Regen Increases Tyre Wear....or does it?

[Bricktop X PWR]

(Quite Long, Dont Read if you are time poor)


Simple statement really and to be honest, I'm not sure that I really subscribed to it.

But let me tell you....I do now. (Probably)

I know this had been touched on in various threads but thought I would start a dedicated discussion.

(Mod, please tack on if another thread exists. Did a search and came up blank)

I was fairly alarmed recently at the rate my X Power is consuming its rubber.

The tyres have done 9000 miles since they were fitted and the rear tyres are already down to 4mm.

I usually change at 3mm so reckon I have at best, 4 months and 3 to 4000 miles remaining.

To give me the best chance of achieving this target, I have put the rear tyres on the front of the car.

The fronts were on 6mm. (Now on the rear)

I do this with all my cars as I prefer to change an entire set of 4 tyres at the same time.

When I come to change them, I expect them to all be on 2 to 3mm.

If I get 13000 miles out of the set I will be really pleased.#*

I know its not a huge amount of miles, and some folk will be able to get 20 to 25 000 miles from their tyres, but for a performance car (and a heavy one at that)
I don't think that's too bad.

Anyway my point.....

I do now definitely think that Regen does indeed accelerate tyre wear, especially on level 3, which I am on permanently.

I suppose it makes perfect sense when you think about it.

(Well it does if you are using Regen on level 3)

Just one example of this is, coming up to a roundabout from a NSL road, and leaving it really late to come off the throttle or disconnecting ACC.

This will give an excellent braking effect without touching the brakes, and you can (usually) just smoothly pick up the throttle and carry on without bothering the brake pedal at all.

The drag created in the Regen phase, is obviously coming from the tyres contact with the tarmac, which in turn will increase tyre wear.

It just has too.

I wasn't really convinced about arguments that have been had on here, saying just that, but after inspecting my rubber this past week, and considering how I drive the car, then this really must be true.

Yes, I occasionally drive her hard.

Yes, I will give her the berries in the twistys.

And Yes, she is putting approximately 475kg into each contact patch.

But I reckon 97% of my miles are sensible and mechanically sympathetic. (Stop laughing Tony)

So on reflection, tyres cost more than brake pads, so I really should use less Regen and more brakes.

If only MG brake pads were a sensible price, which at the moment they are not,
then I would probably opt for Regen 1 all the time.

EDIT.
Yes, of course the action of braking itself will cause wear on the tyres, but surely to a lesser extent than the Regen?

What say ye?

#* Pending the rejection outcome.

 

[MG Clive]

Good observations mate, but I'm not sure how this confirms or proves the statement, you'd have to continue on regen3 to the end of the life of these tyres, then go through the next set driving exactly the same, but using regen1, then compare the mileage, otherwise I don't see it.
I'm not saying regen doesn't increase tyre wear, I'm just saying I don't think you've proved it one way or the other.

 

[Bricktop X PWR]

Agreed m8.

Not really trying to prove anything pal.

Just the ramblings of an old giffer.

I fully intend to do as you have suggested next time, but not entirely sure the results from my Taycan or Ioniq 5N will translate!

We will see....

 

[jamherber]

If you are needing to slow down then if this is not done by regen braking, it would need to be completed via regular friction braking so at best, you may be transferring some of the wear to the front tyres but overall, the wear across the whole set of tyres would be the same, Shirley?

Our x-power is much better on its tyre wear then our Tesla model 3 which would chew through a set of rear PS4’s in ~12k miles.

 

[Jamesrr]

(Quite Long, Dont Read if you are time poor)

I did, so to save everyone else I can summarise ... No.

I was fairly alarmed recently at the rate my X Power is consuming its rubber.

Then slow down.

... I suppose it makes perfect sense when you think about it.

No. None whatsoever, well the "Regen" causing "more" tyre wear bit. To avoid excessive tyre wear see point 1

The drag created in the Regen phase, is obviously coming from the tyres contact with the tarmac, which in turn will increase tyre wear.

Well if you mean the resistive force is actualized by the tyre grip on the tarmac as the wheels rotational speed is arrested via the braking action, then yes.
Whether this force is generated via a conventional disc brake or the regenerative function of the electric motor is irrelevant.

It just has too.

Most examiners don't assign a lot of value to this argument.

Yes, I occasionally drive her hard.

Occasionally the truth comes out

So on reflection, tyres cost more than brake pads, so I really should use less Regen and more brakes.

