not these posts?
This is the one I initially responded to

My apologies, I didn't realise this was the original thread from last year. Yes it was from these posts.

 

[Stuart Wright]

Citing a source involves providing a link to where a reputable source has published the relevant information. I always try to do this to support my statements.

Almost. With a Zappi or Wallbox integrated to IOG. It is the device that is connected to Octopus that is the important part. You could have a Zappi and a compatible EV and have chosen to connect the Zappi to Octopus. Octopus don;t know the SoC of the car in these scenarios, it is your responsibility to specify how much charge you need to Add to the car.

If you have a compatible EV and a Zappi but choose to connect the car to Octopus you are charging to xx% and Octopus know the SoC of the car so are scheduling the amount of charge correctly.

It's logical to hope that where there is a choice of car or charger, that Octopus would make the best choice for the user and use the car.

 

[tsedge]

I disagree on the moral compass. I think this is confusion arising out of lack of communication from Octopus. I am still not clear where the line is and I hope Octopus makes it crystal clear through changes in their app and communications.

 

[andyvee]

where a reputable source

So Octopus contacting johnb80 directly due to the incorrect content he had posted in here (with his Octopus referral code in his signature so they knew exactly who he was), and johnb80 posting that they had and told him not to leave set to Add 100% is not reputable enough. Fair enough.

The Zappi KB article with a section stating not to do anything to game the tariff to forcibly extend/increase the number of off-peak slots allocated - is that of sufficient reputable merit? Or the post in the myenergi forums by myenergi staff that Octopus are going to make changes due to the level of gaming by Zappi users?

 

[mg4mc]

I believe Type 2 is both very simple and very old, there's no specific data channel, just basic line signalling. But I'm no expert on it.

v2 never happened because Chademo, CCS etc... came along instead.

It would be convenient if home chargers used CCS but then they'd be much bulkier to do DC charging or CCS would need to support an AC mode somehow.

Basically, it is all a bit of a mess. But Type 2 is extremely reliable.

That makes sense.

But, but,... all data, even from high-speed chargers goes over the physical type 2 connector - it's the only one with data pins.

If I plug in to a 11 or 22kW Type 2 charger it can read the SoC from the car, can't it? Or am I misremembering - it's been some time since I used one.

 

[andyvee]

Its both.

Lack of communication. And those doing it deliberately for financial gain.

If I plug in to a 11 or 22kW Type 2 charger it can read the SoC from the car, can't it?

No.

I am still not clear where the line is

If you are not setting how much charge you actually require to a reasonable degree of accuracy, you are the wrong side of the line. Be that through lack of communication, or a deliberate act to gain extra cheap leccy.

that Octopus would make the best choice for the user and use the car.

Why? The user specifies as part of the onboarding process which device to connect to Octopus.

And there are advantages to connecting the EVSE - multiple EV households for example. It is also arguably more reliable than a vehicle API connection in the majority of EV manufacturers cases (with the exception of Tesla API which is pretty rock solid).

 

[tsedge]

If you are not setting how much charge you actually require to a reasonable degree of accuracy, you are the wrong side of the line. Be that through lack of communication, or a deliberate act to gain extra cheap leccy.

It isn't lack of my communication though, but theirs, so that's not down to me.

I won't be changing my use of IOG since I believe (from what you have said) this is fixable their end if they change how they do their Zappi billing, alter their app behaviour and analyse the statistical data to plan for people's behaviour.

Now if they want to kick me off the tariff they can. I can go elsewhere, I am not that bothered. I don't believe I am doing anything wrong.

 

[andyvee]

Now if they want to kick me off the tariff they can

Who said anything about anyone getting kicked off the tariff?

Where abuse has been identified by Octopus that I am aware of, they have contacted the user in a an attempt to explain and put a stop to the abuse.

 

[tsedge]

I have committed no abuse.

They have not contacted me and if they did I'd have a lot to say about how to make this solution better based on the information here - although it would be far more effective for them to communicate to all users, rather than 1 by 1.

But it isn't my job to fix their confusing service, so if they asked me to change the charge level every day, I'd refuse - which presumably would lead to me being kicked off the tariff.

 

[andyvee]

It isn't lack of my communication though, but theirs, so that's not down to me.

I agree. As I said a number of posts ago, Octopus can't seem to grasp that people are leaving set to Add 80% or Add 100% because they haven't been informed that it isn't the correct way to use the tariff. Despite Ts&Cs saying you need to set how much charge you need, and an app that clearly states it is the amount of charge to Add and not charge To. Octopus seem to think it is clear, when in reality it isn't. Up to them to fix that.

I have committed no abuse.

I never said you had .....

 

[tsedge]

I never said you had .....

Thank you, your definition that it wasn't just pursuing financial gain that was abuse implied that I might have.

 

[andyvee]

Thank you, your definition that it wasn't just pursuing financial gain that was abuse implied that I might have.

No - there is a difference between deliberate gaming/abuse, and those just leaving it set to 80/100% because it isn't clear.

2-3 years ago, the number of vehicles with 50kWh and larger batteries that are not supported as direct vehicle integrations on IOG was a lot lower than it is now. So this problem has grown with more larger capacity vehicles, and EVSE support being added. Which has created loopholes larger enough to drive trucks through if you are that way inclined.

 

[tsedge]

No - there is a difference between deliberate gaming/abuse, and those just leaving it set to 80/100% because it isn't clear.

Thanks. Appreciate your willingness to engage differently in this second conversation. I have to go and do other things now, be interesting to see what Octopus do.

 

[johnb80]

Wow, quite a thread.

Just to confirm my modus operandi of IOG. I did, most of the time leave it set to 100% by 05:30. This didnt start any early charging sessions, if it did I would reduce the % needed so that the charging started at 23:30. We have 2 EV's a 33kWh one and 64 kWh, the charge required differing significantly between the two. I have asked Octopus to consider making the car registration have another option of 100kWh battery, that would then make it breeze for the kWh to add rather than a %.
On Sunday mornings my usage pattern resulted in a charge being needed starting at 07:00 which usually resulted in a charging session being granted upto 11:30. Octopus do NOT give you all that is requested. The 50kWh or thereabouts needed to charge the car could not and were not dispensed in this time. Furthermore when an EV has stopped charging as sometimes did occur if the i3 was charging on a Sunday, normal peak rate price was charged at the end of the current 30 minute period. During these extra sessions, I have configured my system to charge the house batteries, run the immersion, we do washing and tumble drying too. Often for good measure the Sunday Roast is also under way.
Looking at the T&C's I cannot see anything in there that my true mode of operation contravenes. Octopus when they contacted me due to Andyvee informing them of my comments, they said they had 'noticed unusual charging practices' and went on to lecture me about gaming the system. As some of you will know, I record and analyse all of my energy use, now fully automated with Home Assistant. I checked on my data and for the life of me, I cant see any 'unusual' practices taking place. I asked the person at Octopus if they could highlight exactly what my unusual practice is, the first response was that they wouldnt disclose it because that would tell me exactly what they were looking for. How they expect me to correct what I'm doing wrong if they tell me beggars belief. I have made more requests for the information and I'm about to make a Formal freedom Of Information request regarding this matter.
I have in addition requested an explanation about their monitoring because we really know that not the case, they couldn't notice anything there, it was purely down to Andyvee discussing my account with Octopus. I am going take this aspect much further with Octopus and possibly the Ombudsman, I feel there's potentially some GDPR and other infringements here.
I still don't see how I could be accused of 'gaming' the system, my Sunday morning charge is a legitimate charge request and within T&C's

J