Thanks, Paulie. I don't think I could keep to 60mph without falling asleep so seems like I'll have to get a good book for the charging sessions! I wish I'd read more before committing to the buy but range aside, I'm very happy so far. I just wish there were more charging stations that didn't require you to get yet another App. So far, Swarco and InstaVolt I'm happy with. Ecotricity all seem to be broken or REALLY low KW.
Although, the ZS range is good for most of my usage, I do occasionally yearn for a sweet spot range of 200 miles or so in winter, with heating on, at 70mph. For that you need about an 80kWh (usable) battery.
Although, the ZS range is good for most of my usage, I do occasionally yearn for a sweet spot range of 200 miles or so in winter, with heating on, at 70mph. For that you need about an 80kWh (usable) battery.
No, that's not going to happen. It's not something SAIC are going to bother with.
Most quoted figures in marketing literature have an asterisk against the range with an explanation that it's the WLTP/EPA/NEDC test cycle.
Buying an ICE car, people don't need to do as much research. I doubt the available range on a full tank of fuel even occurs to people ahead of buying. And though it's obvious, I doubt people would care that the range on a full tank will also vary (with the same factors as an EV).
So it's no surprise that some people are going to get caught out by the range figures when buying an EV unless they do some research.
But just a bit of research gets you the information about WLTP/EPA/NEDC test cycle ranges vs real world range and I would hope that anyone spending more than, say, £500 on anything is going to check out what they are buying. Especially when buying an EV because everyone knows that range is more of a factor.
I hope I'm typical in that before buying an EV, I watched numerous YouTube videos by channels such as EV Man and Fully Charged so that I knew pretty well what I was getting in to.
And though it was a PITA at the time, the 6 months wait for delivery of my EV back in 2017 meant that I had the time to install a wall charger and do even more research into the pros and cons of EV ownership ahead of time.
Research is fun, isn't it? If you're interested in what you're buying?
As for having 200 miles real world range, then I think you're looking at something like a Kona or Kia e-Niro as the best bang for buck, still. And they are well over £30k new.
Or maybe a second hand Model S. £30,000 will get you a Tesla Model S 85D with over 250 miles real world range. Or a second hand Kia E-Niro with similar range for £26.5k.
Neither are the low £20k you can buy a ZS EV or MG5 for, though.
How do you figure out the WLPT range you need if you're long distance driving a lot?
It's a personal thing, but for me the ideal real world range is about 233 miles since I have to stop for a pee after about 140 miles and recharging 20% to 80% means 140 is 60% of 233.
Which means that the WLTP figure of the car I want is about 275 miles. 233 being about 85% of 275.
I created a Google spreadsheet which allows you to enter the number of miles/kilometers that you can drive before needing a break. The sheet then calculates the approximate real world EV range needed to comfortably drive this distance. And then calculates the approximate range quoted by...
I've found the range really good, but I absolutely knew what to expect and thoroughly put it through it's paces on my test drive.
Winter is tough on range. The air is denser and batteries are less efficient as well as cabin heating using a fair whack of your energy. High speed also massively hits your rang because air resistance increases at the square of velocity. Sticking to 70 will save you something in the order of 20% of the energy of covering the same distance at 80, and cutting your speed to 60 will save you another 20%.
The simple truth is that 140 miles is the actual winter motorway range (although 160 is easily achievable at 65mph if you need to). However, the summer city range could almost double that. It's just physics. The trouble is that most car salesmen don't have a clue about it.
If you buy a tesla long range that does say 360 miles or whatever it is, does it only do that if you drive 50mph? Or does it only do 280 if you drive at 70mph?
So - I have a Model 3 performance. it struggles to get 200 usable miles at 70mph (ish). No EV at the moment likes sustained high speed or cold temperatures.
Dean, if you're saying you are driving at 10 per cent above the speed limit, it's no surprise you are getting such low range, but it's not clear from what you say, so apologies if I'm misreprentting that.
