Poor efficiency (or is it just the cold?)

[MG4 Aussie owner]

Hard to say without knowing the route but this could be normal.

Remember during short trips the battery won't heat up properly so you can get efficiencies this low. The intelligent battery heating may help.

Unfortunately in colder countries the range will reduce more and the battery chemistry choice matters more.

I live in Australia and my MG4 is less than 6 months old and done less than 10,000 km. When I first bought it and did just over 360km on a trickle charge. Now it doesn’t go over 250km. It doesn’t get below 10 degrees celsius here, and no more than 2 months.
I’ve reset the odometer (no change in distance shown) and changed it to eco with the air con off. When I put the heating on I lose roughly 10-15km distance.
I get that the temperature in your area of the world would affect the battery quite significantly but I’m concerned it’s losing a 100km here in Australia. Any thoughts?

 

[tsedge]

I live in Australia and my MG4 is less than 6 months old and done less than 10,000 km. When I first bought it and did just over 360km on a trickle charge. Now it doesn’t go over 250km. It doesn’t get below 10 degrees celsius here, and no more than 2 months.
I’ve reset the odometer and changed it to eco with the air con off. When I put the heating on I lose roughly 10-15km distance.
I get that the temperature in your area of the world would affect the battery quite significantly but I’m concerned it’s losing a 100km here in Australia. Any thoughts?

It looks like you have the SR car. This will typically give 250-300km in the real world.

Is that you don't have the actual range of just the predicted range on the Guessometer? (GOM). The GOM will vary according to your driving style and speeds and try to predict the range. If you reset the Odometer it will reset to the factory prediction, but you may well struggle to get well over 300km unless you drive slowly on ECO mode - Edit: sounds like you have tried this already.

Again, assuming you have the SR, are you giving it a full 100% charge every week with time for balancing the battery? This is recommended for an accurate range prediction.

 

[Rolfe]

Hmmm. Was this a sudden change, or has it been gradual over your ownership? I take it yours is the 51 kwh battery? If I'm right about that, the nominal WLPT rating is 350 km, so you were doing well to be seeing 360 km, as the WLPT rating is something of an idealised scenario.

250 km is however on the high range of what I'd see for my car here in winter, and I wouldn't be surprised if your 10-degree temperatures were the main cause of what you're seeing. I was getting tired of seeing 230 to 240 km in the same situation in winter when the temperatures were just a little lower than that, maybe 6 or 7 degrees. But then when the temperature came back up to 20 or so, hey presto, 330 km again. So it could just be a matter of waiting for warmer temperatures.

The other issue is your right foot. Enjoying the car's performance is going to put a crimp in your fuel economy without a doubt, and it will show in your projected range. But what the hell? Electricity is a damn sight cheaper than petrol, so my motto is don't sweat it, just go with the flow. Warm temperatures and driving like Miss Daisy will bring the range back up. You can't do anything about the former, and while you can do something about the latter, do you actually want to?

I merged the new thread in with this thread, so we can keep all the discussion together.

 

[MG4 Aussie owner]

It looks like you have the SR car. This will typically give 250-300km in the real world.

Is that you don't have the actual range of just the predicted range on the Guessometer? (GOM). The GOM will vary according to your driving style and speeds and try to predict the range. If you reset the Odometer it will reset to the factory prediction, but you may well struggle to get well over 300km unless you drive slowly on ECO mode - Edit: sounds like you have tried this already.

Again, assuming you have the SR, are you giving it a full 100% charge every week with time for balancing the battery? This is recommended for an accurate range prediction.

I live in country Australia (vast distances) so I have to charge the car at least twice a week from nearly empty (on or below 10%) to full. I’ve only used a DC charger 3 times. This happened abruptly two weeks ago, but it has been getting cold. I drive to the speed limits 90% but do over take quickly. I live on open country roads where the speed limit is 100km/h. Honestly I usually use the auto speed setting on the steering wheel to get me to speed as I’m pretty lazy and I also want to see if it makes a difference in the range. Any comments appreciated ?

