New wall charger location

[Michael Holt]

I would like a charger installing in my garage and one of the questions I need to answer is how far from the main fuse box will it be. I have power in the garage already with a small fuse box, however, I assume that as it's not the "main" fuse box this will not be ok to use to connect the charger to. This would be a pity as the location is around 12 metres from the house fuse box and would also involve a trench digging (I think) all adding to the cost. Does anyone know if the garage fuse box would be ok to use?

 

[biffo]

I'm not an electrician.

Depending on what sort of cable is running from the consumer unit to your garage - then maybe but unlikely.

A 7kW charger will need a 32A cable (according to google) so generally this is a dedicated cable wired into a spare slot in your existing consumer unit, or a new dedicated mini consumer unit added (wired off the tails from the meter in the same way as the main unit).

Some of the chargers can throttle themselves based on load or be set to a maximum capacity - so if the cable is a lower capacity and the charger is set to use this lower charge rate that matches and doesn't overload the cable, then technically it could use the garage circuit but whether any electrician would be happy doing this, I'm doubtful.

 

[Michael Holt]

I'm not an electrician.

Depending on what sort of cable is running from the consumer unit to your garage - then maybe but unlikely.

A 7kW charger will need a 32A cable (according to google) so generally this is a dedicated cable wired into a spare slot in your existing consumer unit, or a new dedicated mini consumer unit added (wired off the tails from the meter in the same way as the main unit).

Some of the chargers can throttle themselves based on load or be set to a maximum capacity - so if the cable is a lower capacity and the charger is set to use this lower charge rate that matches and doesn't overload the cable, then technically it could use the garage circuit but whether any electrician would be happy doing this, I'm doubtful.

Thanks for the quick reply Biffo. Yes I think you are probably right. I'm managing ok on the granny charger at the moment so might stick with that for now ??

 

[biffo]

Thanks for the quick reply Biffo. Yes I think you are probably right. I'm managing ok on the granny charger at the moment so might stick with that for now ??

You might find that you've already got a 32A cable going to garage, and that the fuse type that it's wired to is compatible with what a specific EV charger needs - and allows the throttling so as not to trip or overload any fuses/cables/circuits.

Try getting some quotes from local installers - you might get lucky and it'll all be viable, even if it's only for a 3.6kW charger ?‍

 

[jamesie]

I have exactly this set up.

There is a 32A supply from my house main board to my garage. The electrician installed a new board in the garage to allow a separate supply to the charger. I had a Zappi installed which has the ability to monitor usage and throttle back the charger if needed.

All works fine.

 

[Michael Holt]

I have exactly this set up.

There is a 32A supply from my house main board to my garage. The electrician installed a new board in the garage to allow a separate supply to the charger. I had a Zappi installed which has the ability to monitor usage and throttle back the charger if needed.

All works fine.

Interesting James. I guess there's no harm in asking around. Being a tight Yorkshireman however, the thought of having to prise open my wallet so soon after buying the car is my biggest hurdle ?

 

[biffo]

Interesting James. I guess there's no harm in asking around. Being a tight Yorkshireman however, the thought of having to prise open my wallet so soon after buying the car is my biggest hurdle ?

Must admit, the additional £250 grant in Scotland (or £350 if more remote) is pretty nice when looking at spending £500+ on a charger with the OZEV already applied.

 

[C6MFC]

Mine was connected directly to the house meter (outside box) via a RDC consumer unit (top right in picture) installed in the meter box not the inside house consumer unit. Its then only 2 meters of cable to the charger unit. Installation work took no time at all. Setting up the pod point to my wifi and getting it to programme a charge (off peak 5p per Kw rate with Octopus) and stay reliably sync'd took ages. Remember if its smart it has to have a very good, almost unbreakable wifi or mobile connection wherever you put the charger unit. I have upgraded my wifi to a MESH system to make sure it maintains its link.

 

[Kithmo]

Mine's also connected to the meter, not the fuse box, not sure if they can connect to the fuse box as it has it's own dedicated RCB.
FWIW, 40A was the standard rating of wires for ring mains, with a 30A fuse, back in the 80s with 15A or 10A wire (IIRC) and 5A fuse for lighting. The wire to your garage might be ok but the fuse or RCB may not be high enough.

 

[Lovemyev]

The meter box belongs to the property, but the space inside of the box belongs to the DNO would you believe !,
A lot of EV installers split the meter tails here and then run fresh new tails up to a new stand alone small consumer enclosure, just like the one in the picture.
I totally see why this option is generally used due to cost and time restraints.
However, this internal space is already reserved for use by the DNO and should not have ANY additional electrical equipment installed inside of this location !.
They want this space kept free for any future equipment upgrades, that is the official responce.
Not a lot of people are either aware of this fact or choose to avoid the guidance and continue to go ahead with installing additional equipment inside of meter boxes regardless.
I am not sure how well this type of infringement is policed by the DNO, but when they where pushed on this very subject.
The answer came back as :- NO this space in the meter box should NOT be used for installing ANY additional third party equipment.
The space inside of this meter box is reserved for their use only apparently !.
Be careful asking a question, because you may not get back the answer that you really really wanted.
This is a really good example of that type of thing.
Crazy that the box itself belongs to the property owner, but not the space inside of that box !.
Go figure that one out.
Even stranger that if your DNO fuse / meter and CU was mounted on the inside wall of your internal garage ( so no enclosed meter box is required, like in my case ) you can then mount an extra standalone enclosure just off to the side of the DNO equipment, then collect power for your wall box.
Totally bonkers situation !.
Oh - The middle “knockout” in that first Henley block, LOOKS like it has been removed and is therefore now a non compliance if that is indeed the case ?.
Just saying ?‍.

 

[C6MFC]

Very interesting.