For what it's worth, I kept a record of my mileage from my last charge to full to balance the battery, and my 5 covered 173 down to 10 per cent, so heading for an overall 194/5 miles. Admittedly none of that was motorway driving, just short trips under ten miles in the main, mostly with a couple of notches of heating and outside temperature down to zero, never more than plus 10.
On my only long trip to Heathrow and back on the M1, at about 60/65 mph, the car was showing about 3.3/3.4 miles per kWh, about 170 miles range overall.
Can't wait for better weather and the legal opportunity to stretch the car's legs further to get a more accurate idea of range, so far only 750 miles in 10 weeks
I’ve never had an ICE car that got anywhere near on average the published MPG (remember Miles per gallon). I am surprised at how naive some purchasers are expecting the published range to be achieved all the time. I’ve said this before in a post but at motorway speeds of around 70mph in cold weather with heat on if you achieve 3mkh you’re doing ok. If you use this as a rule of thumb; Tesla published 325mile range 75kwh battery - say 70ish usable = 210miles. ZS say 40kwh useable = 120miles MG5 say 47kwh usable =141miles. All these can be drastically improved (or reduced) based on usage, temperature etc. I get 4mkh in summer (not motorway speeds). So Tesla 280miles is achievable, ZS 160+ achievable.
I'm not really interested in discussing the legality as such, but many motorway drivers on long journeys do significantly more than the legal speed limit. Bearing in mind that the MG real life ranges are already nowhere near their quoted range, does anyone know what the effect is of faster driving? e.g. 80, 85, 90?
I'm not really interested in discussing the legality as such, but many motorway drivers on long journeys do significantly more than the legal speed limit. Bearing in mind that the MG real life ranges are already nowhere near their quoted range, does anyone know what the effect is of faster driving? e.g. 80, 85, 90?
I'm not really interested in discussing the legality as such, but many motorway drivers on long journeys do significantly more than the legal speed limit. Bearing in mind that the MG real life ranges are already nowhere near their quoted range, does anyone know what the effect is of faster driving? e.g. 80, 85, 90?
If we assume you need to be doing around 60mph to get close to quoted range. As air resistance increases with speed squared you are doubling the drag by doing 85mph so I would imagine the range will be falling pretty dramatically by that point. Quick number crunch and I reckon going from 60 to 85 will take anything from a quarter to a third off the range.
That's fine, of course, but EV range will reduce significantly as a result. This is one of the biggest gripes of changing from ICE to EV. Its a shame manufacturers don't give a range figure for cold weather, high speed motorway use, that way people would have more realistic expectations.
I'm not really interested in discussing the legality as such, but many motorway drivers on long journeys do significantly more than the legal speed limit. Bearing in mind that the MG real life ranges are already nowhere near their quoted range, does anyone know what the effect is of faster driving? e.g. 80, 85, 90?
So. My experiences about motorway speeds are that there are quite a few drivers who will drive up to 90mph. It becomes the unwritten norm. You won’t be able to sit at 70mph in lane 3 on most motorways without being pushed to get out the way - not that you should sit in the lane anyway of course. I am not speaking for myself (of course) but I know someone who regularly ( pre-COVID) travelled for business and regularly did motorway trips at around 80 - 90 mph. He used to get 2 to 2.5mpk. At times below 2. So a real life M3P range was around 140miles for him. In the ZS it would have been around 70miles.
Hi, I've done 1000 miles in my new MG5 EV and I love it, that said I'm coming from a clapped out 307. What I am annoyed at however, is the exaggeration over range. The EV range and my SatNav have very different opinions. It is no exaggeration to say that the MG range in miles is much closer to KM. I'm not a particularly fast driver, keeping to well within 10% of limits and not accelerating quickly at all. And even when in Eco mode with full KERS, it is shockingly bad. Tonight I had 142miles of range in ECO mode for a100 mile journey. Easy, right?! I got to where the range mileage and SatNav distance remaining were both 18 miles, and had to get a charge. And from my 1000 miles experience that is about the size of it. Range is closer to KM than miles. Disappointing but a lovely car. I bought it for the 200 mile range but it's closer to 150. Shame and I feel cheated. Plus the roofbars which I found out about after collecting the car :-(
Dean
Having read all the replies above and if you can get your head around the workings "sums" that you see on this thread (and others) and one or two appear to be saying its you fault for not investigating EV enough.
