Solar and house battery installation

[johnb80]

Don't have that channel on my TV


I have just joined Octopus Go. Some people suggested Octopus Intelligent but my MG ZS EV and the Easee One charger are not currently compatible with this tariff but I estimate that if I use a home battery storage, it should save me around £1100 in a year at the current Go prices. The tariff has been lowered to 30.60p /day and 9.5p /4 hours a night.

Yep, I predicted huge savings and having run the system for a year I can confidently say I was right, I have saved loads.

 

[Gomev]

The new lower peak prices extend the payback period compared to before. Now of course it's not all about payback, some things we do because it's just right or any number of other reasons. However it is a factor.
Using back of fag packet arithmetic a £5000 battery only setup and on the Go tariff would require
£5000 cost of setup / 20p (the difference in peak and off-peak) = 25,000 kWh of usage to make the payback.
Everybodies usage is different, but mine is low only approx. 5 per day so for the sake of ease call it 2000 per year. So my payback would take 12 and a half years.

Before the 1st July price drop it would have been approx 8 and a half years.

Still worthwhile for those that are medium or high users but becoming uneconomical for me now.

 

[DBedford]

The new lower peak prices extend the payback period compared to before. Now of course it's not all about payback, some things we do because it's just right or any number of other reasons. However it is a factor.
Using back of fag packet arithmetic a £5000 battery only setup and on the Go tariff would require
£5000 cost of setup / 20p (the difference in peak and off-peak) = 25,000 kWh of usage to make the payback.
Everybodies usage is different, but mine is low only approx. 5 per day so for the sake of ease call it 2000 per year. So my payback would take 12 and a half years.

Before the 1st July price drop it would have been approx 8 and a half years.

Still worthwhile for those that are medium or high users but becoming uneconomical for me now.

Agree completely Gomer, same with us.

 

[Gadget Geek]

I look at it as a long term, variable rate savings account. The savings on electricity outperforms any savings account. OK, you don't get your capital back at the end of the period, but it does keep saving you money.

So, you can lock your money away in an account and get 3% back each month, or buy solar and a battery and get 4 to 5% back.

 

[DBedford]

I look at it as a long term, variable rate savings account. The savings on electricity outperforms any savings account. OK, you don't get your capital back at the end of the period, but it does keep saving you money.

So, you can lock your money away in an account and get 3% back each month, or buy solar and a battery and get 4 to 5% back.

The difference is in a savings account you still have your capital. At Raisin UK the top savings rate is not 6.01%.

 

[johnb80]

The new lower peak prices extend the payback period compared to before. Now of course it's not all about payback, some things we do because it's just right or any number of other reasons. However it is a factor.
Using back of fag packet arithmetic a £5000 battery only setup and on the Go tariff would require
£5000 cost of setup / 20p (the difference in peak and off-peak) = 25,000 kWh of usage to make the payback.
Everybodies usage is different, but mine is low only approx. 5 per day so for the sake of ease call it 2000 per year. So my payback would take 12 and a half years.

Before the 1st July price drop it would have been approx 8 and a half years.

Still worthwhile for those that are medium or high users but becoming uneconomical for me now.

I suppose it's your viewpoint, for me i'd rather invest in the batteries and solar etc rather than pay out to the energy companies. If break even takes 10 years or whatever, at the end of 10 years I have solar and batteries and can reap the rewards, compared to a pile of bills and an empty bank account. Investment in a property of this sort should improve the sales price too, in the event of you not being around to see the breakeven so your offspring would benefit too.

I look at it as a long term, variable rate savings account. The savings on electricity outperforms any savings account. OK, you don't get your capital back at the end of the period, but it does keep saving you money.

So, you can lock your money away in an account and get 3% back each month, or buy solar and a battery and get 4 to 5% back.

Or more, its also forecast for energy prices to rise again this coming winter.

I'm around1/3 of the way to my break even and regret nothing.