My house meter was changed to a smart meter at the same time and no objections although the engineer who did that came second and did say he had tidied up the Pod Point installation including some plugging open blanks to make it comply with standards.
I wonder where this is in a legal statute. They could say they own the space but I would want to see the law or regulation (passed into the law of the land) or an exception within deeds to my property that made it unlawfull to put anything in the external power box.

Good spot and well worth knowing but where is it written in law all we have here is somebody at the DNO making a statement and they should be able to prove this on demand with some sort of lawfully binding legislation and or contract with the householder?

 

[biffo]

The meter box belongs to the property, but the space inside of the box belongs to the DNO would you believe !,
A lot of EV installers split the meter tails here and then run fresh new tails up to a new stand alone small consumer enclosure, just like the one in the picture.
I totally see why this option is generally used due to cost and time restraints.
However, this internal space is already reserved for use by the DNO and should not have ANY additional electrical equipment installed inside of this location !.
They want this space kept free for any future equipment upgrades, that is the official responce.
Not a lot of people are either aware of this fact or choose to avoid the guidance and continue to go ahead with installing additional equipment inside of meter boxes regardless.
I am not sure how well this type of infringement is policed by the DNO, but when they where pushed on this very subject.
The answer came back as :- NO this space in the meter box should NOT be used for installing ANY additional third party equipment.
The space inside of this meter box is reserved for their use only apparently !.
Be careful asking a question, because you may not get back the answer that you really really wanted.
This is a really good example of that type of thing.
Crazy that the box itself belongs to the property owner, but not the space inside of that box !.
Go figure that one out.
Even stranger that if your DNO fuse / meter and CU was mounted on the inside wall of your internal garage ( so no enclosed meter box is required, like in my case ) you can then mount an extra standalone enclosure just off to the side of the DNO equipment, then collect power for your wall box.
Totally bonkers situation !.
Oh - The middle “knockout” in that first Henley block, LOOKS like it has been removed and is therefore now a non compliance if that is indeed the case ?.
Just saying ?‍.

Coincidentally, I watched a YouTube video on this very subject just the other day.

 

[Lovemyev]

Very interesting.

My house meter was changed to a smart meter at the same time and no objections although the engineer who did that came second and did say he had tidied up the Pod Point installation including some plugging open blanks to make it comply with standards.
I wonder where this is in a legal statute. They could say they own the space but I would want to see the law or regulation (passed into the law of the land) or an exception within deeds to my property that made it unlawfull to put anything in the external power box.

Good spot and well worth knowing but where is it written in law all we have here is somebody at the DNO making a statement and they should be able to prove this on demand with some sort of lawfully binding legislation and or contract with the householder?

I think it is a “Rabbit Hole” that has been entered and found to be a lot deeper than many people expected.
Probably a case of the DNO knowing this type of thing was happening, but turned a blind eye to the situation.
But when people start asking for guidance regarding the subject and want an official answer, then be careful what you ask for !.
Let sleeping dogs lie, I think is the expression!.
I will try and find the short video that covered this subject and post it for anybody that finds this interesting ?.
This is NOT what EV installers or some of there customers would like to hear !.
It will increase cost and time installing EV units in a LOT of situations !.

 

[C6MFC]

Very good Biffo. I suppose the charging point sales/fitting organisations and the government need to make this clear. When applying for the grant you have to tick many boxes perhaps this restriction should be one of them? Still would like to see the written regulation that forbids this? in the clip its a suggestion from the DNO organisation where words like "should not" and similar are used where is the "MUST NOT" don't doubt its out there somewhere anyone found it?

 

[Lovemyev]

don't doubt its out there somewhere anyone found it?

People may not want to look ? to hard and kick up too much sand.
Sleeping dogs and all that !.

 

[C6MFC]

 

[C6MFC]

The meter box belongs to the property, but the space inside of the box belongs to the DNO would you believe !,
A lot of EV installers split the meter tails here and then run fresh new tails up to a new stand alone small consumer enclosure, just like the one in the picture.
I totally see why this option is generally used due to cost and time restraints.
However, this internal space is already reserved for use by the DNO and should not have ANY additional electrical equipment installed inside of this location !.
They want this space kept free for any future equipment upgrades, that is the official responce.
Not a lot of people are either aware of this fact or choose to avoid the guidance and continue to go ahead with installing additional equipment inside of meter boxes regardless.
I am not sure how well this type of infringement is policed by the DNO, but when they where pushed on this very subject.
The answer came back as :- NO this space in the meter box should NOT be used for installing ANY additional third party equipment.
The space inside of this meter box is reserved for their use only apparently !.
Be careful asking a question, because you may not get back the answer that you really really wanted.
This is a really good example of that type of thing.
Crazy that the box itself belongs to the property owner, but not the space inside of that box !.
Go figure that one out.
Even stranger that if your DNO fuse / meter and CU was mounted on the inside wall of your internal garage ( so no enclosed meter box is required, like in my case ) you can then mount an extra standalone enclosure just off to the side of the DNO equipment, then collect power for your wall box.
Totally bonkers situation !.
Oh - The middle “knockout” in that first Henley block, LOOKS like it has been removed and is therefore now a non compliance if that is indeed the case ?.
Just saying ?‍.

went and checked the "knock out" after reading your comment. Its there just that its Black and recessed inside and under the knock out hole? I suspect the engineer who fitted the smart meter did that with a spare he had when he said he has tidied up the Pod Point installation

 

[Lovemyev]

went and checked the "knock out" after reading your comment. Its there just that its Black and recessed inside and under the knock out hole? I suspect the engineer who fitted the smart meter did that with a spare he had when he said he has tidied up the Pod Point installation

Probably had another blank put into the blanking hole.
As long as it blanked off, it okay .

 

[C6MFC]

 

[Lovemyev]

?