Hmmm. Was this a sudden change, or has it been gradual over your ownership? I take it yours is the 51 kwh battery? If I'm right about that, the nominal WLPT rating is 350 km, so you were doing well to be seeing 360 km, as the WLPT rating is something of an idealised scenario.

250 km is however on the high range of what I'd see for my car here in winter, and I wouldn't be surprised if your 10-degree temperatures were the main cause of what you're seeing. I was getting tired of seeing 230 to 240 km in the same situation in winter when the temperatures were just a little lower than that, maybe 6 or 7 degrees. But then when the temperature came back up to 20 or so, hey presto, 330 km again. So it could just be a matter of waiting for warmer temperatures.

The other issue is your right foot. Enjoying the car's performance is going to put a crimp in your fuel economy without a doubt, and it will show in your projected range. But what the hell? Electricity is a damn sight cheaper than petrol, so my motto is don't sweat it, just go with the flow. Warm temperatures and driving like Miss Daisy will bring the range back up. You can't do anything about the former, and while you can do something about the latter, do you actually want to?

I merged the new thread in with this thread, so we can keep all the discussion together.

It was sudden. I had 360km then boom 250km (if I’m lucky). I’ve booked it in as it’s still under warranty. I let you guys know the outcome. I’ll try heating the battery up today while charging it before I use it.

 

[Rolfe]

I think @tsedge is underplaying the SR's capabilities. Yes in a Scottish winter 250 km is only to be expected, but I'm seeing 330 even in Scotland now we're seeing some summer temperatures (18-20 degrees).

It's odd to see that "boom" effect unless the weather has also gone boom at the same time. (I've never used the battery heating at all, I have to say. I'm not sure it's worth the electricity it consumes.) Also, unless you suddenly changed your driving habits, that's not consistent with the "boom" thing either.

If you're charging a couple of times a week from under 10% to full and letting the cells balance once the car is full, then the GOM should be absolutely perfectly calibrated, so it can't be that.

It could just be the temperature, but get it checked. Things do go wrong with batteries, but it should be easy enough for the dealer to tell if there's a genuine issue. If there isn't, it will put your mind at rest and you'll know the range will recover when the weather warms up.

 

[MG4 Aussie owner]

I live in country Australia (vast distances) so I have to charge the car at least twice a week from nearly empty (on or below 10%) to full. I’ve only used a DC charger 3 times. This happened abruptly two weeks ago, but it has been getting cold. I drive to the speed limits 90% but do over take quickly. I live on open country roads where the speed limit is 100km/h. Honestly I usually use the auto speed setting on the steering wheel to get me to speed as I’m pretty lazy and I also want to see if it makes a difference in the range. Any comments appreciated ?

360km was the real world experience. I’ve driven to golf courses that were exactly 350km Flinders to Phillip Island and back had 4% left. This road also on average speeds is no slower of 100km/h for 85% of the trip.It has only just dropped to 250km in the last two weeks it has always had 360km as long as I did

 

[Rolfe]

Can you check the weather records to see if there has been a sudden drop in temperature where you are? It would be the time of year for it.

One of the things you learn with the SR battery is that a journey that was just doable in summer is going to need an extra charge in winter. I was very definite with my dealer that my regular round trip to the theatre (150 km) had to be doable "in the depths of winter, in freezing temperatures, at motorway speeds and with the heating on". Otherwise I might have gone for the LR - though in fact what I didn't know when we had that conversation was that there are destination chargers in the car park I always use on these trips, so I'd have been OK anyway. Well, he assured me it would be fine (even though he was trying to persuade me to buy the LR at the time!) and he was right.

