Range decrease due to cold weather [merged thread]

[Rolfe]

The chances of me slowing down on a motorway voluntarily are not good. I'd have to be terrified. (OK, I did do Kirkby Lonsdale to Tebay at a steady 50 one night, but I was actually terrified. I think that car went 35 miles past zero on the GOM that night. And it's not as if it hadn't happened before either, except that time I knew I'd never even make Tebay and ended up sneaking into Burton-in-Kendal from the north via a service road. Against a No Entry sign.) Of course if pressure of traffic holds me back, all bets are off. But I think if I stop at Carlisle I'll probably want to stop at Kirkby Lonsdale as well. I do not fancy driving the A65 with range anxiety.

Common sense says stop at Carlisle and aim to stop again at Kirkby Lonsdale. That is safe. Even if Kirkby Lonsdale was trouble for some reason, if I went high enough at Carlisle I could make Skipton without getting too hot under the collar. Carlisle has 12 chargers, and as far as I can see doesn't tend to be terribly congested because it's also close to Gretna which takes a lot of the pressure off. And there are four chargers at Kirkby Lonsdale, and it's generally less busy than Penrith anyway. It's six miles off the motorway, whereas Penrith is right on the motorway.

The thought of only having to stop once, at a charger that can potentially give my car its maximum charging speed (though I dunno, if both are in use together), is so so tempting. I really shouldn't.

Of course if the roads are really congested I might get much better fuel economy than I expect.

Once I've done this once I'll have a much better handle on the real world of how this works in winter.

 

[hharzel]

Do you have any OBD-II readings to show the temperature of the battery after pre heat? And long it takes before the IBH intervenes?

No. But I noticed this morning that it takes surprisingly long for the battery to warm up enough to the point of "Battery does not need to be heated" message in iSmart app: about one and a quarter hour (it takes only 20-25 minutes to drive to work). SoC dropped 8% during that time. It was -15°C outside.

I can pre-heat the battery from mains at work but not at home, so does it make sense to pre-heat the battery using battery, or should I just let the battery warm up during driving? The most important thing is to maximize its lifespan. Nothing else matters because I don't do long trips.

 

[fnegroni]

No. But I noticed this morning that it takes surprisingly long for the battery to warm up enough to the point of "Battery does not need to be heated" message in iSmart app: about one and a quarter hour (it takes only 20-25 minutes to drive to work). SoC dropped 8% during that time. It was -15°C outside.

I can pre-heat the battery from mains at work but not at home, so does it make sense to pre-heat the battery using battery, or should I just let the battery warm up during driving? The most important thing is to maximize its lifespan. Nothing else matters because I don't do long trips.

At -15, I can’t really say whether the battery will warm up enough on a 20 minute journey.
But, if you could read the battery temperature, I wonder if it’s sufficient to bring its temp to above freezing. Would have to look into the cost benefit.
Warning it up using the pre heat for 40 minutes will probably bring it to above 0 degrees and use half the power. Then the drive to work will warm it up even further.

 

[fnegroni]

I did an experiment tonight.
Ambient temperature 7C. Battery temperature 8.5C
I hit the start heating button on the app and the app started the battery heating. So I stopped the heating and started the car.
The car’s intelligent battery heating came on.
The battery temperature PID from OBD-II reports the battery temperature and the battery heater water temperature at alternating intervals
The minimum battery temperature PID reports the actual battery temperature.
A few minutes later The water in the heater reaches 32C and I can still hear the battery heater and pump working.
I stop the battery heater through the energy consumption screen in the car.
A minute or so later the battery temperature rises to 10.5C
I used just under 500W
I lock the car. Go to the app and the app says the battery pack doesn’t need heating.

Presumably because the battery has reached 10C.

 

[dawson2099]

Just back from 450 mile trip. GOM dropped by 10 miles when I reset as suggested. Summer 3.6 miles/kW. Today 12C 3.5 m/kW in ECO mode. I did pre-heat battery for 30 mins. Just FYI.

 

[dawson2099]

I did a battery/range test on the way home from work today, just out of curiosity. Don't have exact numbers or % but at approx 5% with 9 miles left (after having earlier warnings) it limited power on me. Awkward as I was on a flat 40 road and couldn't top 26. I then got some regen benefit and with 6 range range I started the remaining 3.3 miles journey along the coast near Brighton. Again it flashed a message and limited me on an incline 40 road to just 17 which could have been dodgy but for the rainy conditions and people driving a bit slower (luckily). I then took a quiet side road and plodded along and on the final stretch (again an incline) decided to pull over to let people by before finally racing driveway. Audi e-tron was more composed in similar situation and could easily do 30 with similar % etc. Needless to say, I'll be recharging at 10% minimum now but at least I know what happens.

Not sure I would be brave enough to do that but got to 11% coming home today. Message "Power limited - limiting power". Is this normal? Car continued but not very responsive.

 

[Rolfe]

I've been down to 9% a couple of times and to 4% once, and didn't get that.

It did ask me if I wanted to go into power-limiting mode, but I told it to shut up and keep going, I knew what I was doing, and it obeyed without any back-chat. Overtook someone at 80 while on 5% charge. No discernable power loss. (I was 2 miles from home at the time!)

 

[JannerKebab]

I normally charge my MG4 Trophy to 80% and at the end of the month carry out 100% balancing charge. Carried this out yesterday and my range as reduced to 196 miles at 100%. Not sure whats going on. When I got the car new in June it was at 100% with a range of 280 miles. Normally I have at least 250 miles range when fully charged. Anybody else have a range drop off?

 

[Martinonline]

Yes. This weather I assume 2 times the percentage. It will go up again when the weather is warmer.

 

[Themist0]

I’m getting 2 miles per percentage at the moment, the GOM seems pretty accurate

 

[Rolfe]

That's a hell of a drop though. My SR is down to about 150 miles from a summer range of about 200 miles, and the LFP battery is supposed to be more severely affected by this than the NMC, which the Trophy has.

 

[Themist0]

I guess that’s the joy of owning an EV, for me not a problem as my longest journey is only about 80 miles return, so just charge a little more often. It’s still a great car and fun to drive and charging at home is so simple and easier than ICE cars… I might change my mind if I ever need a rapid charge ?

 

[fnegroni]

I normally charge my MG4 Trophy to 80% and at the end of the month carry out 100% balancing charge. Carried this out yesterday and my range as reduced to 196 miles at 100%. Not sure whats going on. When I got the car new in June it was at 100% with a range of 280 miles. Normally I have at least 250 miles range when fully charged. Anybody else have a range drop off?

Can you take a picture of your accumulated mileage and the consumption over your last few trips?
Do you preheat the battery and/or cabin while on charge or using the HV battery alone?
Do you preheat at all? What’s the ambient temperature and what do you set the cabin temperature to?
Do you drive in sport, normal or eco? Is that a/c running in eco mode? (The eco stuff won’t make much difference if you are heavy footed mind you)
Do you mostly drive in town or motorway?

These are the sort of things that need to be considered when answering your question and would provide the forum with a more qualified question and answers.

 

[Jomarkh]

I normally charge my MG4 Trophy to 80% and at the end of the month carry out 100% balancing charge. Carried this out yesterday and my range as reduced to 196 miles at 100%. Not sure whats going on. When I got the car new in June it was at 100% with a range of 280 miles. Normally I have at least 250 miles range when fully charged. Anybody else have a range drop off?

It is quite normal to lose 25-35% in range as the temperature drops.
If you want a factory GOM figure reset your trip counters, put into eco and turn heater and fan off.

 

[tsedge]

I normally charge my MG4 Trophy to 80% and at the end of the month carry out 100% balancing charge. Carried this out yesterday and my range as reduced to 196 miles at 100%. Not sure whats going on. When I got the car new in June it was at 100% with a range of 280 miles. Normally I have at least 250 miles range when fully charged. Anybody else have a range drop off?

This is nornal in winter due to lower temperatures (lowers battery capacity) and higher consumption (heating the car). 30% range drop in winter is typical, depending on the local climate.

Mine is giving me the same predicted range of around 200 miles but driving efficiently I can get more if I need it.

The reality is though, I hardly ever drive that far, so the decreasing range is not a problem.

 

[WonkoTheSaneUK]

As others have said, welcome to winter.

 

[tsedge]

Indeed, I have to say that overall range is much less relevant if you can charge at home. I think the SR battery would have been enough for my needs, however, we did want the Trophy spec, which isn't available in the UK without the LR battery.

The first thing that my friends bring up when they ask about life with an EV is range. One said to me the other day they "had to have" 280 miles to cover a round trip dropping/collecting offspring to university that they do 6 times a year.

When I questioned "why can't you stop for a break to recharge for 30 minutes?", they had no answer. Of course they could, the journey wasn't time critical. But they had in their mind that they had to do this without charging/stopping because that's what they normally did.

All of this was making them focus on expensive ER cars - and the uni trip needs will only exist for another 2 years anyway.

There's a lot of fear of range out there because of ignorance about how easy it is to charge en-route.

 

[NewMG4me]

Indeed, I have to say that overall range is much less relevant if you can charge at home. I think the SR battery would have been enough for my needs, however, we did want the Trophy spec, which isn't available in the UK without the LR battery.

The first thing that my friends bring up when they ask about life with an EV is range. One said to me the other day they "had to have" 280 miles to cover a round trip dropping/collecting offspring to university that they do 6 times a year.

When I questioned "why can't you stop for a break to recharge for 30 minutes?", they had no answer. Of course they could, the journey wasn't time critical. But they had in their mind that they had to do this without charging/stopping because that's what they normally did.

All of this was making them focus on expensive ER cars - and the uni trip needs will only exist for another 2 years anyway.

There's a lot of fear of range out there because of ignorance about how easy it is to charge en-route.

I always tell people to think of the car like their phone - charge when you can. It may not be the cheapest to use public fast charges but they are fast (comparatively - they will never be as fast as filling up with petrol/diesel). When I take/retrieve child 2 from Uni, I can do it on one charge and get home with 20% in summer, but in winter I would rather stop for a coffee and charge a bit just to have the extra in the battery.

 

[JannerKebab]

This is nornal in winter due to lower temperatures (lowers battery capacity) and higher consumption (heating the car). 30% range drop in winter is typical, depending on the local climate.

Mine is giving me the same predicted range of around 200 miles but driving efficiently I can get more if I need it.

The reality is though, I hardly ever drive that far, so the decreasing range is not a problem.

Thanks for all the replies, looks like it’s the norm. Was a bit worried the car went in at the beginning of November with a faulty charge control unit.

 

[dave3005]

Yep seems normal. Just to confirm mine also is under 200 miles at the mo from 100% too. I do preheat car for 10mins everyday as well which apparently makes your mileage look much worse. It basically drops 10miles each time I do it from predicted range lol.