No, you shouldn't drive the car so hard, but where's the fun in that?
You should rejoice that you aren't chewing through brake pads and rotors.

Yes, of course the action of braking itself will cause wear on the tyres, but surely to a lesser extent than the Regen?

No.

What say ye?

You didn't buy the car to be bored. Enjoy it

 

[Doug C]

I don't think regen 1 will use less actual regen than 3. If you need to slow down a certain amount to take a roundabout or bend, or traffic, then you will need to slow down by the same amount, no matter what your regen setting is on. As soon as you touch the brake, regen is activated, by how much depends on how hard you press the anchor pedal. So if you're approaching the roundabout on a nsl dual carriageway, then instead of just removing throttle and relying on regen to slow you down, you'll be on the brake pedal activating the regen to the level you would if it was set on 3? This is assuming the actual brakes only activate once you exceed a certain amount of pressure on the pedal. I personally have taken to using level 1 regen as I feel this is overall more efficient and my brake lights aren't being activated at every slight release of the throttle pedal. The regen on level 1 is only -4% and if I come off the throttle and don't need the brake pedal, then I assume I am saving energy by avoiding the losses of the regen system as it is not 100% efficient. I've read that the regen is anywhere between 60 to 70% efficient, so if you don't use it unnecessarily, then that's 30 - 40% of wasted energy saved. This obviously requires better anticipation due to lower use if the regen. In this case, your tyre wear will be much reduced. It sounds like an Xpower may be wasted on me by reading this, but at my last service, it was reported that my rear tyres were at 3 5mm and the fronts at 4mm with 9500 miles on them (original Bridgestone turanzas), similar to Bricktops, and I can attest, that on occasions, he does not spare the beans!
Must say, I'm still enjoying my totally vibe free Xpower, no matter what the tyre pressures are.

 

[salty]

I don't think regen 1 will use less actual regen than 3. If you need to slow down a certain amount to take a roundabout or bend, or traffic, then you will need to slow down by the same amount, no matter what your regen setting is on. As soon as you touch the brake, regen is activated, by how much depends on how hard you press the anchor pedal. So if you're approaching the roundabout on a nsl dual carriageway, then instead of just removing throttle and relying on regen to slow you down, you'll be on the brake pedal activating the regen to the level you would if it was set on 3? This is assuming the actual brakes only activate once you exceed a certain amount of pressure on the pedal. I personally have taken to using level 1 regen as I feel this is overall more efficient and my brake lights aren't being activated at every slight release of the throttle pedal. The regen on level 1 is only -4% and if I come off the throttle and don't need the brake pedal, then I assume I am saving energy by avoiding the losses of the regen system as it is not 100% efficient. I've read that the regen is anywhere between 60 to 70% efficient, so if you don't use it unnecessarily, then that's 30 - 40% of wasted energy saved. This obviously requires better anticipation due to lower use if the regen. In this case, your tyre wear will be much reduced. It sounds like an Xpower may be wasted on me by reading this, but at my last service, it was reported that my rear tyres were at 3 5mm and the fronts at 4mm with 9500 miles on them (original Bridgestone turanzas), similar to Bricktops, and I can attest, that on occasions, he does not spare the beans!
Must say, I'm still enjoying my totally vibe free Xpower, no matter what the tyre pressures are.

.
WOW, Doug. That's the most I've ever heard you speak.

 

[salty]

But I reckon 97% of my miles are sensible and mechanically sympathetic. (Stop laughing Tony)

Sorry, Chris. I did try, honestly, but....

 

[OriginalBigAl]

Is it also the fact you live in Welsh Wales with hills and more twisties than say Lincolnshire? The landscape around me is similar and I,m not expecting the mileage that others are experiencing, from the current boots on mine. I see you have tried hobnailing yours,....... doesn't work!!!!

 

[decrep]

Personally, especially the way I drive, using OPD, I slow down very gradually, power meter 0-6 on average.
In my ice car I come off the throttle and cruise to the lights but have to brake fairly hard at the end.
I suspect this short hard braking is harder on the tires than a gradual slow down.
I think I wear my tires more by cornering fast.

I think an Xpower, used the way it was designed, is always going to be hard on tires.

 

[Ian Key]

Another factor is the power distribution between front and rear wheels. I assume more power during acceleration goes to the rear wheels causing more tyre wear.

 

[Bricktop X PWR]

Another factor is the power distribution between front and rear wheels. I assume more power during acceleration goes to the rear wheels causing more tyre wear.