The difference is in a savings account you still have your capital.

And if you have solar / batteries you have the equipment adding value to your property.

 

[Gadget Geek]

The difference is in a savings account you still have your capital. At Raisin UK the top savings rate is not 6.01%.

In a solar/battery set up, they are your capital and continue saving you money.

 

[1MGEVUSER]

I am seriously considering the battery installation. The only problem I have is to find a good, reliable, dependable and fairly priced electrician to carry out the work. Until this happens, I and possibly many other potential costumers will be put off having the Solar/Battery installation/s.

 

[johnb80]

I am seriously considering the battery installation. The only problem I have is to find a good, reliable, dependable and fairly priced electrician to carry out the work. Until this happens, I and possibly many other potential costumers will be put off having the Solar/Battery installation/s.

Rather than asking for a battery install quote, ask for a 32 - 50 amp feed for an inverter, the rest you can easily do yourself, theyre just plug and play.

 

[1MGEVUSER]

Doesn't the work need to be signed off after the battery and inverter has been installed? Also contacting the DNO and filling the G99 paperwork?

I assume that the maximum current to supply the inverter would need to be 32A, as the EV charger is 32A and if the cooker, tumble dryer and kettle are on might be pushing towards the 100A limit? I am no electrician so i not sure of the rating needed for the installation.

The battery and the Victron inverter seem easy to setup thought.

There is a video on YouTube that mentioned a problem with the Victron Multipluss inverter regarding some recent issues with UK compliance (first it was compliant, some time later it wasn't), but I am not sure if that has been resolved. I'll see if I can find the footage and post a link on here.

 

[tsedge]

The new lower peak prices extend the payback period compared to before. Now of course it's not all about payback, some things we do because it's just right or any number of other reasons. However it is a factor.
Using back of fag packet arithmetic a £5000 battery only setup and on the Go tariff would require
£5000 cost of setup / 20p (the difference in peak and off-peak) = 25,000 kWh of usage to make the payback.
Everybodies usage is different, but mine is low only approx. 5 per day so for the sake of ease call it 2000 per year. So my payback would take 12 and a half years.

Before the 1st July price drop it would have been approx 8 and a half years.

Still worthwhile for those that are medium or high users but becoming uneconomical for me now.

Don't forget the batteries and associated electronics are usually only good for 10 years, so this is not great. Solar Panels can last 25 years (with degradation) but the inverters will typically need replacing several times for that lifespan.

We are planning to move in 2 years so not going to waste money on batteries or solar. They would not add to our house value as we are already at the ceiling price in our street (according to the estate agent).

When we move, I'll reassess if it is the best use of capital or not. A 5 year repayment period would be a no brainer but at longer ones I'll need to consider carefully if it is worth it - investing in such a system will lock us into that property for the long term.

 

[Gadget Geek]

I am seriously considering the battery installation. The only problem I have is to find a good, reliable, dependable and fairly priced electrician to carry out the work. Until this happens, I and possibly many other potential costumers will be put off having the Solar/Battery installation/s.

You can use this website and select electrical to find an electrician.

Find local tradespeople on MyBuilder. Post your job online to get instant quotes near you.

Need a recommended builder or tradesperson near you? Post your job to connect with local experts, review feedback, compare quotes and hire your favourite to get the job done.

www.mybuilder.com

 

[johnb80]

Doesn't the work need to be signed off after the battery and inverter has been installed? Also contacting the DNO and filling the G99 paperwork?

The g99 paperwork is easily completed and can be done by anyone. DNO wont be bothered if youre not exporting to the grid.

I assume that the maximum current to supply the inverter would need to be 32A, as the EV charger is 32A and if the cooker, tumble dryer and kettle are on might be pushing towards the 100A limit? I am no electrician so i not sure of the rating needed for the installation.

It's unlikely that you will approach the 100A even with the extreme example mentioned. Even if you exceed the 100 amp supply, the fuse takes a long time to blow, 200 amps for example it takes 10 minutes!