I drive south into England fairly regularly, and I've established (now that the motorway service stations actually have decent chargers!) that while I can get as far as Forton in the summer (250 km) I have to charge at Tebay in winter (190 km). That may sound rather short, but this is basically belting down the motorway as fast as I can get away with. If I drove like Miss Daisy I'd get further, and maybe cut out one charge on the 720 km drive to the south coast of England, but where's the fun in that?

Anyway, if it's just the temperature that's causing your problem, you need destination chargers at these golf courses.

 

[MG4 Aussie owner]

We have speed cameras everywhere here in Australia so I’ve very rarely do over a 100km/h. I’ve traveled in the UK and Europe and “belting it is far faster than I drive here in Australia (as a 150km/h wasn’t a rare experience over there ?). The temperature has dropped but on average only 10 degrees Celsius.
I’m getting it checked on Wednesday and I’ll tell this thread what the outcome is.

 

[Rolfe]

You're lucky to have a dealer who will give you an appointment so promptly.

 

[MG4 Aussie owner]

The up take in EV’s in Australia has been very, very slow. I haven’t even seen another MG electric car. I’m hoping that will work in my favour…. They won’t want any negative coverage here in Australia. That’s why I can get in so quickly.
We have to travel what Europeans call extremely long distances. That’s why hybrids are big here.

 

[Rolfe]

I've read that they're really starting to take off now though.

 

[MG4 Aussie owner]

Not really. The right wing media over here is full of s$&t. Anti global warming and anything to do with it….
The two main arguments I hear is resale value and lies about distance that the cars make.

If I worked in Melbourne I would’ve bought this car thinking it would make it there and back on a single charge, after being told how far it goes on a full charge. If I then find out it can be a 100km less when it gets cold I’d be EXTREMELY pissed off. I hope it’s an issue with the battery ?

I've read that they're really starting to take off now though.

Just another question. In Australia we’re not allowed to “discharge” from our batteries (though they are trailing it in Canberra, the Australian Capital Territory.
I am uncertain what you mean by “balancing the battery.” Could you please explain this to me.

 

[Rolfe]

It's what the battery will do for about 30-35 minutes if it's left plugged in after getting to 100% on AC. It's probably happening without you realising it. It only draws about 20 watts most of the time while that's happening. If there's any reason that hasn't been happening, say you always stop the charge or unplug as soon as it hits 100%, well stop doing that and let it balance. But it's probably been doing it all the time.

I really don't remember how I knew about the winter loss of range before I bought my car. It all happened in a bit of a rush. I was told on 31st March that my insurance company wanted to write off my previous car, which had been in a fender-bender caused by a careless BMW driver, but was 14 years old and had other bodywork damage. I spent that evening and a few more watching YouTube videos about EVs, and specifically about the MG4 once the penny had dropped that it was exactly what I wanted. I went to the dealer for a test drive and ordered the car only eight days later, so in that time I'd absorbed enough to be very clear that I wanted the thing to do a winter run of 100 miles with headroom to spare without having to drive to conserve range. Since the official WLTP range is 218 miles, I must have been aware there was a significant shortfall in winter.

Those quoted ranges are deceptive, just like quoted mpg figures are deceptive for ICE cars - maybe ICE cars are a bit worse, because I think you have to work harder to get the quoted mpg on your average ICE car than you do to get the WLTP range on an EV. But it's a bit of an idealised scenario in both cases, more useful for comparing cars than for its absolute value. The other thing, of course, is that you don't want to be arriving home (or at your destination) on 0% - rather less so than you want to be arriving driving on fumes in an ICE car. It's just more hassle to get rescued because you can't just go get a bucket of electrons, and even if you can plug in your granny charger where you run out, it's going to take an hour or two to get enough to get going. So you have to budget for maybe 10% leeway just in case. (There's also the issue that if you're charging on a DC charger you won't want to charge all the way to 100% because it takes too long. I find 85% on the SR is about where my patience starts to wear a bit thin.)