In Normal mode certainly.
Sport mode and with hard acceleration (4wd) over the life of my tyres has probably only been engaged for 5 to 10 percent of the time.

Might be much less that that to be fair.

 

[MG Clive]

Another factor is the power distribution between front and rear wheels. I assume more power during acceleration goes to the rear wheels causing more tyre wear.

Yes I'd agree with this, with a bigger motor at the back, the Xpower is predominantly, and in some situations only rear wheel drive, so the rear tyres are bound to get more hammer. That being said, this probably doesn't apply to the way @Bricktop X PWR drives.

 

[Jamesrr]

Another factor is the power distribution between front and rear wheels. I assume more power during acceleration goes to the rear wheels causing more tyre wear.

And I assume more of the Regen braking is via the rear wheels too given the rear motor is more powerful than the front.
I found my rear wheels locked this afternoon when I was noodling around some unsealed tracks while taking my 77 for a sightseeing trip today.
Very low speed stuff but it made sense given the 77 (and all the other MG4s) are rear wheel drive only.
Might also explain why they beefed up the front disc brakes on our 18" wheeled versions?
No Regen on the front wheels presumably.

 

[Doug C]

I guess the advantage of changing the tyres in one go is that you can try a different tyre and have them all the same.
I'll probably just change the rears at 1.6mm. Then the fronts when it's their turn. Maybe it's the ocd in me, but I like my pressure sensors in the correct wheel position. I'm tempted to try some Falkens, not too expensive, and very grippy. At least they are on my 911, and the rears aren't compatible on the fronts on that car! Also, the latest development of falkens (520's I think) are 10% lighter than the old 510's. The tyre fitter commented on how light they felt. I like less unsprung weight.

 

[siteguru]

Remember also that the stock tyres on the MG4 have a shallower tread depth from new than tyres we may all have been used to previously. (Some say this is to help reduce tyre noise, by making the tread blocks shallower so that they flex less). Therefore tyre life will likely be less than what we may have been used to in previous ICE cars.

 

[jamherber]

And I assume more of the Regen braking is via the rear wheels too given the rear motor is more powerful than the front.
I found my rear wheels locked this afternoon when I was noodling around some unsealed tracks while taking my 77 for a sightseeing trip today.
Very low speed stuff but it made sense given the 77 (and all the other MG4s) are rear wheel drive only.
Might also explain why they beefed up the front disc brakes on our 18" wheeled versions?
No Regen on the front wheels presumably.

X-Power only has regen braking from the rear motor - none from the front motor.

 

[Jamesrr]

Remember also that the stock tyres on the MG4 have a shallower tread depth from new than tyres we may ....

Also remember that the tyres you get are dependent on the geographic region you are in.

 

[JonnyG]

............I fully intend to do as you have suggested next time, but not entirely sure the results from my Taycan or Ioniq 5N will translate!

We will see....

Slightly off topic but it's interesting that the Porsche Taycan does not have any regen settings afaik. All (or nearly all) the regen is done through braking (and quite a lot !!).

Source : Google AI summary :-

"Porsche claiming that around 90% of everyday braking can be done solely through electric recuperation, meaning the car recovers a significant amount of energy through the electric motors when braking, minimizing the need for traditional hydraulic brakes in most driving situations"

 

[Jamesrr]

Slightly off topic but it's interesting that the Porsche Taycan does not have any regen settings afaik. All (or nearly all) the regen is done through braking (and quite a lot !!).

Source : Google AI summary :-

"Porsche claiming that around 90% of everyday braking can be done solely through electric recuperation, meaning the car recovers a significant amount of energy through the electric motors when braking, minimizing the need for traditional hydraulic brakes in most driving situations"

The AI Overview


The Porsche Taycan's regenerative braking system, also known as recuperation, converts kinetic energy from braking into electricity to recharge the battery.
This can increase the car's range by up to 30%.

How it works

When the driver presses the brake pedal, the electric motors switch to generation mode.
The electric machines act as generators, slowing down the car and storing the power in the battery.
The amount of energy that can be recovered depends on the speed at which the car is braking.

Benefits

Extended range: Regenerative braking can increase the range of the car.
Reduced wear and tear: Regenerative braking reduces the need to use the friction brakes, which can make them last longer.
One-pedal driving: Some cars with regenerative braking have one-pedal driving systems, which allow the driver to stop the car without using the brake pedal.
Adjusting the settings
The Taycan's recuperation settings can be adjusted using the Porsche communication manager.
This video can also help you learn more about the regenerative braking in the Porsche Taycan: