Which is Cheaper ICE or EV it depends how things have changed

[Les burrows]

 

[smokie]

It isn't all about cost for some.

 

[BugEyed]

The obvious solution is to raise much needed tax revenue by reinstating the "fuel price escalator/fuel price stabiliser" and including the deferred rises from previous years.

 

[Lovemyev]

If you are totally reliant on public chargers and covering a lot of miles, then maybe an EV is not a great choice now, unless cost is not your primary reason of course.
But charging from home even with the increased cost of electric, is still a lot cheaper than fossil fuel.
When I received my energy bill last week, for the last six months, I nearly passed out ?.
But after I had finished crying ? I decided to work out what my fossil fuel costs would have been for that 6 month period.
Then I felt a little happier all of a sudden.
Our ZS EV is about 10 months old and we have covered almost 9,000 miles.
Quick bit of “Man Maths” to convert this almost 9,000 mileages into a fossil car with an average of 40 Mpg and the running costs in fuel alone was frightening !.
Can’t remember the actual figure, be we were talking four figures !.

 

[slmorgan42]

I am someone who cannot charge at home and relies on public charging.

Below is my fuel cost savings but there is also savings in street parking permit, road tax, congestion zone and not forgetting clean air

I know some of these savings will disappear in the future but at the moment I saving around £2k a year compared to old vehicle.

Based on my old vehicle this is the difference in fuel costs:
It is based on me getting 3.1 kw/m and diesel currently being £1.70 near me.
In the summer the kw/m should get better and I should see more savings.
The 30p is for a 22kw charger.

Diesel cost / L	£1.70​		Elec/KWH	£0.30​
M/G	32​		M/KWH	3.1​
M/L	7​
Cost per mile	£0.24​		Cost per mile	£0.10​

 

[Les burrows]

Hi simorgan42 nice breakdown above and I see you have just about coved everything of the costs to drive in London, some of these cost are slowly coming to other city’s in the UK Birmingham and Manchester to name just 2 but others will follow over the next few years and that will certainly make a much bigger demand for full EVs I think.
Les

 

[smokie]

I had to replace an engine once, and I scrapped another car when the engne failed.

 

[Les burrows]

Both have advantages and disadvantages. The charging of electric vehicles is not expensive, the replacement of batteries is expensive, and the gasoline used for fuel vehicles is expensive, but there is no need to replace batteries

Against failure the batteries are warranted for 8 yrs and the are many leafs for one still driving around on the same battery that are 12 or more years old so lm not even worried about my batteries.
Les

 

[horse7]

Wow electricity is so cheap in the UK, in Ireland domestic is around 40cent kWh all day and if you use a cheaper night rate plan you are charged more for your daytime electricity.

 

[Lovemyev]

if you use a cheaper night rate plan you are charged more for your daytime electricity.

It’s the same in the U.K. if you are on a time of day ( off peak tariff ).
The day rate can be WAY more expensive !.
The days of cheap energy has long gone and set never to return to them levels, I don’t believe.
Opting for a time of day ( off peak rate ) works IF you can take full advantage of the cheaper ( 5 ish ) hours.
Many people looking to slide as much of their usage ( EV charging / washing machine usage / immersion heaters / storage batteries etc etc ) into that cheaper rate.
I am currently on a fixed deal until next year that gives me 5 hours at 4.5p/ kWh but my day rate is 40p/KWh and that is now regarded as a reasonable deal, as prices have increase again since we where offered this deal !.

 

[smokie]

I can't see how the companies can justify not reducing tariffs at some point. Wholesale electricity (and more so gas) prices have been in decline for ages now.

I feel we've been somewhat brainwashed into expecting a rise.

 

[Les burrows]

I can't see how the companies can justify not reducing tariffs at some point. Wholesale electricity (and more so gas) prices have been in decline for ages now.

I feel we've been somewhat brainwashed into expecting a rise.

I Totally agree but this is what happens when every there a change in energy or fuel prices, be it a war like what’s happen now or like next week a budget, the price goes up almost instantaneously, I remember many times in past budgets 15:00 hrs the budget statment would be made on it would say 5p to go on fuel at 18:00 hrs and the queues at the petrol stations would be massive but when it was the other way perhaps 2p off that would take weeks befor you and I saw it at the pumps nothing has change an probably never will no matter who is in office.
Les

 

[LeoRBK]

I am someone who cannot charge at home and relies on public charging.

Below is my fuel cost savings but there is also savings in street parking permit, road tax, congestion zone and not forgetting clean air

I know some of these savings will disappear in the future but at the moment I saving around £2k a year compared to old vehicle.

