Is everyday charging harmful for the battery ?

[manictomb]

Very correct loveyev on light and regen also I don't charge my mg5 to 100 % every day but when do charge my mg5 I always charge to 100% and have no problems in fact it seems to be good for the batteries ?

 

[BarryH]

Do the brake lights come on when using max regen? Some cars do.

There is a legal requirement for any vehicle slowing beyond a cert rate of deacceleration to operate rear indicator lights ie brake lights. this was why there was a recall on MG5s at one point because they weren't doing so.
WRT to the question of friction brakes wasting energy yes of course they do as with any ICE car. However, Certainly on the ZS EV if you watch the Power Dial you'll notice the even on KERS 3 (the max Regen setting) lifting off gives you regen but lightly applying the foot brake increases the rate of Regen before actually applying the friction brakes. As low speed drops the braking effect from Regen diminishes and the Friction brake pads do more of the work. I've been really impressed by just how good this system is at regenerating on the ZS when driving enthusiastically achieving up to 4.2 mlies/kWh on winding B Roads plus the transition from Regen to Friction braking is smooth, unlike several other EVs I have driven.

 

[Vipar]

Regen = KERS = Kinetic Energy Recovery as in F1

I wonder if the next generation LR will have the superior battery in it ? I hope so

 

[John G]

I'm so sorry if it's already been asked qnd discussed before in the forum but probably because I'm new in the forum , i couldn't find such a subject .
I may need to charge everyday sometimes so I'm just worrying about to cause decrease on battery life ...
What I could find in the forum is that's not healthy to charge over %80 for daily usage , due to the battery type . So if I charge it everyday up to %80 would it make a problem in the future ? ?

According to Dr Euan McTurk on YouTube (PlugLifeTelevision channel - he is a battery specialist, daily charging at 7kw upto 100% has no effect on a battery. Its leaving it sitting around fully charged thats causes the problem. In fact he states a car should be fully charged regularly to balance the battery cells. Charging to 8% definately causes no problems. Constant rapid charging is the thing that causes problems but mainly the effect of cells not being balanced.

 

[DrErhan]

According to Dr Euan McTurk on YouTube (PlugLifeTelevision channel - he is a battery specialist, daily charging at 7kw upto 100% has no effect on a battery. Its leaving it sitting around fully charged thats causes the problem. In fact he states a car should be fully charged regularly to balance the battery cells. Charging to 8% definately causes no problems. Constant rapid charging is the thing that causes problems but mainly the effect of cells not being balanced.

Thank you very much for sharing this information ... I was already thinking that something wrong about this subject ... Because if we are supposed to not to make a full charge then how we couldn get the benefit of buying a Long Range car ... I did it once and charged my batteries %100 and reached a 340 miles range with a average consumption of 4.5 miles per kw

 

[biffo]

It’s worth keeping an eye on James from Cleevely EV and his two MG5s which are high mileage and daily overnight charging to 100%

 

[BarryH]

It’s worth keeping an eye on James from Cleevely EV and his two MG5s which are high mileage and daily overnight charging to 100%

Bear in mind that James uses his MG5 as a real work horse and is as he said charges to 100% FIVE days a week not every day. If he charges to 100% it is because he is going to be using it from early the next day and not leave it AT 100% just sitting there degrading the battery electrodes

 

[biffo]

Bear in mind that James uses his MG5 as a real work horse and is as he said charges to 100% FIVE days a week not every day. If he charges to 100% it is because he is going to be using it from early the next day and not leave it AT 100% just sitting there degrading the battery electrodes

Absolutely - the most vital rule of thumb when it comes to charging an EV seems to be not leaving the car at too high, or too low a charge for any prolonged period of time.

There are a few taxi/private-hire drivers on the forum who do nightly 100% charging too - with the intent of using the car the next day. I also only do a monthly charge to 100% when planning on a next day journey.

 

[manictomb]

I charged my mg5 100% then discovered I got COVID ? so didn't use the car for over a week but when I got in still 100% and started first time ready so I think for a period of over say 3 weeks may disconnect the 12 volt battery so it don't discharge ?

 

[biffo]

I charged my mg5 100% then discovered I got COVID ? so didn't use the car for over a week but when I got in still 100% and started first time ready so I think for a period of over say 3 weeks may disconnect the 12 volt battery so it don't discharge ?

Don't disconnect the 12V battery, just don't leave the car at 100% HV battery charge for any prolonged period of time (I'd say, ideally not even a week - but that's based on absolutely no knowledge of how long it takes to degrade the HV battery). Just leave it at around 50% to 80% and not worry.