I'm not suggesting for a minute that you overload your system but the relatively short time the kettle is boiling and the oven is heating up and the tumble dryer taking full load wouldn't be sustained anyway so you have little to worry about.

The battery and the Victron inverter seem easy to setup thought.

It's fairly straight forward, there are pre-sets for the various battery chemistry's.

There is a video on YouTube that mentioned a problem with the Victron Multipluss inverter regarding some recent issues with UK compliance (first it was compliant, some time later it wasn't), but I am not sure if that has been resolved. I'll see if I can find the footage and post a link on here.

The UK moved the goalposts and Victron didnt submit their paperwork quick enough, the inverter itself was compliant, just not the paperwork. It has all been resolved now and Victron is fully compliant.

 

[johnb80]

Don't forget the batteries and associated electronics are usually only good for 10 years, so this is not great.

EVE cells 6000 cycles, a cycle is fully charged to fully discharged, partial cycles = partial cycle count. End of life is deemed to be when the cell drops to 80% capacity.
6000 full cycles = 16.43 years, normal operation averages around 70% of a cycle so the predicted life of the cells becomes 23.5 years BUT even at that point the cells arent dead, the 32 kWh capacity they had when new has dropped to 25.6 kWh. So batteries are good.

Electronics lasting 10 years, utter tosh, a well designed robust inverter like Victron will go on for many years. Check around the marine and leisure industry forums to see how long they last.

Solar Panels can last 25 years (with degradation) but the inverters will typically need replacing several times for that lifespan.

This really applies to much older inverters that aren't as efficient as the latest designs. The older ones created a dramatic amount of heat, were often in harsh environments and failed in 10 to 15 years. Things have moved on now, new inverters are very efficient, both my Growatt and Victron are >95% therefore have losses totalling 500w between them which is easily dissipated by the substantial heatsinks that they both have.

We are planning to move in 2 years so not going to waste money on batteries or solar. They would not add to our house value as we are already at the ceiling price in our street (according to the estate agent).

But what creates the 'ceiling price'? Surely it's the house with the best specification / condition. A house with a good energy performance thats head and shoulders above the rest will surely raise the ceiling price?

When we move, I'll reassess if it is the best use of capital or not. A 5 year repayment period would be a no brainer but at longer ones I'll need to consider carefully if it is worth it - investing in such a system will lock us into that property for the long term.

Just doing a battery system would not lock you into a property, it can easly be moved to another property if the new people arent so forward thinking / energy savvy.

 

[1MGEVUSER]

Thank you @johnb80. You are a fountain of detailed information, I appreciate that.

 

[tsedge]

EVE cells 6000 cycles, a cycle is fully charged to fully discharged, partial cycles = partial cycle count. End of life is deemed to be when the cell drops to 80% capacity.
6000 full cycles = 16.43 years, normal operation averages around 70% of a cycle so the predicted life of the cells becomes 23.5 years BUT even at that point the cells arent dead, the 32 kWh capacity they had when new has dropped to 25.6 kWh. So batteries are good.

Cycle time depends on usage, so varies from property to property. We use many times the 'average' annual household electricity usages, so could be considerably lower lifespan. It also depends what you spend on the batteries - more cycles, costs more. There is not a standard one size fits all.

Electronics lasting 10 years, utter tosh, a well designed robust inverter like Victron will go on for many years. Check around the marine and leisure industry forums to see how long they last.

They are warrantied for 10 years. They may last longer, and they may not. There are plenty of people who have had to replace theirs.

This really applies to much older inverters that aren't as efficient as the latest designs. The older ones created a dramatic amount of heat, were often in harsh environments and failed in 10 to 15 years. Things have moved on now, new inverters are very efficient, both my Growatt and Victron are >95% therefore have losses totalling 500w between them which is easily dissipated by the substantial heatsinks that they both have.

