MG4 in Australia

[tsedge]

Great video, looks great lowered, not a fan of those particular wheels, body kit pretty good. Overall. ??

Yes this is better, should be standard fit if you ask me.

 

[GJT]

I'm interested in purchasing a new EV4 and am hoping the 51 will be OK for my needs. But my regular commutes will be a 230 km highway trip from Perth to Busselton. In summer with the aircon on and sitting on 100 kms an hour most of the way will I make it on a full charge. Can anyone with experience of real world driving ranges in Australia give me some advice.
Thanks.

 

[decrep]

We made it to Margaret River from Mandurah in a 51 excite. We had about 40% when we got there, had a coffee while we charged up to 80% and got home with 20%.
I didn't check the charging station in Busselton. But Chargefox says there's one in Eaton. There's also new BP Pulse charges at Baldivis.

I've found the Chargefox app very good, it works with the RAC chargers and others.
Plugshare is another useful App, but I don't get on with it as well.

OK just checked Chargefox and it says there's an RAC 50kW charger at Busselton.
RAC members get a 20% discount, standard charge is $0.45/kWh.

 

[Rolfe]

Based on my experience in Scotland with the same car I'd say you'd be OK. I can get that out of mine at higher speeds on the motorway in summer, at lower temperatures with the aircon on. The aircon doesn't take as much power as the heater.

I wouldn't expect to get that far in the cold and the rain with a headwind, but do you get these conditions in Australia?

 

[decrep]

We get every thing in Australia, it's a big country.
But the run between Perth and Busselton could get down to 5°C in Winter mornings and up to 44°C in a summer heat wave. Rain can get very heavy, with up to 50kt winds in a very bad storm. But mostly winds are less than 20kts in summer. Fortunately that's a tail wind on the way home, without a head wind on the way down.

 

[decrep]

So yes on a bad day, there'll need to be a top up somewhere.

 

[Rolfe]

Sounds like it. If @GJT doesn't want to have to top up when conditions are adverse he'd really need the LR. I wouldn't rely on more than about 200 km in really rough cold weather.

 

[GJT]

Thanks everyone for your input.
Sounds like weather and driving conditions are going to be a big factor. I have a house with a garage and future charge point in Busselton so charging there is not a problem. I've also got a bomby 4wd there. So worst case scenario would be a quick top up in Bunbury/Eaton along the way.
The alternative would be to go the Excite 64 with the better range but different battery which I know is another big talking point.

 

[decrep]

Let us know how it goes, when it's happening.

 

[Rolfe]

Thanks everyone for your input.
Sounds like weather and driving conditions are going to be a big factor. I have a house with a garage and future charge point in Busselton so charging there is not a problem. I've also got a bomby 4wd there. So worst case scenario would be a quick top up in Bunbury/Eaton along the way.
The alternative would be to go the Excite 64 with the better range but different battery which I know is another big talking point.

For whatever reason I was very attracted to the idea of the LFP battery, even at the cost of maybe 50-60 miles range and the shorter charging time. I don't think it was just the £2,500 cheaper price tag. It does mean that I need a charging stop on the way to and from my friend's house 186 miles away (half the journey is fast motorway which cuts the range) but it doesn't bother me. I find I'm more relaxed and less desperate to get on when I'm driving the EV.

Anyway, I haven't regretted it, even on longer road trips, because the slower charging actually gives time for a proper meal break. And my regular 95-mile round trips are easily within the car's range even in very adverse weather conditions.

It's something that needs to be weighed up when deciding which model to buy though. If you have somewhere for an emergency top-up in adverse weather conditions, and you don't mind doing that, then by all means go for the 51 kWh model. There are genuine advantages. The important thing is to realise what the limitations are right at the start so you don't have regrets later.

 

[Corindikev]

There has been a lot of hype and hysteria regarding battery chemistry with some people saying they would not buy a car with a NMC battery.

The fact is that by far the biggest majority of EVs on the road have NMC batteries. While the 64kWh batteries are NMC and owners are advised to charge to 80% for day to day running that doesn't mean if you don't the battery isn't going to last as long. There are numerous examples of NMC batteries still at very high SOH after 1/2 a million miles or more, many not being charged to any specific regime at all including a lot of fast and supercharger use.

Even though LFP batteries can be charged to 100% every time, the batteries, like NMC should not be left at 100% for long periods of time for the very same reasons of enhanced degradation when sitting at this charge for weeks on end.

Battery electrochemists like Euan McTurk agree as well. Also SAIC has announced a lifetime warranty on all MG EV batteries in China & Thailand & CATL is providing 1 million & 1.5 million km warranties on its batteries for buses & trucks in China.

NMC is going to be around for a while yet for the very good reason that they have the best energy density. A 64kWh LFP battery would be too big to fit in to an MG4.

In most cases with battery management systems as they are today, it is likely that the battery will outlast the car.

 

[tsedge]

Yes, I firmly believe most people no longer need to worry that much about battery lifespan and soon we will be laughing at the days when we went through these strange rituals to try to keep our batteries healthy.