 

[Alansurfer]

A large battery pack is carefully monitored by the battery management system and never actually charges to 100% cell voltage, the 100% is the maximum allowable storage capacity for the pack not the maximum voltage. Every charge method from slow to rapid will slow to the same slow rate towards the end to ensure longevity of the pack, a rapid DC charge is less likely to fully balance the the pack as it’s usually stopped (80-90%) before the process has completed. A low and high voltage buffer helps the battery pack charge faster and last longer in charge cycles, this is beneficial for the warranty which is usually based on time rather than charge cycles. Calendar ageing can cause capacity loss with large capacity packs even on a low mileage vehicle, 5-7 year warranty should inspire confidence as there are no other electronic devices i can think of with that sort of warranty.
It isn really possible to over or under discharge as the charge controller and battery management system just won’t allow it, plug it and change to 100% and let the onboard electronics sort it all out.
I‘ve built several packs using Nissan Leaf cells and they are very robust even though I’m pushing to their maximum voltage.

 

[Taliano2]

I have my ZS EV for almost 2 years.
I have the first updated done after fill months collected the car, the updated have the bug and damaged the battery range for fill months, till the second update came to fix the previous one.
For the first year, I have been charge the car in a rapid charge, every day, then I noticed the battery lost around 8 miles in range, I don't know if is caused by the bad update or because I used the rapid charge.
Then moved to a new home, and then started using the home charger 7kw every night, and do the balancing every night, connect to charge almost every day with low battery, 10%, 15%.
Resent check and the range still the same, 155 miles in Normal mode, don't lose any range in the past year, and I have done 64500 miles in 2 years working as minicab in London.

 

[BarryH]

I have my ZS EV for almost 2 years.
I have the first updated done after fill months collected the car, the updated have the bug and damaged the battery range for fill months, till the second update came to fix the previous one.
For the first year, I have been charge the car in a rapid charge, every day, then I noticed the battery lost around 8 miles in range, I don't know if is caused by the bad update or because I used the rapid charge.
Then moved to a new home, and then started using the home charger 7kw every night, and do the balancing every night, connect to charge almost every day with low battery, 10%, 15%.
Resent check and the range still the same, 155 miles in Normal mode, don't lose any range in the past year, and I have done 64500 miles in 2 years working as minicab in London.

I hope this explanation helps. The range degradation you experienced in the first year is most likely due to the cells in the pack becoming out of balance. When this happens the charge level on each cell when the car stops its normal charge will be slightly different due to the individual characteristics of each cell. The difference accumulates overtime on each charging session. When the car is driven and the battery pack is discharged it will the Battery Management System (BMS) will show Empty based on the lowest charged cell and therefore the range is less. Charging in the first year on Rapid (DC) charging even though to 100% cannot Balance or Equalise the individual cells since this can only happen using the AC 7 kW or "10 Amp 2.3 kW Granny Charger" after the 100% charge is reached. The Equalising of the cell charge during the Balance Charge is at a very low rate and is achieved via the BMS trickle charging of individual cells. If the Balance of the Cells in the Pack is way out, then it will take multiple Balance charge cycles to gradually bring the cells to an equal charge level. However, because sometimes cells through degradation some cells in the pack can't reach the same State of Charge (SOS) as the majority, the BMS will time out at around 6 hours. There is a secondary mechanism for balancing to a limited degree which you get during the first 3 to 5% of discharge while driving after a 100% charge but this isn't a substitute for an extended AC Balance Charge.

 

[Deleted member 7316]

It shouldn't matter about the MAXIMUM capabilities of the charger, the battery management system will limit the incoming power to prevent damage to the battery pack.

If you attached to a 50kW charger the BMS will not allow it to deliver 200A all the way up to 100% It should at least ramp down the DC current to inhibit the overheating that would occur if you didn't. I have read in some cases the charger turns off altogether although I haven't been able to confirm this. Apparently it is considered bad etiquette to sit on a fast charger if you are not using its full capacity but as I have never even done this I can't comment.

 

[BarryH]

It shouldn't matter about the MAXIMUM capabilities of the charger, the battery management system will limit the incoming power to prevent damage to the battery pack.

If you attached to a 50kW charger the BMS will not allow it to deliver 200A all the way up to 100% It should at least ramp down the DC current to inhibit the overheating that would occur if you didn't. I have read in some cases the charger turns off altogether although I haven't been able to confirm this. Apparently it is considered bad etiquette to sit on a fast charger if you are not using its full capacity but as I have never even done this I can't comment.