That's good to hear that lifespan is increasing, but I still have to consider the warranty period as the lifespan for proper cost accounting. If they extend the warranties, that's great. I would also point out that high-end inverters do cost more, so it isn't getting something for nothing.

But what creates the 'ceiling price'? Surely it's the house with the best specification / condition. A house with a good energy performance thats head and shoulders above the rest will surely raise the ceiling price?

People will only pay a certain amount above the average house price in the area for the same size house. We have been advised that our house is already the nicest in the street and will set a new ceiling price and spending more on it may increase saleability but will not increase the value.

Just doing a battery system would not lock you into a property, it can easly be moved to another property if the new people arent so forward thinking / energy savvy.

It can't be easily moved - it requires electrical work, transporting the heavy batteries and redoing the new house's system which may not have the same layout, cabling will probably be different. Yes, it can be done, but trying to coordinate alongside a house move is not something I want to bother with.

I appreciate your enthusiasm in this, but my mind is made up (after considerable research).

 

[Hotlush]

The g99 paperwork is easily completed and can be done by anyone. DNO wont be bothered if youre not exporting to the grid.

One thing to keep in mind though, if you go the DIY route, is you're unlikely to get an MCS certificate and without that you won't get on an export tariff.

 

[Bluesparky]

One thing to keep in mind though, if you go the DIY route, is you're unlikely to get an MCS certificate and without that you won't get on an export tariff.

export tarriff is not worth the extra money to go MCS if you can install yourself, I installed a 5kw system, cost less than £4000, payback is less than 2 years, yes I give some back to the grid occasionally but will install batteries now you can get 10kw storage system that will pay for itself in under 4years.

Hi there,

All things being equal we should have our EV charging point installed by British Gas in the next few weeks and take receipt of our MG ZS. LRT. ( EV charging point may not be the best, but it’s what we are getting ?)

We are considering solar panels and a house battery once we move to BG’s EV tariff.

We generally consume 2700kWh/ year , typical none- washing appliance use day 7-8kWh. I’m thinking of a 3-4kW possible 10 panel installation , 5 on each face. With a 10kWh battery.

Our house is tiles facing ENE. We are in Buckinghamshire.

We have both just by retired (65) , and may move in the next few years, depending on what adult children wish to do. Should we start small and upgraded with time or no bother due to possible payback period?, so many questions.
Could anyone provide guidance on who to speak for a quote and the pros and cons of such installation.

I thank anyone we can assist, as at the moment we have a wide range of prices from a host of suppliers, and a thumping head ache??.

not sure you will get the most from a solar panel install if they are facing ENE

 

[Gadget Geek]

EVE cells 6000 cycles, a cycle is fully charged to fully discharged, partial cycles = partial cycle count. End of life is deemed to be when the cell drops to 80% capacity.

My 8kWh battery was only giving 6kWh after 3 years. I contacted the company and made a warranty claim, which they ignored. I downloaded a complaint letter from Martin Lewis's website and cited the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and got a phone call from the CEO of the company.

After 3 years, the battery had become obsolete (which was probably why they were trying to ignore me and hoping I'd go away). The upshot is, they offered me compensation for the missing capacity I'd had to pay for on the electricity bill, or a discounted upgrade to a new 12kWh battery with new 10 year warranty. (Guess which one I went for)

 

[Jomarkh]

My 8kWh battery was only giving 6kWh after 3 years. I contacted the company and made a warranty claim, which they ignored. I downloaded a complaint letter from Martin Lewis's website and cited the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and got a phone call from the CEO of the company.

After 3 years, the battery had become obsolete (which was probably why they were trying to ignore me and hoping I'd go away). The upshot is, they offered me compensation for the missing capacity I'd had to pay for on the electricity bill, or a discounted upgrade to a new 12kWh battery with new 10 year warranty. (Guess which one I went for)

What discount did they give you?