Based on my old vehicle this is the difference in fuel costs:
It is based on me getting 3.1 kw/m and diesel currently being £1.70 near me.
In the summer the kw/m should get better and I should see more savings.
The 30p is for a 22kw charger.

Diesel cost / L	£1.70​		Elec/KWH	£0.30​
M/G	32​		M/KWH	3.1​
M/L	7​
Cost per mile	£0.24​		Cost per mile	£0.10​

Good comparison and I can support this data. My energy plan is at 33p/kWh. Home charging works cheaper.
Driving on public charging works the roughly the same as my old diesel. There are moderns diesels which would halve your cost to what is quoted above. But I have discovered that driving with cleaner air and a clean conscience has started to matter a lot more.

 

[ger]

I’m also on the 4.5p night 5 hour until next year. I also have sola panels which I make use of most days. but after an overnight charge I went on a round trip off 200ml approx which then cost 75p /kWh about £30.As stated earlier electric cost are falling fast now but I’ll bet that the EV charging companies will not drop their prices. All EV owners should look at home chargers in order to benefit.

 

[smokie]

...except many are in flats, or too far from the house, or don't own the property - there's a whole range of reasons which prevents people having home chargers. And if you say one costs about (say) £800 you'd need to do a fair few miles before it paid for itself, in money terms if not time and convenience.

 

[Les burrows]

It’s a very difficult one this for some it can work having an EV for others it never will, its not just about the charging of the EV the cost of one plus the cost and the feasibility of a home charging point in the first place is not viable in the first place for many so it’s what people can afford that is really going to effect what people buy and drive.
Les

 

[Lovemyev]

I think it's been commonly excepted by the majority of people now, that after the huge rise in energy costs, that EV 's can STILL work out more economical BUT only for the lucky folks who are in the fortunate enough position, to have access too off street parking and can charge their cars from a home energy supply or at their place of work maybe.
Prior to the massive prices in energy costs of public charging, I have always been a great admirer of the courage of people, who go out a purchase an EV in clear the knowledge that they are totally reliant on the public charging infrastructure, I raise my hat as you are extremely brave set of people.
The huge price increases to use these public EV facilities, has come as a massive punch in the gut's for these folks.
Yes - We all never really expected them to be free for ever, but neither did we expect the prices to increase to the level they have reached recently.
I do see why some reluctant EV owners would now consider switching back to a fossil car in some usage cases, because the running cost saving on an EV have been significantly eroded.
EV's really jumped in popularity in a very short time scale, when the price of fossil fuel went through the roof a while back.
The huge increase in EV popularity, pretty much signed the death warrant for the continuation of any grants / sweeteners and incentives to entice people to make the switch over to EV's.
Applying VED duty to EV's was just another cost saving advantaged removed.
EV adoption now is more expensive than it's ever been and with the huge increase in public charging prices, fighting the corner for an EV over a fossil has clearly become harder fight.
The ability to charge from home changes the whole demographic.

 

[smokie]

Absolutely.

But I'd add that there is a small but growing number of people who will buy a car not for it's economy but for it's greenness. Mainly younger I think, but you see it in many things, where people are happy to pay something of a premium for an ethically sound or environmentally friendly product.

Us oldies (- I understand that fits the bill for many here!! - ) may have in the past called them the tree huggers but in reality unless something is done for the environment, and done quickly, there isn't a particularly rosy future for our children and their children.

EVs may not be ideal personal transportation vehicles but they are best we've got right now, even though they aren't for everyone, for all kinds of reasons (sometimes a bit spurious).

 

[mailmannz]

If you are totally reliant on public chargers and covering a lot of miles, then maybe an EV is not a great choice now, unless cost is not your primary reason of course.
But charging from home even with the increased cost of electric, is still a lot cheaper than fossil fuel.
When I received my energy bill last week, for the last six months, I nearly passed out ?.
But after I had finished crying ? I decided to work out what my fossil fuel costs would have been for that 6 month period.
Then I felt a little happier all of a sudden.
Our ZS EV is about 10 months old and we have covered almost 9,000 miles.
Quick bit of “Man Maths” to convert this almost 9,000 mileages into a fossil car with an average of 40 Mpg and the running costs in fuel alone was frightening !.
Can’t remember the actual figure, be we were talking four figures !.

I put the cost of charging the car in to a separate account and pay that at the end of the month on my power bill. No surprises that way plus I know what I’m spending electricity wise too.

 

[Ruislip Resident]

After 2030 there shoukd be quite servere tax penalties for using an ICE car. That gives prople plenty of time to save up to change. After 2030 being skint should not give someone a free pass to pollute.