I find the SR very easy to live with, because I pretty much never have to drive more than about 130 miles in a day unless I'm on a road trip. It can do that without breaking sweat, even in winter, so range isn't something that concerns me on a day to day basis. My best advice if you're finding the practical range a bit short, especially in colder weather, is to try to find an AC charger at your destination to boost your charge and give you the extra mileage you need to get home.

 

[MG4 Aussie owner]

Thanks for your quick responses ??
I’ve only used a DC charger 3 times. I have a huge amount of solar and battery at my house and there isn’t a DC charger within 70km of my house. 95% of my trips are within 20km. I charge my car with an installed charger on the side of my house. When I charge it is plugged in for hours after it reaches a 100% because I do it when I sleep. If I do a long trip I’ll trickle charge it for nearly two days depending on how low the charge I have (I have a second car for towing and surfing that I use when I do this). I did a trickle charge 4 days ago and there was no difference.
This has just started happening in the last week and a half and it hasn’t been any colder and I haven’t done a DC charge for over a month. Where I live (Victoria) we have had 3 days when the weather was 16°C while this happened.
Any ideas you have I’d be more than happy to try.
I’ll give you an update when I get an update from The service team Wednesday night hopefully.

 

[Rolfe]

There's no way this is a calibration issue because you've done it all right. Given that this is so sudden and that it's still been present when the temperature is as high as 16 (that's warm in my book) it's looking more and more like a battery issue. Not something I've ever encountered, Caliban's battery seems to be fine, but at least if it is that it's well covered by the warranty and they'll have to fix it or replace it.

I mean, I was watching what was going on all winter, and I don't think I ever saw less than 145 miles (that's 230 km) when it was really cold (around freezing or lower) and I was doing multiple 3-mile runs, heating the cabin before each one. (I had multiple activities in the village hall of the village 3 miles away, on consecutive nights. And I don't like getting into a cold car.) I don't think you could get worse conditions for poor economy unless you actually went to Norway or Finland. Even then, if I did a longer run it would pick up to maybe 160 miles (255 km) even though it was still cold. And it's the same car, the same battery as yours.

 

[Coulomb]

Where I live (Victoria) we have had 3 days when the weather was 16°C while this happened.

I assume that's the maximum temperature. We've had a few early mornings at 4°C minimum here in suburban Brisbane.

The battery, having a large thermal mass, will be sensitive to the average daily temperature.

Range and efficiency will improve as the average temperature rises in spring.

 

[Rolfe]

Well, maybe, but the story isn't really typical of how the MG4 SE SR behaves with seasonal variation. I think he's right to get the dealer to take a look.

 

[MG4 Aussie owner]

It looks like you have the SR car. This will typically give 250-300km in the real world.

Is that you don't have the actual range of just the predicted range on the Guessometer? (GOM). The GOM will vary according to your driving style and speeds and try to predict the range. If you reset the Odometer it will reset to the factory prediction, but you may well struggle to get well over 300km unless you drive slowly on ECO mode - Edit: sounds like you have tried this already.

Again, assuming you have the SR, are you giving it a full 100% charge every week with time for balancing the battery? This is recommended for an accurate range prediction.

It wasn’t the battery and it also turns out it had nothing to do with the temperature.
I just had it put in today and all sorted at MG service under warranty.
Diagnosis : There was a bunch of modules that required software updates. I’m now getting 30km more on a full charge than when I first bought it. It has been cold down here getting down to 4°C a couple of times at night. But that had nothing to do with it. It’s 8 1/2 hours for them to figure it out and charge it to 75% just to make sure.
So people if you haven’t taken your car in for a service and have lost significant distance chances it’s this. I posted a copy from the MG service showing the description.
Good luck.

 

[MG4 Aussie owner]

PS when you book your car in make sure your cars first car going in to the service shop, and show them about these updates, also make sure you get a loan car. Because it’s going to take all day.

 

[siteguru]

This worked for you, but it is likely not the solution in every case.