Batteries already last more than long enough, don't leave them full for long periods of time, charge them full at least once a month and discharge them to nearly empty every once in a while: job done.

 

[Archev]

Yes, I firmly believe most people no longer need to worry that much about battery lifespan and soon we will be laughing at the days when we went through these strange rituals to try to keep our batteries healthy.

Batteries already last more than long enough, don't leave them full for long periods of time, charge them full at least once a month and discharge them to nearly empty every once in a while: job done.

I have an infallible method of applying the essence of all of the above. Sometimes I leave the car with sufficient to go about my daily runs. Other times I have it brim full at 100%. This necessitates simply getting in and driving to a coffeehouse sufficiently far away to reduce the charge back to a lower level. This might be to 80% or it could necessitate a top up to get home if I get carried away by the fun of the five.
My infallible method ?
Simple, I rely on either advance planning or advancing years and it’s a toss up which wins.
It’s never failed me …



Yet

 

[decrep]

Well I'm good for advancing years, we'll see what happens

 

[Archev]

Well I'm good for advancing years, we'll see what happens

Enjoy ?

 

[Rolfe]

All this is absolutely true. There isn't the slightest reason for anyone to be concerned about buying a car with an NMC battery if that's the car that suits their needs. Probably the only real world advantage of an LFP is that when some EV hater comes out with the line about child slaves in the Congo, you can tell them where to get off.

 

[Corindikev]

At some point in the future when cars are getting old and the 2nd hand battery market has slowed right down, lots of EV batteries (and all sorts of other batteries) will be recycled and even now more than 90% of the minerals contained in the batteries are recovered for re-use. This will reduce the demand for Cobalt, Nickel and Lithium. The rise in other technologies like Sodium for large fixed batteries is already having an effect.

 

[Rolfe]

It's just bragging rights really. Though it did come in handy the time the GivEnergy rep tried to lay the "child slavery" line on my friend's husband while we were queuing for lunch at the Everything Electric show. At first I was gobsmacked, then I handed him both barrels. Petroleum desulphurisation, mobile phone batteries, the lot. All the while perched on the moral high ground of my LFP battery!

 

[PeterM]

I'm interested in purchasing a new EV4 and am hoping the 51 will be OK for my needs. But my regular commutes will be a 230 km highway trip from Perth to Busselton. In summer with the aircon on and sitting on 100 kms an hour most of the way will I make it on a full charge. Can anyone with experience of real world driving ranges in Australia give me some advice.
Thanks.

TL;DR: I wouldn't go with an Excite 51. Probably better to get an LR 77.

I have an Excite 51. Average commute is ~70km/day, of which about 50km is freeway at 100km/hr.
My experience in summer (with aircon, outside temps > 35 degrees) is the freeway portion is ~16-17kWh/100km.
In winter the freeway portion with heating (outside temps are ~5 degrees) is 18-19kWh/100km. I suspect that might be higher than others as the freeway is very close and the heating has only just turned on. It might be skewing the figures a tad.

Assuming you get ~17kWh/100km and ~300km range, in theory you're fine.
However I wouldn't go down the path of a 51 for a few reasons:

• Any detour or unexpected conditions are going to start pushing the limits of your range
• Any interrupted charging (supply issues, charging faults, etc) will leave you without sufficient range
• You're going to be cycling the battery quite significantly - potentially 80% on a daily basis. LFP is great and all, but you can't escape physics when it comes to repeatedly charging and discharging a batter of any chemistry...
• Over time with battery degradation your usable capacity (and thus range) are going to decrease. This will happen faster as you're cycling so aggressively. Look at home power storage solutions as an example - they generally warrant a capacity (70%-80% after 10 years depending on manufacturer) based on 1 cycle per day of 80% capacity *See footnote

If you're only keeping the car for 3 years or so (eg on a lease) then the degradation stuff probably doesn't matter so much.


*Footnote:
No doubt there will be some haters on this, but everyone is being lead to believe that LFP is magically superior to NMC when it comes to high states of charge. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that whilst LFP is better than NMC, it's certainly not immune to the negative effects of high states of charge.
A car is also way more harsh for a battery than home storage. You have physical conditions such as greater temperature swings, vibration, etc, but you also have higher discharge rates. Home battery storage is discharging at 1-2x the rated capacity of the cells. In a car you could be discharging at > 3x the rated capacity of the cells. There's a reason cars require active heating/cooling systems for their batteries

 

[wattmatters]

No doubt there will be some haters on this, but everyone is being lead to believe that LFP is magically superior to NMC when it comes to high states of charge. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that whilst LFP is better than NMC, it's certainly not immune to the negative effects of high states of charge.

No hate, just comment.

LFP is more robust, there is little doubt about that. But I think we can expect either chemistry to outlive the car.

A car is also way more harsh for a battery than home storage.

Not necessarily.

Most EV drive batteries are discharging at pretty modest rates (circa 0.2 C) and typically charging at even lower C rates (0.1C or less). They also have pretty good thermal management systems and they are cycled way less than home batteries typically are.

This is the cycling of my home lithium (LFP) battery over the last month:

Compare that with the cycling of our EV:

Which is getting worked harder?