I think the dealer has stitch you up and saw you as naïve and took advantage. A really poor customer service, just think what sort of confidence you'll have when and NOT IF you go back for a problem?
Take it back as you were sold a vehicle not as describe, go to Citizens' Advice or the council trading standards. Get a refund and buy an ICE at least for a couple of years unless you want to be a BETA tester for EV cars
If we assume you need to be doing around 60mph to get close to quoted range. As air resistance increases with speed squared you are doubling the drag by doing 85mph so I would imagine the range will be falling pretty dramatically by that point. Quick number crunch and I reckon going from 60 to 85 will take anything from a quarter to a third off the range.
So. My experiences about motorway speeds are that there are quite a few drivers who will drive up to 90mph. It becomes the unwritten norm. You won’t be able to sit at 70mph in lane 3 on most motorways without being pushed to get out the way - not that you should sit in the lane anyway of course. I am not speaking for myself (of course) but I know someone who regularly ( pre-COVID) travelled for business and regularly did motorway trips at around 80 - 90 mph. He used to get 2 to 2.5mpk. At times below 2. So a real life M3P range was around 140miles for him. In the ZS it would have been around 70miles.
Dean
Having read all the replies above and if you can get your head around the workings "sums" that you see on this thread (and others) and one or two appear to be saying its you fault for not investigating EV enough.
I think the dealer has stitch you up and saw you as naïve and took advantage. A really poor customer service, just think what sort of confidence you'll have when and NOT IF you go back for a problem?
Take it back as you were sold a vehicle not as describe, go to Citizens' Advice or the council trading standards. Get a refund and buy an ICE at least for a couple of years unless you want to be a BETA tester for EV cars
Interesting viewpoint. I may have missed this but Dean doesn’t actually say that his dealer misled him or told him he would categorically get the range - I’m not sure where his range expectations came from - perhaps the published figures? But his dealer may be blameless here. As far as seeing Dean as naive and ‘stitching him up’, well that again is a huge assumption to make. I do think that the current benchmark that the industry uses to get range needs looking at but it is a benchmark that all manufacturers currently use and Dean also alludes to this. I have never encountered a dealer that has categorically told me that I will get the published range figures come rain or shine but others may disagree. I do feel for Dean and I hope he perseveres with his car which he says he really likes - they are a good car. As far as being a beta tester for EV cars - I’ve had EV’s for 5 Years now and really enjoyed the beta testing experience so far. ?
The only lorries that can exceed 60 mph on motorways are those that are not more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight. These are the light trucks you can drive on a car licence.
I’ve never had an ICE car that got anywhere near on average the published MPG (remember Miles per gallon). I am surprised at how naive some purchasers are expecting the published range to be achieved all the time. I’ve said this before in a post but at motorway speeds of around 70mph in cold weather with heat on if you achieve 3mkh you’re doing ok. If you use this as a rule of thumb; Tesla published 325mile range 75kwh battery - say 70ish usable = 210miles. ZS say 40kwh useable = 120miles MG5 say 47kwh usable =141miles. All these can be drastically improved (or reduced) based on usage, temperature etc. I get 4mkh in summer (not motorway speeds). So Tesla 280miles is achievable, ZS 160+ achievable.
I don't think mpg matters so much though when you have a 10+ gallon fuel tank.
My Prius was advertised at 89mpg under the old NEDC figures, with a 43 litre tank theoretically I could go 840 miles. Real world short trips (or 70 on the motorway) made my actual mpg figure nearer 55mpg so real distance on a tank full was 520 miles, a 40% difference.
40% difference only becomes a problem for us EV owners because we don't have the large capacity like an ICE car does. If the figures quoted are 160 miles range then -40% would be less than 100 miles hence the worry.
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