It is true that the Rapid Charger will ramp down the charging rate as the battery pack SOC increases and the Rapid Charger receives signals about the progress of the SOC from the car. However, it matters a great deal with regards to Balance or Equalisation where the power is coming from since Rapid Charging is a DC Charge and bypasses the Onboard Charger which can Balance Charge individual cells within the pack. Therefore, even if the Rapid Charger slows to a snail's pace above 90% to 95% DC charging from the Rapid Charger connects to ALL the cells in SERIES and therefore can't balance charge. Charging at 7 kW at home the onboard charger first charges the pack as a whole at 7 kW until 100% and then that stops and the BMS trickle charges individual cells within the pack at a very slow rate. During this stage, the onboard charger draws only a fraction of a kW maybe 200 to 300 watts.

 

[Harry]

It shouldn't matter about the MAXIMUM capabilities of the charger, the battery management system will limit the incoming power to prevent damage to the battery pack.

If you attached to a 50kW charger the BMS will not allow it to deliver 200A all the way up to 100% It should at least ramp down the DC current to inhibit the overheating that would occur if you didn't. I have read in some cases the charger turns off altogether although I haven't been able to confirm this. Apparently it is considered bad etiquette to sit on a fast charger if you are not using its full capacity but as I have never even done this I can't comment.

Interesting I just charged my wife's e-Up! yesterday on a BP Pulse CCS charger at a restaurant. Charged to about 80% then it stopped the session completely. Left me wondering if it was programmed to do that when the charge current dropped below a certain value, or whether the car did it. BP Pulse AC chargers charge to 100%.

 

[BarryH]

Interesting I just charged my wife's e-Up! yesterday on a BP Pulse CCS charger at a restaurant. Charged to about 80% then it stopped the session completely. Left me wondering if it was programmed to do that when the charge current dropped below a certain value, or whether the car did it. BP Pulse AC chargers charge to 100%.

I don't think it is a policy for BP Pulse to shut off at 80% but I have had BP Pulse chargers stop early, back when they were 50 kWPolar Rapid chargers, but I don't recall that it was at any specific SOC that it happened. 7 kW charging tends to be more consistent public charging in my experience, providing the charge starts, as the charging process is mainly handled by the car's onboard charger whereas DC Rapid sessions are more governed by the Rapid Chargers and their back end network connection.

What's anyone else's experience in this respect?

 

[Lovemyev]

I don't think it is a policy for BP Pulse to shut off at 80% but I have had BP Pulse chargers stop early, back when they were 50 kWPolar Rapid chargers, but I don't recall that it was at any specific SOC that it happened. 7 kW charging tends to be more consistent public charging in my experience, providing the charge starts, as the charging process is mainly handled by the car's onboard charger whereas DC Rapid sessions are more governed by the Rapid Chargers and their back end network connection.

What's anyone else's experience in this respect?

Regarding our previous ZS EV - On the first occasion we found it necessary to used a BP Polar Rapid with out Polar Plus subscription ( now cancelled ).
By using the RFID card, we where up and charging in seconds !.
We allowed the car to charge away nicely as our intension was to charge to 80% and then move on.
As we returned too the car, the screen on the unit displayed that we where at 78%.
When it hit 80% - as I walked towards the unit, made a loud "Thud" and it stopped charging, before I could stop it manually !.
On the screen, it was displaying a message that said something like :-
"Communication has been lost" or something like that.
This was over two years ago now, so my memory is not that actuate.
As soon as the display hit 80% - Bang it stopped charging instantly.
Other members have witnessed this on the Polar Units also.
The unit we where using, is fairly local and is only about 2 years old.
The next time I had reason to use another Polar rapid ( because I had a sub ) was at another location.
Just a quick "Splash & Dash" this time.
I purposely watched the car hit the 80% mark and it kept going this time !.
It hit 83% and I finished the charge.
On the first occasion the car was running on the original BMS software, on the second occasion the car had received the latest BMS update.
I have no idea if this had made an difference to the charging behaviour of course ?.

 

[Harry]

I don't think it is a policy for BP Pulse to shut off at 80% but I have had BP Pulse chargers stop early, back when they were 50 kWPolar Rapid chargers, but I don't recall that it was at any specific SOC that it happened. 7 kW charging tends to be more consistent public charging in my experience, providing the charge starts, as the charging process is mainly handled by the car's onboard charger whereas DC Rapid sessions are more governed by the Rapid Chargers and their back end network connection.

What's anyone else's experience in this respect?

This was a 50kW Polar labelled charger.

 

[Gandalfharrow]

Do the brake lights come on when using max regen? Some cars do.

Mine do on the ZS LR, you can see them reflected on cars behind you or road signs you have passed